Palivec
10 Aug 2012
Life / West-East life in Poland? [45]
How about this? Election results:
But for some reason noboday can draw the exact border between Poland A and Poland B
How about this? Election results:
Palivec
24 Jul 2012
Travel / Bent trees in Gryfino Poland.. (Any answers) [18]
No, it was not. Torun was part of Pomerelia, Gryfino was part of Pomerania. One was inhabited by Poles and Germans, the other was purely German. One belonged mostly to Poland, the other one was part of the HRE since the Middle Ages.
This was all a part of Pomerania
No, it was not. Torun was part of Pomerelia, Gryfino was part of Pomerania. One was inhabited by Poles and Germans, the other was purely German. One belonged mostly to Poland, the other one was part of the HRE since the Middle Ages.
Palivec
8 Jul 2012
Genealogy / Are Silesians people German/Germanic? [178]
LOL! So, these Slavic tribes had eastern and western borders to protect their territory from the neighbouring Slavic tribes (with the same culture and language), but they already had a big brother in the north who was so good to them that they didn't need a border? Yup, makes sense.
Hint: the Odra and the southern mountains were natural borders, and the Slavic tribes in Silesia shared culture and language also with the Bohemian tribes in the south.
You somehow forget to mention the 3-5 million German Silesians who left after 1945...
Topic: before 1945 there were German, Polish and Czech Silesians. The Czech Silesians were the smallest group, and after 1945 their Silesian identity somehow disappeared until the end of Communism. The German Silesians existed since the Middle Ages, but they were expelled after 1945 and only a small minority around Görlitz in Germany still exists (also mostly something reborn after the end of Communism). The Polish part is interesting. The Polish Silesians lived in Upper Silesia, but compared to the Germans in Lower and Middle Silesia their number was relatively small (visible on the low grade of pre-industrial structures). The settlement in (Eastern) Upper Silesia, as we know it today, mostly happened during the age of industrialisation. This was also the time when the Polish and German nationalism emerged and led to the known incidents. Many Poles who came there in the 19th century had a strong Polish identity, but their Silesian identity was mostly developed in the 20th century and partly is a product of the Commie revanchism.
What we call Silesians today are the people who lived between the German and Polish settlement area over the centuries and shared the fate of both. Historically they are no more Silesian than the Polish or German Silesians, but due to the history of both other Silesian groups they are the only ones who truly represent the history of Silesia today.
The north-eastern border with Slavic Polans was not defended due to their common culture and language.'
LOL! So, these Slavic tribes had eastern and western borders to protect their territory from the neighbouring Slavic tribes (with the same culture and language), but they already had a big brother in the north who was so good to them that they didn't need a border? Yup, makes sense.
Hint: the Odra and the southern mountains were natural borders, and the Slavic tribes in Silesia shared culture and language also with the Bohemian tribes in the south.
You somehow forget to mention the 3-5 million German Silesians who left after 1945...
Topic: before 1945 there were German, Polish and Czech Silesians. The Czech Silesians were the smallest group, and after 1945 their Silesian identity somehow disappeared until the end of Communism. The German Silesians existed since the Middle Ages, but they were expelled after 1945 and only a small minority around Görlitz in Germany still exists (also mostly something reborn after the end of Communism). The Polish part is interesting. The Polish Silesians lived in Upper Silesia, but compared to the Germans in Lower and Middle Silesia their number was relatively small (visible on the low grade of pre-industrial structures). The settlement in (Eastern) Upper Silesia, as we know it today, mostly happened during the age of industrialisation. This was also the time when the Polish and German nationalism emerged and led to the known incidents. Many Poles who came there in the 19th century had a strong Polish identity, but their Silesian identity was mostly developed in the 20th century and partly is a product of the Commie revanchism.
What we call Silesians today are the people who lived between the German and Polish settlement area over the centuries and shared the fate of both. Historically they are no more Silesian than the Polish or German Silesians, but due to the history of both other Silesian groups they are the only ones who truly represent the history of Silesia today.
Palivec
6 Jul 2012
Travel / What can Poland do to attract more tourists? Llamas farm? [71]
Oh, many regions have more than enough to do and see, but for various reasons it simply doesn't work right now. I give you one example (because I worked there and know the area very well):
The Jelenia Gora valley had ~40 castles and manors, several very important English parks, resorts, cute villages whose surroundings faded into the parks, and the more impressive side of the Karkonosze. Since the 19th century the Prussian kings used the valley as their summer retreat, and in the 20th century it was one of the most popular tourist destinations in Germany, with direct connections to Berlin. The whole area most have been glorious. But now? The majority of the castles are either destroyed, run-down or not accessible, most parks don't exist anymore, the villages are run-down and the resorts lost their status to the Czech resorts on the other side of the border. Only the northern side of the Karkonosze is still more impressive. And the reasons?
1. most castles are still considered Prussian and German. The people don't see the castles as theirs, and there is no public conscientiousness to preserve them. Most villages have no idea what to do with them and mostly sold them to investors, which sometimes save them, and sometimes destroy them. And the authorities can do nothing against the latter, because the laws allow it that people can do with their property whatever they want, even if it's listed. And the most funny thing: although there are almost 40 more of less preserved castles (with parks), some of them by important artists like Schinkel, Stüler or Lenne, the castle the authorities care the most for is a tiny castle ruin (a ruin since at least 350 years) deep in the woods, which until now was almost unknown, inaccessible and far away from all tourist routes. This tiny castle ruin gets reconstructed now for several hundred thousand €uros, because it is one of the few buildings built when this part of the country was Polish in the early Middle Ages. In the same village is another castle from German times, which is art-historical actually important and was no ruin. This castle is owned by a Belgian, who tries to reconstruct it. He received exactly zilch from the authorities.
2. the parks were delisted in the PRL and, due to lack of care, destroyed. Today they belong to several villages who prefer to sell the land to people who build houses there. Often it's simply fallow land these days.
3. the cute villages are mostly run-down because only the old and poor live there, and they can't identify with houses which are clearly non-Polish. Richer people often build new houses which are often quite tasteless... huge, with turrets and walls, which don't follow the local building traditions and are scattered all over the countryside. The communities don't seem to have a land development plan, everyone can build whereever and whatever he wants.
4. the resorts are often more expensive than the Czech ones on the other side, but the Czech resorts are much cleaner, less chaotic, more relaxed, and the service is better. It's like the Polish communities thought that less regulation equals a better "product". But now they build a huge monstrosity in Karpacz which totally destroys the atmosphere of the place, there is ugly advertisement everywhere, everyone can do with his houses whatever he wants... it all feels so chaotic.
5. there are countless hiking trails in the mountains. The majority of them is in a bad shape on the Polish side. During German times the trails were maintained by volunteers who were organized in a club. In Czechia it's a mix of volunteers and professionals who work for the communities now, but in Poland it looks like no one cares.
I think Poland simply needs more regulation. The communities need land development plans, they need rules to limit all the adverts everywhere, they need concepts how to use their cultural heritage to stimulate tourism, they must work together, there must be superordinate structures to control these efforts etc.. And in this particular case the people have to accept the cultural heritage as theirs, although that's the most difficult part.
the other thing I find particularly disappointing is that most cities simply dont have that much to do and see
Oh, many regions have more than enough to do and see, but for various reasons it simply doesn't work right now. I give you one example (because I worked there and know the area very well):
The Jelenia Gora valley had ~40 castles and manors, several very important English parks, resorts, cute villages whose surroundings faded into the parks, and the more impressive side of the Karkonosze. Since the 19th century the Prussian kings used the valley as their summer retreat, and in the 20th century it was one of the most popular tourist destinations in Germany, with direct connections to Berlin. The whole area most have been glorious. But now? The majority of the castles are either destroyed, run-down or not accessible, most parks don't exist anymore, the villages are run-down and the resorts lost their status to the Czech resorts on the other side of the border. Only the northern side of the Karkonosze is still more impressive. And the reasons?
1. most castles are still considered Prussian and German. The people don't see the castles as theirs, and there is no public conscientiousness to preserve them. Most villages have no idea what to do with them and mostly sold them to investors, which sometimes save them, and sometimes destroy them. And the authorities can do nothing against the latter, because the laws allow it that people can do with their property whatever they want, even if it's listed. And the most funny thing: although there are almost 40 more of less preserved castles (with parks), some of them by important artists like Schinkel, Stüler or Lenne, the castle the authorities care the most for is a tiny castle ruin (a ruin since at least 350 years) deep in the woods, which until now was almost unknown, inaccessible and far away from all tourist routes. This tiny castle ruin gets reconstructed now for several hundred thousand €uros, because it is one of the few buildings built when this part of the country was Polish in the early Middle Ages. In the same village is another castle from German times, which is art-historical actually important and was no ruin. This castle is owned by a Belgian, who tries to reconstruct it. He received exactly zilch from the authorities.
2. the parks were delisted in the PRL and, due to lack of care, destroyed. Today they belong to several villages who prefer to sell the land to people who build houses there. Often it's simply fallow land these days.
3. the cute villages are mostly run-down because only the old and poor live there, and they can't identify with houses which are clearly non-Polish. Richer people often build new houses which are often quite tasteless... huge, with turrets and walls, which don't follow the local building traditions and are scattered all over the countryside. The communities don't seem to have a land development plan, everyone can build whereever and whatever he wants.
4. the resorts are often more expensive than the Czech ones on the other side, but the Czech resorts are much cleaner, less chaotic, more relaxed, and the service is better. It's like the Polish communities thought that less regulation equals a better "product". But now they build a huge monstrosity in Karpacz which totally destroys the atmosphere of the place, there is ugly advertisement everywhere, everyone can do with his houses whatever he wants... it all feels so chaotic.
5. there are countless hiking trails in the mountains. The majority of them is in a bad shape on the Polish side. During German times the trails were maintained by volunteers who were organized in a club. In Czechia it's a mix of volunteers and professionals who work for the communities now, but in Poland it looks like no one cares.
I think Poland simply needs more regulation. The communities need land development plans, they need rules to limit all the adverts everywhere, they need concepts how to use their cultural heritage to stimulate tourism, they must work together, there must be superordinate structures to control these efforts etc.. And in this particular case the people have to accept the cultural heritage as theirs, although that's the most difficult part.
Palivec
3 Jul 2012
Travel / What is the ugliest city or town in Poland? [89]
Ironically this area had the highest number of resort towns in Europe before WW2. The potential of the entire region is wasted right now.
The whole area around Wałbrzych.
Ironically this area had the highest number of resort towns in Europe before WW2. The potential of the entire region is wasted right now.
Palivec
23 Nov 2011
Life / Polish and Czechs [191]
LOL! Czechs are Europes most agnostic nation, while Poles are Europes most religious nation.
And I suppose Czechs have pretty good relations with every nation of the world, since most people will agree that Prague is very beautiful.
:D
Additionally, they are quite similar to us in culture, and really are our Slavic sisters/brothers.
LOL! Czechs are Europes most agnostic nation, while Poles are Europes most religious nation.
And I suppose Czechs have pretty good relations with every nation of the world, since most people will agree that Prague is very beautiful.
:D
Palivec
7 Nov 2011
History / Should Poland organize March of the Living in Volhynia and Eastern Lesser Poland? [64]
Was it based on the ideology of racial superiority, with the goal to annihilate the entire race, and not only the entire race but also to destroy the culture?
The genocide of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Lesser Poland perpetrated by Ukrainian nationalists bears striking resemblance to Holocaust.
Was it based on the ideology of racial superiority, with the goal to annihilate the entire race, and not only the entire race but also to destroy the culture?
Palivec
5 Nov 2011
Travel / What can Poland do to attract more tourists? Llamas farm? [71]
Here you can compare the number of tourists in all countries of the EU:
google.com/publicdata/overview?ds=lcj35au14slh3_
Here you can compare the number of tourists in all countries of the EU:
google.com/publicdata/overview?ds=lcj35au14slh3_
Palivec
18 Oct 2011
History / Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? [65]
I'm not sure, but I hope Serbia is the solution for Polands problem...
once more
Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? i mean, when it comes to strategic interests
Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? i mean, when it comes to strategic interests
I'm not sure, but I hope Serbia is the solution for Polands problem...
Palivec
21 Sep 2011
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]
Wikipedia has a nice article about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
Wikipedia has a nice article about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
Palivec
20 Sep 2011
News / Should Poland leave the EU institution? [147]
Currently the EU is divided into three blocks. The founding members, the Mediterranean and the former Commie countries. The founding members, which interestingly are the successor states of the Frankish empire of Charlemagne, share the same view on matters such as integration, economy, fiscal policy and so on. The Mediterranean countries are for more integration too, but their economic and fiscal traditions are different. The former Commie countries, especially Poland and the former countries of Austria-Hungary, share the economic and fiscal policies of the founding members, but aren't ready for more integration.
Currently the EU is divided into three blocks. The founding members, the Mediterranean and the former Commie countries. The founding members, which interestingly are the successor states of the Frankish empire of Charlemagne, share the same view on matters such as integration, economy, fiscal policy and so on. The Mediterranean countries are for more integration too, but their economic and fiscal traditions are different. The former Commie countries, especially Poland and the former countries of Austria-Hungary, share the economic and fiscal policies of the founding members, but aren't ready for more integration.
Palivec
19 Sep 2011
Food / Polish Pizza !! The best in the world? [330]
And this is a pizza from Napoli:
Pizza is a simple dish made from fresh, good ingredients. Fresh tomatoes and herbs, good olive oil, buffalo mozzarella, baken in a brick oven.
This is a Chicago-thin-crust-style pizza made in America by one of Polish descent from a recipe based on one used at an Italian pizzeria.
And this is a pizza from Napoli:
Pizza is a simple dish made from fresh, good ingredients. Fresh tomatoes and herbs, good olive oil, buffalo mozzarella, baken in a brick oven.
Palivec
16 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
And this:
this:
Poland owes to Germany Auschwitz camp one of the most popular attractions visited every year by hundreds of thousands tourists bringing hard currency.
And this:
this:
Palivec
16 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
Poles owe nothing to Germans, that's for sure. Better ask how Poland was influenced by Germany. How about:
- German town law
The medieval settlement structure in Poland was imported from Germany. Even today many municipal structures are based on it.
- Sachsenspiegel
This legal code was used in many parts of medieval Poland
- modern book printing
Obviously most printers who introduced book printing to Poland were Germans
- Brick Gothic
From Luebeck via the Hanseatic League to Poland
Poles owe nothing to Germans, that's for sure. Better ask how Poland was influenced by Germany. How about:
- German town law
The medieval settlement structure in Poland was imported from Germany. Even today many municipal structures are based on it.
- Sachsenspiegel
This legal code was used in many parts of medieval Poland
- modern book printing
Obviously most printers who introduced book printing to Poland were Germans
- Brick Gothic
From Luebeck via the Hanseatic League to Poland
Palivec
15 Sep 2011
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]
I'm not Bratwurst. I'm not even German. But contrary to most Americans here I actually know Poland. Compare the twin cities of Goerlitz/Zgorzelec or Cieszyn/Těšín and you know what I mean.
Goerlitz: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1326561
vs.
Zgorzelec: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1426038
I'm not Bratwurst. I'm not even German. But contrary to most Americans here I actually know Poland. Compare the twin cities of Goerlitz/Zgorzelec or Cieszyn/Těšín and you know what I mean.
Goerlitz: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1326561
vs.
Zgorzelec: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1426038
Palivec
15 Sep 2011
Food / Polish Pizza !! The best in the world? [330]
++++
And people who think pizza + ketchup are a good idea shouldn't talk about the best pizza in the world, lol.
no offense, but for that kind of food, the further to the south in europe, the better it gets. closer to the original and keeps its characteristics known for. ;)
++++
And people who think pizza + ketchup are a good idea shouldn't talk about the best pizza in the world, lol.
Palivec
15 Sep 2011
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]
Historically and culturally: Central Europe. Feeling when you cross the border: Eastern Europe.
Historically and culturally: Central Europe. Feeling when you cross the border: Eastern Europe.
Palivec
11 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
Exactly. How can you compensate someone for it? And how can you compensate a nation for lost national treasures? Poland received Silesian, Pomeranian or Prussian treasures instead (the university and museums of Warsaw are full of Silesian treasures for instance), but Poles will never feel the same emotional bond. On the contrary, it just creates new tensions... probably Stalins intention anyway.
But: saying Silesia, Pomerania and Prussia are a small compensation is a joke. Houses, land, infrastructure, natural resources, cultural assets... Silesia alone houses 1/4 of all listed objects in Poland. Lech Kaczyński once wanted to determine the exact amount, but quickly forgot the idea again.
how do you calculate the price of the lives lost - if husbands died and women were left behind with children and had to make it on their own
Exactly. How can you compensate someone for it? And how can you compensate a nation for lost national treasures? Poland received Silesian, Pomeranian or Prussian treasures instead (the university and museums of Warsaw are full of Silesian treasures for instance), but Poles will never feel the same emotional bond. On the contrary, it just creates new tensions... probably Stalins intention anyway.
But: saying Silesia, Pomerania and Prussia are a small compensation is a joke. Houses, land, infrastructure, natural resources, cultural assets... Silesia alone houses 1/4 of all listed objects in Poland. Lech Kaczyński once wanted to determine the exact amount, but quickly forgot the idea again.
Palivec
11 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
Warsaw was mostly rebuilt with bricks from former Stettin and Breslau. Both cities were partly destroyed for it. Moreover Poland received the property of 9 mio Germans.
have their ever paid for destroying Warsaw ?
Warsaw was mostly rebuilt with bricks from former Stettin and Breslau. Both cities were partly destroyed for it. Moreover Poland received the property of 9 mio Germans.
Palivec
11 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
What Stoss made was a late Gothic altar. In Italy however Gothic wasn't en vogue anymore at that time. So Pawian is right. If not Vit Stwosz, the German, Poles would never have acquired *such an altar*.
Yes they would, they'd just hire an Italian to do it, Vit got lucky since it wa mostly italians who got commisions.
What Stoss made was a late Gothic altar. In Italy however Gothic wasn't en vogue anymore at that time. So Pawian is right. If not Vit Stwosz, the German, Poles would never have acquired *such an altar*.
Palivec
11 Sep 2011
History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]
Better think of Eastern Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania as reparations for WW2.
Think of it as reparations for WWII.
Better think of Eastern Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania as reparations for WW2.
Palivec
10 Sep 2011
History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_Europe
Polish history contains no myths as far as i know.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_Europe
Palivec
31 Aug 2011
Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]
First of all, I don't hate anything, and certainly not entire countries. Some things I dislike about Poland are:
1) the combination of victim complex and overly romantic conception of history (Christ among nations). Makes rational discussions about history almost impossible. Although the younger generation is already much different.
2) the ruination of the "recovered territories". Mostly thanks to the Commies. Thank god the younger people, teens and twens, get interested in their home now. Often too late.
3) the lack of rules in the public sphere. Big and small adverts everywhere, tasteless buildings full of turrets and battlements, no settlement plans and so on. Sometimes Poland looks like a big mess.
First of all, I don't hate anything, and certainly not entire countries. Some things I dislike about Poland are:
1) the combination of victim complex and overly romantic conception of history (Christ among nations). Makes rational discussions about history almost impossible. Although the younger generation is already much different.
2) the ruination of the "recovered territories". Mostly thanks to the Commies. Thank god the younger people, teens and twens, get interested in their home now. Often too late.
3) the lack of rules in the public sphere. Big and small adverts everywhere, tasteless buildings full of turrets and battlements, no settlement plans and so on. Sometimes Poland looks like a big mess.
Palivec
23 Aug 2011
News / Should Poland leave the EU institution? [147]
Chicago Pollock
Because Poland already received the entire property of 9 mio Germans maybe?
Sorry to say this, but Polands civil society isn't advanced enough to emulate these countries. Which country wouldn't like to be a second Switzerland?
Chicago Pollock
Poland was also biggest recipient of war damage. Consider EU aid war reparations, why not?
Because Poland already received the entire property of 9 mio Germans maybe?
The longer Poland stays in EU, Poland will eventually lose it's sovereignty. Poland should emulate Norway, Iceland, Switzerland. Forget EU.
Sorry to say this, but Polands civil society isn't advanced enough to emulate these countries. Which country wouldn't like to be a second Switzerland?
Palivec
23 Aug 2011
News / Should Poland leave the EU institution? [147]
So, US-Americans, Brits and a Serb discuss if Poland should leave the EU. Haha...
All former Commie countries, including Poland, pushed hard become EU members. Western Europe was reluctant to admit them so soon because of the convergence criterias, but it was seen as a sign of historic justice. When Schengen was implemented Poles, and all other countries like Czechia, were overjoyed to be a full member of the European community now. Being able to drive from Poland to Germany without a border check, something many Poles considered humiliating, was a great experience for many.
And we shouldn't forget that Poland is the biggest recipient of EU aid.
So, US-Americans, Brits and a Serb discuss if Poland should leave the EU. Haha...
All former Commie countries, including Poland, pushed hard become EU members. Western Europe was reluctant to admit them so soon because of the convergence criterias, but it was seen as a sign of historic justice. When Schengen was implemented Poles, and all other countries like Czechia, were overjoyed to be a full member of the European community now. Being able to drive from Poland to Germany without a border check, something many Poles considered humiliating, was a great experience for many.
And we shouldn't forget that Poland is the biggest recipient of EU aid.
Palivec
22 Aug 2011
Palivec
9 Aug 2011
UK, Ireland / Why Poles will never belong in England [283]
Saxony never shared a border with Poland until 1945, and your map shows the personal union of Saxony and Poland. You may google what "personal union" means.
Borders went back and forth for centuries. There are Poles of Saxon decent and Saxons of Polish decent.
Saxony never shared a border with Poland until 1945, and your map shows the personal union of Saxony and Poland. You may google what "personal union" means.
Palivec
7 Aug 2011
History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]
Some remarks here are so far away from todays European reality, it's hillarious. Looks like some people live in a time warp and can't get out, lol.
Some remarks here are so far away from todays European reality, it's hillarious. Looks like some people live in a time warp and can't get out, lol.
Palivec
24 Jul 2011
Food / What's your favorite Polish coffee? [73]
Well, some people buy only expensive whole beans and despise everything else, and some people drink American coffee and think Starbucks makes the best coffee in the world. If you are neither of those Jakobs Kroenung isn't a bad choice. I usually buy Dallmayr or Illy, but I'm not sure if you can get them in Poland.
Well, some people buy only expensive whole beans and despise everything else, and some people drink American coffee and think Starbucks makes the best coffee in the world. If you are neither of those Jakobs Kroenung isn't a bad choice. I usually buy Dallmayr or Illy, but I'm not sure if you can get them in Poland.
Palivec
23 Jul 2011
Life / Polish and Czechs [191]
But I can't remember seeing many Czechs in Poland, to be honest.
And the contacts in Commie times were totally different. Sure, there was some border traffic, mainly by tourists, but now the EU forces real cooperation, which was totally unknown back then. Local councils now have to work together and even hold joint meetings, schools switch pupils and teachers, kindergarden children meet, associations share work and so on. This is new.
I don't think that applies to Poles though.
But I can't remember seeing many Czechs in Poland, to be honest.
And the contacts in Commie times were totally different. Sure, there was some border traffic, mainly by tourists, but now the EU forces real cooperation, which was totally unknown back then. Local councils now have to work together and even hold joint meetings, schools switch pupils and teachers, kindergarden children meet, associations share work and so on. This is new.