Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]


I don't know what ugliness in Kraków center you are talking, but since everybody have their unique taste...
£ódź ugliness is also historic, something like XIX-century ugliness.


When you have been in £ódź, you had to wear pink glasses all the time, because what I saw is rather different, from what you saw.

Its pity for £ódź, that it is located in the same province as Warsaw. All the money goes to capital and not much is left to this city. If they had their own province the situation would be different.

I remember that when the administration reform was introduced, Kielce fought to have separate province from Kraków. That was a good choice, bigger and more important city would have outflow all the money and vitality from the smaller city.

£ódź unfortunately don't have it's own province and as a result is deteriorating.

Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

Maybe first 3 min. can be found in other cities. After that is only plain and ugly £ódź in its best. Seriously the pictures you posted were taken in the city center. 1 meter from center is kilometers of ugly £ódź. Unfortunately I have been there, I know what I'm talking about.

Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

Every city have propaganda pictures. You intentions might be good, but seriously £ódź is ugly and depressing.
Here is movie with a promising title "Ziemia obiecana 2" about how £ódź really looks like:

youtu.be/8pk7ukm09aI

My previous statement is justified.
In my case if Russians would want to exile me in the indefinite future ;), they should choose not Siberia but £ódź. It will be a more severe punishment for me.

Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

£ódź is the most depressing city I have ever been. Go for Wrocław, Kraków or any other Polish city and you can be sure that it will be always better choice than £ódź. I don't know the suicidal rates of £ódź but they are for sure higher than in any other Polish city. Recently I was there for few days and couln't imagine how £odzianie are able to live there. Sad but true.

Language / "Ego" as an ending in Polish Names? [19]

Polish surnames are declinated.
Klepacki
N: Klepacki
G: Klepackiego
D: Klepackiemu
Acc: Klepackiego
Abl: Klepackim
V: o Klepacki!

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


The funny thing in this situation is that both Left and Right have the same extreme and outlawed.
The best example is Rymkiewicz.
One of the arguments he brought in court against GW journalists is that some of their parents belonged to Communist Part and because of such education they are consciously or subconsciously hostile to Poland and Poles. The problem is: Rymkiewicz parents also belonged to Communist Party, so does he know what he is saying by that? He is consciously or subconsciously hostile to Poland?

but it's getting better. Rymkiewicz himself belonged to Union of Polish Youth (Związek Młodzieży Polskiej). Moreover he was an active member of ZMP. He defended then the achievements of UB - Urzedu Bezpieczeństwa (Security Department operating from 1945 to 1954, in another words stalinist bloody police). In one of the articles he attacked "intellectual jackals" who betrayed communism and try to create "myth of bloody Security Department).

In 1964 some Polish intellectuals wrote "Letter 34" - the first public protest against censorship. Rymkiewicz didn't take part in this, instead he signed "Letter 600" - a responce and protest against "Letter 34" inspired by Gomułka. Jadwiga Staniszkis said in an interview for "Europe" in 2009: "I remember Rymkiewicz from the 70s as a frequenter of the cultural establishment in costume lover of the classics: disciplined, cool and silent. Then, when you could have this impulse or even a shy ethical protest against the system, in Rymkiewiczu there was no sign of despair, no such impulses. (...)"

He became part of opposition when it was difficult to find someone in Poland who wasn't.
Now he is right-wing supporter and ideologue. He was opportunist and he still is.
His life-history is not so different from history of many. Everyone lived under the same communist rule, everyone had some kind of connection with communists. Both left and right side of political spectrum had more or less the same experience during communism.

Another thing is ideology. Both parties have or tries to have it's roots in interwar period. So if you want to look for ideology to which right in Poland is reffering to you should read about Narodowa Demokracja (endecja) and Piłsudski during his authoritarian times (sanacja). Left is reffering to PPS - Polska Partia Socjalistyczna (Polish Socialist Party). Note that PPS was rather different from other, foreign socialist parties at that time. They main objective was independence of Poland, so they were some kind of patriotic, socialist party.


This is not a first time when press is suing because of defamation, so there is no precedent. This law exist almost since the beginning of IIIRP and was used many times. I don't think it is bad law, because the quality of public debate in Poland is still low.I think that culture of public debate will increase by the time, but now we still need defamation law.

If you compare situation and debate from the beginning of IIIRP with that of now there is a big positive quality change. Although hearing what some politicians are saying everyday you might not believe me, but at the beginning it was much, much worse. I cant even find words to describe the situation then, it was misery. If you compare newspapers content from that time with now you will see the difference. So there is progress. Maybe someday we will no longer need defamation law, but for that to happen more people need to create skill and culture in debate and know boundaries




When you finally decide with whom you are talking let me know and then maybe I will disscuss with you.

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


After he published his apologies, he had an interview with Tomasz Sakiewicz (in Gazeta Polska Codziennie). He said:
"Perhaps such an apology have any meaning to the court- I don't know. For me this apology have no meaning." (...) "In Poland we don't have any trockists and luksemburgists, and therefore GW have no reading public."

Sigh... this guy will never learn....


Request seconded, Ms journalist.


His statement that journalists and editors of GW "hate Poland, Poles and Christianity" was only a part of longer and more visious speech he gave in front of Presidential Palace and the cross that was erected there by scouts after Smoleńsk crash. At the time of his speech there were many people there, taking part in manifestations against taking cross out of there. His speech was then widely reported in Poland in Tv and newspapers. He also said that journalists and editors of GW were educated and brought up to hate Poland and Cross, that they are spiritual heirs of KPP and supproters of luxemburgism and by that adversaries of Polish independence and fifth column of communists (and by that Russians).

I know that such statements in any other country have no meaning and probably would be treated with indiference. The problem is that he did not say that in USA, but in Poland. Both these countries and nations have complete different history, experience and its own share of sensitive issues. In Poland such sensitive issues are for example: communism and independence.

Poland for the last three hundred years was fighting for its independence, so people here are highly sensitive when it comes to everything that could undermine it. Be it European Union, NATO, or the undercover communists, Jews or whatever someone will come up with to gain support, publicity and applause.

Another thing are people who belonged to and supported communism. The disscussion about screening procedure (lustracja) in Poland was never really carried out. There were some attempts, but they were either too lenient or to harsh. It left the feeling in public that there is some kind of undercover communist organisation, fifth column, who try to undermine Polish state and independence. This and many others conspiration theories are thriving and providing easy explanation to every difficulty Poland have.

There are many people ( whos political affiliation I'm not going to write here, but I'm sure you are bright enough to figure out) who try to take advantage of that and use this as political leverage. It only brings unnecessary conflicts, that have nothing to do with reality. This is often referred as "wojna polsko-polska"- polish-polish war and this description is not far from reality. Both participants of this conflict are using every method to discredit opponent, to destroy him, so as oyu can see polish politic is not about compromise but about completly destrpoying oppnent. The problem is that non of them is able to secure majority in Parliament, what makes almost impossible to carry out reforms.

Ok, enough of rumbling ;)
The Rymkiewicz speech was part of this war and he is not only a poet but also a public person, journalist of GW opponent newspaper. HHis words could have big impact on GW (also financial one). If Gw decided to fight with his lies, I don't blame them.

The same methods are used by GW opponents, when they write something untrue or slanderous.
The public debate is not supressed by defamation law, it only make it more civil.


I decided today to become a true Pole, who could understand Polish spirit and culture. But I need guidance, because there are things that I can't fully grasp. So, I hope that you and Des will help me.

So, can we use defamation law, or not?


I admit that I have my malady. People with whom I consulted my problem, said that it is Concience-Logic Syndrome. For example, when I saw both these statements I thought that it is logicaly impossible to stand by both these statements and the Concience part of my syndrome sended me a signal that this is hypocrisy.

So, Ironside I need help. How you manage to preach both at the same time. I suppose you don't have Concience-Logic Syndrome, but what would you advise to person who have such malady.

I heard that there is a pill, the pill of Murti-Bing, and if you take it, you can get rid of Concience-Logic Syndrome. I was wondering if you Des have such a pill. I'm not asking you because some villains on PF wrote that you are addicted to drugs.This was a lie, slunder, and they were rightfully suspanded. I'm fully supporting you and in such instances you should not hesitate and report such derogatory posts. Oh, no, but what abiut freedom of speech? Oh no, again, Concience-Logic Syndrome!!!

You see, my problem is complicated, I can't afford Murti-Bing pill, because it is not refunded by NFZ. So would help me? Would you tell me how it is possible to preach one and do another? How one can rid of Concience and Logic Syndrome?

Teachers, please help!!!

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]

Next time, please provide full quote or I might think that you try to distort reality to your liking.
"Statements made about a public person (political candidates, governmental officeholder, movie star, author, celebrity, sports hero, etc.) are usually exempt, even if they are untrue and harmful. However, if they were made with malice – with hate, dislike, intent and/or desire to harm and with reckless disregard for the truth – the public person may have a cause of action. This was determined by the U.S. Supreme Court and has been re-interpreted various times."

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


No, you can't. In USA there are defamation laws and if you will express slanderous opinion and someone will take offence you will have to suffer consequences.

hg.org/defamation.html


Thank God, "only as far as you can tell". Rymkiewicz wasn't just saying that GW staff hate something (like this something was spinach). He clearly said that best selling Polish newspaper hates Poles, Poland and Christians. Such word have weight and can be possibly damaging to newspaper, if they will not react to that.


So if "cranky old man's opinion" should not be persecuted, then please write the age from which the law in Poland shold not aply to citizens. 60? 70? After that limit age they can say and do whatever they want I presume?

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


Slander a common knowledge among Poles?
Definetly not as court ruling proves.


Only the good ones...


That we have rule of law in Poland.
That law applies to everybody irrespective of age, occupation...

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


The only thing that fails here is your logic.


Freedom does not mean anarchy.
Freedom of speech like every other freedom has its limits. Everyone in Poland is entitled to exercise their freedom, as long as they do not undermine the rights and freedoms of others.Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to purposefuly lie and offend anyone, to violate someone's dignity. One can not use the freedom of speech law, when he is lying, slandering, saying something that violates someone's personal rights.

The dignity of every human is also protected by Polish law. Therefore I praise the court for ruling against Rymkiewicz and for having the courage to speak the obvious (at least obvious for some on PF).




Your comments show that state and law doesn't mean much to you, unless they are on your side. You are demonstarting complete contempt for the law, the principles and values that are foundations of Poland. This posts are written by a supporter of PiS, a party of declared state worshippers. I don't think that Poland needs such love ;/


No it wasn't taken out of context. If anybody is bored enough to read all your posts on that thread then here you can do it:

polishforums.com/news-politics-4/poland-fines-singer-bashing-bible-56606/

As I said, if the law is not on your side, then it is a bad law, isn't Ironside?




It is amusing that you decided to defend Rymkiewicz The Hypocrite. I guess you founded common ground....

Rymkiewicz asked by Piotr Rogowski (Agora attorney) "Can you judge people by the views of parents?", Rymkiewicz said that "you can draw conclusions as to their education". When asked by a lawyer, whether in the Stalinist years he was in the Union of Polish Youth (Związek Młodzieży Polskiej), Rymkiewicz confirmed. "The point is not what I did at age 15" - he added. "And why do you think that the essence of the case are the views of parents, editors of "GW"? - asked Rogowski.

"Michnik criticized Luxemburg for underestimating the independence aspirations of Poles" - said Rogowski. "I do not read Michnik" - Rymkiewicz said. When asked by a lawyer, Rymkiewicz admitted that his parents were in the Communist Party.

Here is link to article (in Polish)

wsieci.rp.pl/opinie/rekiny-i-plotki/Kolejna-odslona-procesu-Gazeta-Wyborcza-Marek-Rymkiewicz-

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


In court proceedings everything is about the facts and proofs.
The proof is an information that have support in reality and the carrier of that information is evidence.
Rymkiewicz was not able to prove that his information have support in reality and he did not procure any evidence.

Btw, how nice of you to use wikipedia, when we talk about Polish law. I see that I'm talking with a true expert, who have knowledge and authority to judge Polish judges ;/


Common sense?


To prove that a certain opinion is slanderous or not is not an easy task, you need to procure evidence. (remember? evidence? facts? reality?)


Ups... busted
and here is evidence:

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


I wanted to remaind you about this basic law, because your every post show that you never heard of it.
Perhaps you have some sensational facts about GW being


. Why don't you present them here andprove that Rymkiewicz was right.
Please, remember to use facts. You clearly have problems in that department.

If you want to talk about legal matters then allow me to enlighten you.
In civil proceedings plaintiff and defendant have the initiative in presenting the claims and allegations and evidence in support of thereof. The role of the court is only to settle the dispute. That means that GW gave judges sufficient evidence to counter Rymkiewicz slander and that also means that Rymkiewicz was just expressing his slanderous views without any evidence to support them.


However, court can prove that some opinions are slanderous.

Po polsku / Cinkciarz - nastolatek nie znal tego slowa [14]


Raczej cincz many, cincz many .... :D

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


In Polish law, as in any other modern democratic law, there is the presumption of innocence. One is concidered innocent until proven guilty.
The editors don't have to prove anything, not to judges and definetly not to you.

Genealogy / Ignaz Sledziewski info? [10]

Here is map where you can see where Śledziewscy live in Poland.
moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/%25C5%259Bledziewski.html

I found here that in Tarnów (city) live about 5 people with that surname.

History / Poland and Britain started WW2 [307]

Aside from nonsence you are spewing here it is great that you decided to answer Harry, when he got suspended. Bravo! That, aside from nonsence, shows what kind of partner in conversation and person you are.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]

Ukpolska I know it's wrong. I even stated that in later post. Why cherry-pick a quote that was more about responding to attack of some other poster (now edited)?

...and yes gumishu it can be sometimes confusing when I try to translate from my "Polish thoughts" into "English post" ;)

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]

I know that my second post was oversimplified. Biofuels are not made solely from jatropha.
In the first post I stated that today most of biofuels used in cars are made from jatropha and that it have dreadful consequences.


jatropha translates into seeds. To produce biofuel they are using jatropha oil, not wood.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]


If you really could use search engine you would be able to find out that biofuels are not made from wood but jatropha.
I am guessing that educated and filled with facts posts make you uncomfortable, but that is your problem and you have to deal with it by yourself.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]

Biofuel that is mostly used in cars and in power plants (maybe in future) is not made from wood but jatropha. It grows easily in arid zones ill adapted to agriculture. However jatropha requires more irrigation than it was previously forecasted and plantations often replace forest lands.

The demand for biofuels is spurred by EU. Since 2011 petrol stations the EU have to increase the percentage of fuels with low carbon dioxide emissions.The goal is to reach 10% by 2020. The trick is: Europe does not have sufficient arable land to produce the required amount of biofuels. Because of that EU countries are buying large areas of land in Africa (currently 4 million hectars). In total 19 millions hectars in Africa is occupied by biofuels plantations.

At the global level, replacing food crops with jatropha contributed to the rise in food prices in 2007 and 2008. That coused in many countries famine. About 2 months ago there was a radio BBC4 documentary about the consecuences of biofuel plantations in South America. In many instances tropical forests were cut down to make place for jatropha. Local communities were suffering because of lack of land for their crops. The same thing is happening right now in Africa.

I think that biofuels maybe are somehow eco friendly, but definitely they are not human friendly.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]


EU treaties provide that member states are independent in shaping their energy balance. EU should remember about it's own laws.


Poland already curbed more than 20% carbon dioxide emissions (20% is a level set for EU countries from 1990 by 2020). That goal was partly acheived by replacing communist-era power plants with more modern ones, though also fuelled with coal.

This plan is contradicting EU strategy to completely eliminate coal as the heaviest carbon dioxide emitter. Coal energy is to be costlier than gas or wind energy - thats the basic meaning of EU climate policy. So what gumishu wrote here is true:

My electric bills are already much higher since January 2012. Pantsless I don't know where you live, but it's probably not Poland. Your comment about gumishu's post shows that you clearly have no idea about effects of rising energy cost on Polish industry and ordinary people here.

"Pure coal" technologies, such as storing CO2 underground, will never be implemented, because it costs too much. At this point you can see enormous hypocrisy of EU. They only talk about pure technologies but in reality they introduce gas or nuclear power plants. It's probably not a coincidence that several countries that loudly bemoan Polish veto are countries that specialise in technologies they want to introduce in Poland. France with it's nuclear industry; Denmark and Gemany with their wind generators. West is already a saturated market for those commodities and they need to expand.

Moreover climate is a public good (also in economic terms), so it needs to be treated as such. Europe can't protect global climate by itself. In past 2 decades, when Europe cuted coal consumption by about 300 mil. tons per year (at great economic cost), China increased it's use by 2,5 billion tons per year. So whats the point of this?

Life / Izabela? - Advice with Polish name for a girl [36]

There is really not a big difference between Izabella and Izabela since for most of the time she will be called Iza (at least in Poland).

Life / Izabela? - Advice with Polish name for a girl [36]


Both of these are common in Poland.
Never heard of Isabela or Isabella in Poland.The pronounciation in Polish would seem awkward.

Genealogy / Ignaz Sledziewski info? [10]

First of all, you need to give their proper, Polish names:
Ignaz is Polish Ignacy.
Sledziewski can be either Sledziewski or Śledziewski.
Anthony is Antoni
Stanley is probably Stanisław.
It is all I can tell you for now, because information you gave is not enough.
Only name and appx date of birth is not enough. You need to know where he came from (aside Poland;)

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

I thought that since you are posting here, you can read and write. Maybe I was wrong?
Foreigner4 post is above, you (maybe) can read it and figure by yourself what he was referring to.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

Yes I noticed that you posted video, don't worry I didn't omit your valuable input to this thread, so don't sweat.
You probably realize that there is more to Jewish history than this video. I was writing about more general approach of some to Jewish history and narrative they use.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


I think that the disscussion above was about difficult Polish-Jewish relations in pre-war and war period. Ofcourse there are two sides to this story.
I do hope that you are not mentioning Holocaust just to evade Foreigner4's valid point about Jewish history narrative.

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [167]

Go to embassy and check there for more information . Then write here what you will learn from embassy and we can further discuss this matter.

If there would be anything more to clarify, I will gladly help.

Food / Comparison of supermarkets in Poland. Which one is the cheapest? [30]


According to a farmer I know, thats true.