Love / Are Polish men handsome to you? [182]


Imagine Mr Bean's twin sister. Would you like to have sex only with her for the rest of your life?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Well, yes, I do agree with that in a way, but that is a conversation for a glass of wine and no curfew ...

Love / Are Polish men handsome to you? [182]

95% of men. I have a thing for Poles. I know, not normal. But hey. Why fight it.

I don't understand this stuff about Polish guys not being sexy. What?! Think of it like this. Quite a lot of English men look like Mr Bean. No Polish men look like him.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


erm ... that actually means to calm troubled waters ... I think you meant the opposite ...


Thank you, Barney. Normal understanding. Like, birds fly, the sea is wet, and life starts at conception. Someone on a life support machine would be, by definition of 'life support', be dead if not on it. etc.

I really really find it hard to understand why people have this kind of obsession with arguing against facts like this. It seems ... perverse.


That is a GOOD fact, p3! I didn't know that! So ... if a woman is on her way to get an abortion, and is murdered, then it is killing a life, but if she had made it to the clinic and aborted the baby that would just have been a medical procedure and her absolute right not to carry a child if she didn't fancy it ... and there we have the whole stupid double-standards cr@p.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


? So is a baby not alive when it is born then? Because it can't make conscious (or even couscous ; ) logical decisions for months, if not years ... come on.

But what happened to that visitor to your country who was not given the best medical care because of the law re: abortion - of course that is wrong, appalling, dreadful. The point there is that the doctor said she was miscarrying and so the baby would die, so OF COURSE she should have been saved.

I have always said that if there is an urgent medical necessity - to save the mother's life, where the baby will anyhow not survive - then if termination is part of saving her life then that is emergency treatment and unfortunately that is what has to happen.

What I think is wrong is when you have a perfectly healthy pregnancy, baby and mother, and because it doesn't suit the mother's life plan at that moment to have a baby, the baby is dispensed with. That is not ok.


mush? An unborn child isn't some sort of blob, you know. Did you think it just existed as a 'state' during pregnancy, then only forms into limbs, etc, and a baby when each bit touches the fresh air????? At 24 weeks it looks like a small version of a newborn baby. There are loads of pics and videos on the net of premature babies born at 24 weeks, who go on to survive normally. These people have pictures of their children because they love and cherish them.

Look, abortion for medical reasons - ok. Abortion because you fxxxxd up and aren't sure you want a baby now - not ok.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


It wasn't meant as an insult. It was just that it felt like you were posing ideas just for the sake of argument. And that felt like deliberate denseness. I don't think you're stupid, but I find it frustrating to discuss with someone who says we don't know when someone is dead.

This whole idea that there is any confusion about life and death ... there isn't. New life starts when fertilisation begins. Death would happen to those not on life support. (That they might be aided by life support and then recover doesn't change that - if they weren't on life support, they would be dead.)


I wouldn't, I don't think you are, and anyhow I wouldn't use that word. I reserve that for people who try to con honest workmen out of money, that sort of thing.


I think the figure is about 33%. And when there is a miscarriage, they say 'the baby died' or 'the baby didn't survive'. They don't say 'the baby was dead anyhow and now it is just deader'. (That's what I mean about stupid ... your arguments unravel and end up in statements that are just plain ... ok. Just daft, let's say.)


: ) Ok. Like zillions of women, I have felt new life growing inside me. Also like zillions, I have seen the body of my father, which clearly wasn't alive, and no amount of me arguing otherwise would have changed that. When you feel a tiny flutter against your stomach around 16 weeks and know that the baby is now big enough for you to feel his or her movement, you are absolutely, yes, certain and sure as anything, that a living creature is inside you. And you know that creature was moving before, but you couldn't feel it because he or she was as yet too small. And if you think I am 'projecting' when I say that when you see your father dead, you, erm, will be very sure that he is dead then ... ok. You think that. I'm not projecting. I'm just telling you how it is. You won't be in any doubt.

I only used that rather personal example to point out that the distinction between alive and dead is really a pretty simple one. And yes, of that distinction, I am very sure. As are, I'm also sure, zillions of other people. This isn't some personal opinion of mine. This is observed fact. Just because I am only talking about my observation of it, doesn't mean it isn't true. I don't need to read research to know my baby is alive when she kicks my tummy. You don't need research to tell you that if you jump off a building, you might not survive, and whatever happens, it will bloody hurt. We don't need research to tell us everything ...


This is of course what I was trying to say ... : )
Since you can't be certain the unborn baby isn't alive, you should proceed as if it is. And therefore not kill it.


No, and I didn't say that. I said that as you haven't been pregnant, you haven't felt a child inside you, so you can't say 'it isn't alive' with as much conviction as those who have felt a live child inside them and know full well it is alive. The guys aren't actually claiming that unborn children aren't alive with anything like your conviction. Look: what is so difficult about this point? If you have climbed Everest, and I haven't, then you are much more of an expert on it than I am. I can say 'oh, the research tells me it isn't very cold up there' as much as I like, but if you were there, and you felt the cold, your voicing of your experience is more true than my conjecture based on research. Basically, you know, and I don't.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


: ) Thank you. Liking always gratefully accepted.

I think I am what they call 'finding my internet voice'. I am becoming more bolshy and outspoken by the second : D

I read that first as 'Oh, my Natasia' - that sounded good, as well.

I just think women who say all dicks are the same are deliberately lying. Or perhaps are lesbians?

But, I hasten to add - I am not saying that some dicks are inherently better than others, regardless of who they are attached to. No, no, no. The one attached to the man you love, the one that has perhaps helped create your beautiful daughter, or some such - that is the best one.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Well, since we do know that doctors would say to a woman 7-weeks' pregnant, if she had had a scan at 6 weeks showing a heartbeat, and then a scan at 7 weeks with no heartbeat, that ... her baby had died. 'We are so sorry. The baby was ok last week, but unfortunately now we can't find a heartbeat, so the baby has died'.

So, if it has died, then it was alive before.


Life support machines are artificial. If not on a life support machine, those people would be dead. (And don't start some nifty nonsense about the pregnant mother being a life support machine - she isn't a machine, although she performs the function of nurturing the developing child.)


Are you really that stupid, or just pretending?

You haven't been pregnant. I doubt you have seen someone close, such as your father, lying dead. I promise you that if you had had both of these experiences, you would be in no doubt at all what is life, and what is death.

Life support machines to keep someone 'alive' who has little or no chance of recovery are a different thing. In this situation, the body is usually going nowhere, and the mind is unconscious, possibly never to come back. A developing child is rapidly growing, and is on a straight course to birth and being a young person. You cut off someone who will possibly never live again, it is a hard decision, but probably you are only hastening what is coming anyhow. In cutting off a developing child, you are interrupting the rush to birth. You are not hastening the inevitable death. You are intercepting the inevitable life.

But if you are really so stupid that I have to explain that to you, then am not sure why am even talking to you.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


I agree with your disagreement. You are right.


I disagree. Well, that is how I see it. I guess for you any old dick is a dick. For me, there are dicks and there are dicks.

Not that I have extensive research to compare, but the internet is a wonderful thing (arguably ; ) - just look up 'Penis Gallery' on the net and you will see how they differ ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


It is a word.
wordreference.com/definition/guiltiness

The use of it rather than the much more common 'guilt' was deliberate on my part, because 'guiltiness' imparts a slightly different nuance.


I think I need to put this in plainer English for you. You haven't understood my point. As follows:

If there is any reasonable doubt about whether someone is guilty, we don't kill them.

So, if there is any reasonable doubt about when life begins (which pretty much everyone in this discussion has agreed - i.e., that we can't agree when it might start - some think one thing, someone another), then we shouldn't kill what might be a very small human being.

That clear enough?

Foreigner4:
What if you are wrong NATASIA- just think about that. What if you are wrong?

Well, if I am wrong, someone is born and then as most likely will happen, their mother and/or father will realise that they deserve to be loved, and love them (prostitutes also love their kids, I imagine). And if you are wrong, someone gets killed. So I would prefer the former, because that leaves open the possibilities, whereas your mistake would leave someone dead.


No, but I think the institution that allows this, and the doctor who carries out this procedure, have done something wrong, and against the principles of the doctor's oath to support life.

Personally I didn't feel like a murderer, but I felt that I had failed to defend my child against someone else killing them. I failed in my duty, but the doctor/institution (and by that I mean government as much as the organisation that arranged the operation) - they all went ahead with something very, very wrong.

And yes, I'd love to be able to call the police and ask them to arrest the doctor, the assistants, the head of the organisation, on grounds of unlawful killing, because they misled me, and did not adhere to the terms of the 1967 Abortion Act, and therefore, yes, it was an illegal termination of life. Hmm. Good idea. Will call the police. See what they say.

Life / The "I am never wrong" phenom - is it the Polish thing? [63]


thank you, thank you, i love you, i realise that i am not alone in this wilderness of mad Poles telling me black is white and then hitting me over the head with a horrid sausage ...

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


In a word - No.

If European women did like American men, it would be for:

Their politeness.
The indoctrination (aka American film industry) which has made these men feel it is important to make the bed, cook dinner and worship their female companion, and not get divorced like in Kramer v. Kramer.

The fact that the average wage in the US is 18 dollars an hour, and those who make it into a social circle where they would meet European women are usually loaded, and appreciate the comparatively meagre demands of a European woman compared to a seasoned US female.

Because they are nice, and appreciate a nice woman.

Frankly, I would imagine a European woman would like an American man DESPITE his poor old mutilated schlong, as you call it. Not because of. Except, of course, where she does that thing where she over-compensates for a disability ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I get the feeling you might be more passionate about the act of arguing than about whatever issue is at hand.

Can you factor this into your argument:

In the same way that if there were a genuine question of doubt, a point of debate, over someone's guiltiness of a crime that would carry the death penalty, one would err on the side of caution ... is it not the same where there is, freely acknowledged by most in this current discussion, a point of ambiguity and subjective interpretation over the point at which life begins? Should we not err on the side of caution, respect those who feel life begins at conception, respect and listen to the views of women who have had abortions and later regretted this hugely, and say ... abortion is not a thing into which one should enter lightly? It is not something that we can leave to 'choice'? It is something that should be taken so seriously, that a society says: we would rather not go there. And then does all it can to discourage abortion, and to support women in other ways, so that abortion is not so frequently sought?

If you are wrong, F4 - just think about that. What if you are wrong? What if life begins at conception, and you are saying it is ok for the securely living to extinguish those who have just a feeble grasp on the very beginning of their life ... what if you are saying it is ok to snuff them out, in the interests of 'choice'? Are you ok with that?

Because I wouldn't be. Just because something is small, but distinct, doesn't mean I can trample on it.

Mind you, I would avoid treading on a daisy. Why destroy?

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


in times when there were problems with access to personal hygiene facilities, such as in the desert, or in wartime Britain ... but showers are generally freely available in the States now, I understood?

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


What ON EARTH are you talking about????

What is this idea that a natural one has to be in some way physically repulsive, or smell?????? What kind of crazy world do you live in? That is TOTAL NONSENSE. TOTALLY UNTRUE.

I guess you have no experience of it as nature intended. Well, trust me, it functions beautifully.

Life / The "I am never wrong" phenom - is it the Polish thing? [63]


I have gradually noticed it as a phenomenon over the past 6 years of living exclusively with Poles, and yes, it most certainly is one distinct mode of behaviour. That along with if in doubt, always lie. Haven't got time to list examples now, but will do later ...

And no, of course not all Poles do this, but it is something that some do, assiduously.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]

Look, isn't it obvious that if it is strongly promoted in the US, then it must be making someone some money? Baby foreskins for face cream. That is a new one on me. I will appreciate my costly Chanel cream even more now ...

And another point: doesn't it ABSOLUTELY follow that any guy who is circumcised is going to say that's the best thing to do? But I have to say ... how would he know, if he's never had his own foreskin? (well, only for a short while, before it went in the Nivea)

Circumcision isn't practised (note sp. ; ) in Poland because they don't like the idea of it, and aren't Jewish or of Arab upbringing for the most part. End of.

AND A JOLLY GOOD THING TOO! (that they don't practise it ...)
- in my heathen opinion.

Life / Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland? [701]


??? sorry, but have to disagree ... I would say it is as integral a part of the fusion of two people as the female orgasming ... sine qua non ... without which not ... just not it at all, without the male orgasm. I will restrain myself and not wax lyrical, but suffice to say, the male orgasm is a delightful event for the right-minded female, in my humble opinion.

I know that is a little off-topic, so will add the comment that I am rather for everything being natural and following instinct, and that is why I side with the Poles in their culture of leaving the male entire, rather than trimming him ...

Love / Should I forgive my cheating Polish girlfriend? [73]


Actually, maybe you have a point here.

SMP: I think she said she was moving out to 'get her life together' because she didn't want to be with you. People don't go to the extent of renting a new flat unless they really want out. And they don't move one inch from your side if they love you like you think she loves you. She can't love you like that. If she did, whatever happened between you, she would be stuck to your side like a limpet. Trust me on this one.

And I think she agreed to your still 'dating' just to let you down easy and basically for you to let her out of the door (and perhaps help with suitcases to the road and taxi fare to new flat ; ).

I am sorry, but standing back and detaching your feelings about her from the facts, I think she was really just moving out and getting away from you.

Poles often say 'you can't force anything', and they also say that if someone wants to be with you, they will be, and if they don't, they won't. Sounds so simple it seems obvious, but I think these are facts that you need to accept, and you aren't there yet.

Love / Should I forgive my cheating Polish girlfriend? [73]


Exactly.

It is very hard, but the only way to see who else is out there and free yourself up for some real love is to just cut her out. It goes against our instincts, once we have bonded, to turn away, but sometimes we have to.

And Rysavy is right - there are so many of us nice, kind women out there! Really. Choose one who deserves your attentions.

Love / Should I forgive my cheating Polish girlfriend? [73]


Yep, for sure.

Look, the deal is simple:
You love her. You dote on her. You desperately want it to be true that your love is 'pure' and that despite the emotional roller coaster with her, she knows in her heart that she will never find someone better than you, and she doesn't want to 'risk' losing that.

But it is just that ... your desperate wish. In reality, all of us reading the facts can see that she is out for herself, and no way emotionally mature enough to be happy herself, let alone even begin to want to make you happy.

You love her, so you probably will take her back, if she comes back. I suspect she won't come back. I think she will probably send you some texts/call a few times when she is drunk, and probably also turn up for a bit of sex from time to time, or some money, or for dinner. She will keep you hanging on. You will live your life all around the hope that she will come back begging. But as I say, I suspect she won't. She wants to be out there 'having fun'.

Look, I do understand how intoxicating this injection of Polish vitality can be - oh trust me, boy do I - but if she has gone, the sensible option would be to keep her gone. If/when she comes back, you will be plunged into all this nonsense again, and long-term it will most likely be pretty destructive for your life.

Trying to keep someone like this happy is a thankless task, and an impossible one. This horse is loco ... let it go.

Work / What Jobs are there in Poland for an Englishman besides teaching english? [70]

Why don't you do a job that you can do by email/phone/occasional meetings in the UK/USA/wherever?

Off-Topic / English teachers - 'functioning alcoholics with a superiority complex' [54]

I know, but I did say 'at least' ... better than nothing, and is an intensive course, so in some ways equivalent to a few hours of tuition a week for a year ... a hello of a lot better than nothing.

The ELT books are designed for idiot teachers in mind, you know. No skills are assumed on the part of the T. I should know. Wrote several of them.

Off-Topic / English teachers - 'functioning alcoholics with a superiority complex' [54]


I say, that seems a bit mean!

Ok, you have a point that there are numerous Brits 'teaching' English abroad who do seem to nurse almost daily hangovers, and who have dropped out in one way or another ... but I think nowadays they do actually need some kind of teaching qualification, don't they? Or at least have been on the 4-week TEFL course. Well, any reputable school would require that.

I taught English in a very famous UK school in Poland back in the 1990s, and yes, I saw a very motley crew of Brits in the ranks, particularly at other schools that weren't so fussy in their recruitment. And they all lived in the bars, and spoke pidgin Polish and were a bit embarrassing, really. I went native and pretended I didn't speak English ...

HAVING SAID THAT, I also came across A LOT of Polish English teachers who couldn't actually speak much English. Seriously. Not just the accent - all of the trimmings such as articles, correct tense usage, and other such niceties. They were prepared for lessons and didn't stink of last night's vodka, but the English they were teaching was suspect, to say the least.

But that was ages ago ... I though it must have all changed by now?

One important point, though: nobody can hope to teach a foreign language out of that country (e.g., teach English in Poland) and for students to perfect that language. It is impossible. You have to live in the country of origin to have even a chance of getting to the higher levels of real fluency. So: the aim of learning English in Poland has to be competent communication (someone knows you're not English, but still understands you, and you them). In which case, if those Polish English teachers were just a bit better at English, they would probably best best for the job ... (and I'm sure thousands are, nowadays, 99% perfect at English ...).

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Yes, you have, and you seem to me anyhow to have been consistently clear and coherent! The one I find a little hard to follow is F4 ... not quite sure what engendered the attack on you, as you are actually one of the mildest commentators here. And fairest.

Problem with this subject is that being fair means, in some cases, making the woman in particular take responsibility for something some women want an easy way out of. And carrying a child/giving birth is quite a big thing to have to do as a result of what might have been only a few seconds' liaison, shall we say. And people are scared of insisting on this, as it seems heavy-handed. But there needs to be a boundary, at some point.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


You know, I agree with that. First really sensible suggestion from any of us, including me.

Education is the way. So we should not be showing 9-year-olds awful birth videos, but rather regularly showing them amazing 3D images + films of the developing child in utero. That sounds much more positive, and would presumably build up much more respect for life. And would, in turn, presumably have more effect in making them think twice before having convenience abortions - and/or before having convenience sex ...

Choice, no, is not always good. People talk as if it is, though.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Ok ... but wouldn't the absolute ideal, given the ambiguity (for some) of when life begins, be to make absolute efforts to prevent 'unwanted' pregnancy? Because, to be realistic, a lot of the time we are talking a scenario something like this:

Young woman gets drunk at the time of ovulation, which is a double-whammy as most ovulating women cannot think straight - have only one aim, regardless of whether they recognise it as this or not - and when you add the disability of being drunk, you have the perfect situation for her to sleep with someone - whoever - with absolutely no thought for the consequences. (NB, she doesn't have to be young, or drunk, but quite often is).

[A small note on the ovulating female: women who are on their own hormones rather than taking a hormone-based contraceptive WILL behave differently when they are ovulating. It is a very, very strong instinct - basically, to mate - and a lot of them don't realise it, but those are the few days when they have good hair days, when they feel happy even if if it is raining, when every guy on the street seems to have something nice about him, when their partner or whoever seems particularly delicious, whatever his faults or however badly he has behaved ... They are the days when the neighbour comes over for supper and, seemingly out of character, flirts dreadfully with someone else's husband, even though she only had one glass of wine ... They are the days when other women, not at that moment, look with envy at the glowing one. Do not anybody even attempt to gainsay this, because it is as true as anything ever was.]

So, the hormone-crazed woman, possibly also young and drunk, making her even less sensible, just has to have it. And gets pregnant. And then maybe it isn't the right time, or the right man, or she and her husband already have two lovely children and don't want another because they've had enough of screaming kids ... who knows. But she is in a fix and needs to correct that crazy mistake. And she finds out two weeks' later or so, when she isn't ovulating, when she is calm and sensible and thinking 'straight', and freaks out.

That is the usual scenario. Tell me any different.

So we are saying, that because of her irresponsible actions, someone has to die.

So ... why don't we bring young women up not to spend most of their university nights in the pub, and then having sex? Or, have very strong anti-abortion laws that really scare people, enough to make them think twice? It has to be one, or the other, or both.

But to say 'it is your right to get drunk / have as much sex with whoever as you like / abort as many kids as you like' - it just an open door. Almost an invitation.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


I just don't like the tone of this. I said 'bean' because I have seen a scan at this stage (of my daughter, now 4). It was at 6 weeks and no, it wasn't yet possible to see her arms or legs, but what I saw was like a little jumping bean. The consultant commented on how lively she was. But yes, that was my daughter, in the very early stages of her development. It was her from the moment of conception, and any argument otherwise is pure nonsense.


OK ... so say it for what it is: It is ok for the woman to choose to kill the person she has created, for her pretty much whatever reason she chooses, and even for such a reason as that it doesn't suit her life plan at the moment to allow that other person to live, or that she doesn't like the father. In fact, she almost doesn't have to give a reason: it is her right to 'choose' - not to choose what happens to her body, but to choose whether the other person lives or not. That is the real choice here.

Well, frankly, I think that is a bogus 'right'.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Absolutely. How anyone can think otherwise I find very difficult to understand, apart from in the context of people arguing otherwise because they feel they should be allowing 'choice' to the woman over 'what happens with her body', and therefore they equivocate to give the notion of abortion the chance of not actually being killing a life.

Funny, isn't it, that those pro-'choice' are also the ones who can't agree when life begins, but are fairly certain it doesn't being at conception. Well, not really funny.


Yes, of course, because this is what it is.

But any of us who say that are 'extreme'. I am because I am 'damaged' by having been forced into a termination in my early 20s. You all are because you are just ... stupid? Illiberal? Mad Catholics? Only those who tread the 'middle way' and are 'pro-choice' are the realistic, moral, sensible ones.

Apparently. Or maybe it is as black & white as we say - there is life, there is death/non-life. Nobody argues when a person dies over whether they are really dead or not. It is obvious they are dead. So go watch a 6-week ultrasound scan, see the little bean jumping up and down with life, and say it isn't alive. It is black and white, dead or alive. You terminate it, it isn't alive any more, isn't jumping any more, is gone. That isn't something that can be debated.

Nobody doing ultrasounds talks about life not beginning at conception. There is a heartbeat or not. If there isn't, tough - there is no debating. It just isn't there. And the weirdest thing is, you have people doing ultrasounds and saying 'look - there's the baby! Can you see it? It's tiny!' in one room, and next door practically along the corridor they are handing out abortion pills and not mentioning anything about a life ... 3m makes the difference between whether that baby is a baby, or just something that needs to be got rid of. Now tell me that isn't crazy, double standards ...

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Mostly, the woman isn't overtly told she is 'ending' a life. She is told she is 'terminating a pregnancy'. She specifically is told, if she asks, that the 'fetus' (note no use of words such as baby, unborn child, etc.) isn't alive like you and me and can't feel anything. She is also specifically told nothing about the stage of development he/she is at when the termination will take place.

Basically, everything is done to make her feel she is just having a sensible procedure to halt, at an early stage, a process that might eventually down the line have resulted in her having a baby. She is distanced in every way possible from the reality.

Then after the operation, when in many cases it hits the woman what she has allowed to be done (she has the rest of her life to reflect on it), the abortion company are well gone and not interested - they have cashed their cheque.

That is how it works. So all this 'choice' propaganda has been encouraged and perpetuated to facilitate abortion. Anybody who dares to say that isn't right is tarred as some kind of crazy extremist - which just isn't true. It is, to my mind, one of the biggest and most harmful con-tricks in modern society.


Yes, totally agree. It is unmitigated nonsense to suggest that because a human being starts out tiny that at that stage it isn't a human being because it can't, e.g., see yet. Of course it is a human being - just in the early stage of development. Unfortunately, any creature in the fetal stage is incredibly vulnerable - one would have thought that with our level of civilisation and intelligent 'society', that we would prioritise protection of the unborn to the highest level. How sad that we do not - that quite the opposite - we use the very vulnerability of new life as an excuse to extinguish it, should it not have been created intentionally or at a convenient moment. How shameful of us.