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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 4 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 9 / Live: 5 / Archived: 4
Posts: Total: 12472 / Live: 4727 / Archived: 7745 		From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
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Bratwurst Boy   
29 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

There was an auxillary unit of some sick Ukrainian f*cks, who took luggage from the Jews and some did kick those who walked slowly, but neither of them executed a single person.

Without them kicking and beating them, preventing them from fleeing, leading them straight to the Germans who shot them blah blah blah...

Again, I'm not the one denying our part!

but it doesn't mean that you have to carve out and twist facts to make your point.

No twisting necessary...

This is true to a certain extent, but it also has to be said that most of mainland Europe was occupied by Germany so in most if not all cases, the authorities didnt have much of a choice with regards to the deportation of Jews.

Look at a map of Europe Shelley,

The german army was busy fighting, the Germans had only so many people available for occupational duty...without willing helpers and collaborateurs everywhere they could have done not much!

The Germans were NOT the almighty "Übermenschen" ;)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Not only are you funny but also sweet!

I am NOT funny and I am NOT sweet!!! *stomps foot*

ask Torq

Given that Wiesenthal has incomplete records and goes after killers of Jews only thats woefully incomplete.

Well, that's about the Germans...as you have seen the institute has it's eyes on non-Germans still too!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Oh - don't make it too easy for me, please ;) I didn't mean the most prominent of them.

Yes, that's the numbers....200.000 german sick fucks.....and Wiesenthal had decades to get his numbers rights.
They wanted them all, not only the top dogs...till down to the little bureaucrates and Einsatzgruppen-alcoholic!

What's "polish idiocy"? Explain, please :-)

Nikaish idiocy...more precisely...

We should end up with a higher number of sickf**ks, right?

At least as much...but think about it.
I once watched a horrifying movie about the massacre in Babi Jar...around the poor sods on their way to the place where they would shot there was maybe a handful of german soldiers...but hundreds of brutal Ukrainians/whatever with clubs beating the Jews....many more than the Germans.
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

In 1939 there were about 70 million people in the III Reich, right?

The Wiesenthal center gives out a number of 200.000 german sick *****....not 70 Millions.

Now if we add every eastern peasant with a shovel we would get at least as many...

Just for example, on June 27, 1941, a colonel in the staff of the Germany's Northern Army Group in the Lithuanian city of Kaunas passed a petrol station surrounded by a crowd of people. There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view.
The officer stepped closer and later wrote down what he had seen.

*mods - sorry for that little Polish chat, it's nothing nasty*

Rofl
As if it isn't quite easy to translate your crap....polish idiocy showing again?

And yes, I actually like Poles and call Torqi my chum!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

But if it makes you feel better - whatever.

I'm full in my "mud-slinging"-mood...yeah it makes me feel better.

The project was German and you found some sickf*cks throughout Europe to help
you execute it under your close supervision.

Agreed!
Man, that was a heavy fight to come to that...*rolls eyes*

10 to 1 sick fucks....makes 11 sick fucks with my math...
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Btw - I can understand (or at least I can try to understand) how uncomfortable
the knowledge of what your ancestors did must be to you.

Well, I'm a German - meaning I can face up to it.
You as a Pole prove to be to weak and to cowardly...

Torq, an interesting list about non-German holocaust helpers:
FACTBOX-Wiesenthal Center's top 10 WW2 war criminals

FACTBOX-Wiesenthal Center's top 10 WW2 war criminals

Nov 30 (Reuters) - Accused Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk goes on trial in Munich on Monday to face charges he participated in the killing of 27,900 Jews in 1943.

Demjanjuk is number one on a list of 10 most-wanted war criminals compiled by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, according to a statement issued in April 2

Start to accept the reality Torqi, it was a European project!
Without your peoples enthusiastic help it wouldn't had been possible!!!
Just take for example your beloved friends, the Hungarians:

....A few days later, Ruthenia, Upper Hungary, and Northern Transylvania were placed under military command; these territories contained an additional 320,000 Jews. On April 9, Prime Minister Döme Sztójay and the Germans obligated Hungary to place at the disposal of the Reich 300,000 Jewish laborers. Five days later, on April 14, Endre, Baky, and Eichmann decided to deport all the Jews of Hungary.

The devotion to the cause of the "final solution" of the Hungarian gendarmes surprised even Eichmann himself, who supervised the operation with only twenty officers and a staff of 100, which included drivers, cooks, etc.[13]

/wiki/Hungarian_Jews#Toward_the_Holocaust

That was the reality...Germans ordering, supervising but the dirty ground work done by the Eastern Europeans themselves, no force needed whatsoever.
Germany could never had achieved much without your help!

However, you should find some different way of dealing with
the almost unbearable load of the sins of your fathers than by looking for other
nations to blame and point fingers at. ROFL
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

BB is a perfect example of what a German really thinks, but doesn't say out loud,

Well...more precise would be: MOST GERMANS GIVE A SH'IT!

How many Germans do you know here on PF to discuss things with you???

Oh and lady...just in case the reality flew you by....we are living now in the European Union, no borders anymore....we HAVE our Lebensraum already, more than ever before!

And not one shot fired....to the contrary people like Poles said THANK YOU for letting us in!

But I hate cowardice, that much is true..

As for throwing the word "cowards" at us so easily, I wouldn't do it if I were a descendant
of murderers of women and little babies on an industrial scale.

What, if the shoe fits...

You spend way too much time on that dodgy Iloveadolfandotheraxistwatsforum.com site.

Don't tell me it isn't true that mean, bad Germany always was the preferred country to run to for Poles through the centuries!

(Lot's of 'skis doing the murdering of women and little babies too btw.)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

This gets confusing.

It's easy:

Poles/Sokrates = lying loud mouth

Bratwurst boy = honest and serious, keeping to facts

;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees#The_federation_today
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees#Presidents
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Like how the cities you stole from us for 100 years have always been German?

Without german build towns, german industrializtion of Silesia and everything you would still be just some dumb peasant. Probably bullying an Ukrainian for some breadcrumb.

Not to mention that Germany granted your folks for centuries a place to find work and education. Hundred of thousands of Polacks couldn't wait to leave your sorry hole for Germany during the centuries. The biggest Polonia in the world is in mean, bad Germany!

Never the other way around...wonder why?

Killed an ukrainian recently?

Lying cowards!

Prussia was good for you - we should just annex you again and be done with it!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Poles are so full of lies it's unbelievable: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Expellees

In February 2009, the Polish paper Polska wrote that over one third of the Federation top officials were former Nazi activists, and based this on an article published by the German magazine Der Spiegel in 2006.[1]
The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung wrote that Der Spiegel said this not in respect to the Federation of Expellees, but in respect to a predecessor organization that was dissolved in 1957.

Liars and cowards!
And in the case of Sokrates also big mouths with nothing else....
(But then, Poles probably need their big mouths to hide their emptiness behind it)
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Yes, Torq WE know about it....why don't you read some of the links I posted to get YOUR own history straight and cut the crap about the "heroic polish masses"?

Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

10 to 1, Torq!

10 enthusiastic helpers for every German...of course now loudly screaming "we are innocent - it was all the germans"

There is only one thing worse than a criminal, lying, denying and not facing up...a coward!

The coming years will bring out much more of these dreary facts and uncomfortable history...the research has just started...if you sputted at "Neighbours" or "Fear" already there is much more to come.

Fear-Anti-Semitism-Poland-After-Auschwitz

Gross notes that when the Germans were trying to put down the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Poles-including children-not only cheered as Jewish snipers were spotted and killed but gleefully showed the Germans where Jews were hiding.

Will be interesting to watch you throwing tantrums and spouting about "anti-polish propaganda" or "anti-polish jewish conspiracy"...;)

As the slaughter of Jews began, police and military officials either joined in the outrages or refused to intervene. In succeeding years, with the complicity of Communist authorities, the position of the remaining Polish Jews continued to deteriorate.

By 1949, the goal of the Nazis had been achieved: Poland was essentially free of Jews.

See the date???

End
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

in the world, we have never stained ourselves with the kind of thing you did not because we're inefficient but because we're human beings.

Yeah...you and your kind are repeating that over and over....only to protest soon against another kind of percieved "anti-polish propaganda" just because the Jews themselves and the rest of the world laughs about your presumption!

i'm glad your nation is in such decline, maybe at one point history will return the favor you once delivered.

Rofl, we are ruling Europe with you Poles living on handouts....not much changed, and not much will change ever!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Great grandson of murderers pointing fingers?:)

Not shifting the blame..you Poles are not able to do something so sophisticated on your own.
Building a modern factory to kill people is a german thing to do, smart engineers that we are...you Poles and other eastern Europeans preferred shovels and batons!

Even after the mass killing was already over..

No shifting needed, all facts:

In the killing fields of Eastern Europe, there were up to 10 local helpers for every German policeman. The ratio is similar in the extermination camps.

Oh, and thanks for your help btw.

And isn't it interesting that after the war the few surving Jews fled the "heroic polish masses" westwards? TO GERMANY???

...
The pogrom in Kielce was one of the factors that led to a mass westward migration of hundreds of thousands of Jews who had survived the Holocaust.
Known as the Brihah, this movement brought Jews from Poland and other countries of eastern Europe to displaced persons camps located...

!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Ooops...some more of those heroic polish masses:

abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7643897&page=3

....
Denunciation was so common in Poland that there was a special term for paid informants "Szmalcowniki" (previously a term for a fence). In many cases, the denouncers knew their victims.

From the same issue of "Tygodnik Powszechny" - the drawings of an unknown author

Maybe we are not on the same page here...all you bring about the German crimes are open "secrets", EVERYBODY and their grandmom knows about, no sane German will deny them...but compared to you we had the guts to face up to them. There are memorials, documentations abundance about it.

It's YOU who need to put away your blinders.
The holocaust could never had happened without the often enthusiastic help of those who were the neighbours of the about to be murdered Jews in Eastern Europe.
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#The_Holocaust:_German-occupied_Poland

"Was it inevitable that the Jews, looking their last on this world as they rode in the death trains speeding from different parts of the country to Treblinka or other places of slaughter, should have had to witness indifference or even joy on the faces of their neighbors?

In the summer of 1942, when carts packed with captive Jewish men, women and children moved through the streets of the capital, did there really need to be laughter from the wild mobs resounding from the other side of the ghetto walls, did there really have to prevail such blank indifference in the face of the greatest tragedy of all time?"

Quoted in Antony Polonsky & Joanna B. Michlic
Yeah...those heroic masses...

holocaustsurvivors.org/data.show.php?di=record&da=encyclopedia&ke=107

...Jewish Holocaust survivors grew up in Poland in the 1920's and 1930's and survived in Poland of the 1940's. Their memories in the present are based on what were current events back then. Their experience of Poland ended when they left the country; and most either never returned after WWII or left after the massacre of 42 Jews in Kielce by a Polish mob in 1946.Poland was a very anti-Semitic society in the years just before and after WWII.

It is hard to know how many Poles had sympathy for their Jewish neighbors but were paralyzed into inaction by fear.Yet incidents described above were frequent enough that it was a common Jewish perception of Polish attitudes that they were either indifferent to Jewish suffering or positively glad that the Jews were being removed.

Oh those heroic polish masses!
Bratwurst Boy   
28 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

That too...

But on the other side trying to make amends with the real victims and somewhat repay them (even if that can never be enough) it's okay with me...it's all these hangers-on and freeloader who grate on my nerves, third generation-to late, who never experienced anything, but feel obliged to wiggle their fat fingers into a Germans face whenever they feel so, probably because once in a year they discover their love for Jews and think they have now some leverage against Germany.

Get lost all!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Axishistory forum? Is it something like an Adolf/Benito/All-the-Lesser-Axis-Twats Fanclub?

Well....if Axishistory isn't good enough for you, here a jewish news site:

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3774804,00.html

Oh and Nika...another Poll just for you: encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-20748312.html

Most Israeli Jews satisfied with Germany's attitude towards Holocaust

It's people like you they can't stand....wonder why!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

oh, so it's Versaille that's responsible for Holocaust? That's something new.....

Well...it left an otherwise unimportant painter in Vienna itching for revenge.
And many Germans now being made homeless by new borders just waiting for someone like him.

What was your grade in history Nika?

yeah. let's go back to the dinosaurs era.
if they didn't die out there would be no people now..no people= no wars

Well...you started this game!

Well, we have a couple of Jews on this board - let's ask them who do they blame
for the Holocaust and who do they think were worse - Germans or Poles. They might
be able to provide accurate information about the attitudes of people in Israel (their
parents and grandparents as well).

forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=159764

....
He believes that one factor in this recent shift has been a growing trend of Israelis visiting death camps in Poland. As a result, he said, Israelis place a large part of the blame for the Holocaust on Poles instead of Germans.

In a poll he ran last year, a quarter of Israelis said they thought that Poles were as responsible as Germans for the Holocaust.

*shrug*

radziejow.blogspot.com/2009/09/post-world-war-ii-poland-and.html

...
Nazi policies toward the Jews, the legendary underground Polish diplomat Jan Karski reported to his government-in-exile in London in 1940, formed "a sort of narrow bridge where the Germans and a large part of Polish society meet in harmony."

It wasn't only Karski saying so. Eyewitnesses in the Warsaw ghetto saw Poles watching approvingly or even helping out, acting as spotters as German soldiers shot Jews. Polish girls were overheard joking, "Come, look, how cutlets from Jews are frying," as the ghetto burned.

Nazi accounts of Judenjagd, or "Jew hunts," detailed how Poles pitched in to find any stray Jews the Germans somehow managed to miss. As the deportations proceeded, and practically before the trains had left for Chelmno or Belzec or Treblinka, Poles gathered on the outskirts of towns, waiting to plunder Jewish property or move into Jewish homes.

Karski a liar too...in some twilight zone???
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Whereas you repeat the mantra of the heroic mass of Poles with only a few bad apples?
Why is it that the Jews have it mostly the other way around???

There are much more stories like these around....if you don't like them, don't accept them it isn't my problem.

The Participation of Poles in Crimes Against Jews
in the Świętokrzyskie Region

....
Although more than sixty years have passed since the events under discussion,
one would be hard pressed to discover deeper reflection on the story
either by the main characters, or even those who were just spectators.

An overwhelming picture of almost complete indifference to the
fate of the murdered Jews emerges from the interviews. If some emo-
tion surfaces in them, it is rather a dislike of the murdered victims and
only rarely of the murderers.

More often than not, the antipathy to the murderers stems from animosity between neighbors, or suspicion of getting rich "from Jewish gold," rather than because of the crimes committed against the Jew.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

There was no enthusiastic help of Polish population in general as you are trying
to suggest.

I try nothing to suggest!

I bring links to witness reports....sorry they don't fit your rosy view either...
And yes...the Einsatzgruppen were send for killing Jews, communist leaders and other hostile subjects. They got lists and set to work.

The mass killings in the camps didn't gear up really before 1943/44...stop mixing things up.

....
In most East European countries, where the bulk of the Jewry resided, the German received ample help from the local population. In Poland, the Jews were beaten, blackmailed, robbed, denounced. Peasants caught runaway Jews, bound them like pigs and delivered them to the Gestapo in exchange for a liter of vodka and a kilogram of sugar. Jews hiding in forests were outright killed.
The Polish underground Army, passed many death sentences on Polish collaborators, but denunciation of Jews was never punished. Poles rejoiced when the Warsaw Ghetto was burning. "The Jewish bedbugs are finally torched."

In Warsaw there was a saying: "The whole world will throw stones at Hitler's grave, we will send flowers, grateful for removing the Jews from Poland."

by Alexander Kimel - Holocaust Survivor

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

Whatever you say BB, it won't change

Yeah...Nika...why does that not surprise me coming from you!
Your current version of the Holocaust is so much nicer for you, isn't it? So much easier to point a righteous finger to the Germans...thinking yourself all squeaky clean.

But don't be surprised if in books, newspapers or TV you see another "anti-polish propaganda" mentioning your own historical faults.

Most of the historians don't have your blinders...(probably because they aren't polish in the first place).

Whatever you say BB, it won't change the fact that if it wasn't for the Germans, all these millions of people would be alive.

Yeah...like in Kielce, right?

The only pogrom where Jews were murdered after the liberation of Auschwitz and the end of the Holocaust!

You never needed Germans for killing Jews!
Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

"Nazis couldn't do it without your people's enthusiastic help"

Well no, they couldn't.

Do you know the number of Einsatzgruppen members? 3000 man!
Do you really believe those few men could have killed so many people on their own???
Wherever they went they found easily enthusiastic helpers who also spoke the language and could point out the Jews to the Germans, hunting them for their masters...

The Germans alone would had been lost with this task in eastern Europe all by themselves.

In western Europe it was not much different! In France the french militia rounded up their Jews for transport even WITHOUT having been asked too.

All such stuff what is of course hidden away and taboo with many...the bad Germans did it all of course...WE are innocent little angels! Ha!

..
It's difficult for me to write about Poles. What is happening today is the greatest disillusionment that I have endured in my life. I have lived for twenty-six years among the Poles, embraced Polish culture and literature, loved Poland, looked on her as another motherland, and only in the last year have I recognized the true faces of Poles.

I would gladly describe the facts of every noble behavior toward Jews, but I cannot be silent in the face of the vileness of those who, out of desire for profit or out of blind hatred, sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

I really don't want to discuss this here with you...

There is enough material out there, for those who want to see that is...for those who don't no book or researched article will be enough.

You have along way to go still.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/pole2jew.html

....Shortly before his death in 1944, he entrusted the diary to a Polish friend. The document was eventually given to the Yad Vashem Archives. It was published in Hebrew in 1993 and in English in 1996.

I would like to characterize the attitudes of Poles toward Jews and, in general, toward the acts of extermination of Jews.
The lower classes of the townspeople as well as the peasants oriented themselves to which-ever way the wind was blowing. They understood that they had an opportunity to enrich themselves, one that came only in a great while.
One could pillage without penalty, steal, kill people, so that many using the slogan "now or never" got to work. They raised their hands to heaven, thankful for the favor that they had lived to see such times...

They considered themselves innocent. After all, the Germans were responsible.

Not much changed till now, has it....

"The one and immortal favor by the Germans toward the Poles is the fact that they had cleansed her of Jews."

....
One has to look truth squarely in the eye.
Jews perished first of all because they didn't realize in time what level German cruelty and barbarism would reach.
They were well aware, however, of the vileness of some Poles. They knew what it was that closed before them the gates of the Polish neighborhood and forced them to wait in the ghetto for the near and inevitable sentence of death.

Bratwurst Boy   
27 Jan 2010
History / remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland [231]

"We will not allow Holocaust deniers and desecrators of grave stones to erase or distort the memory."

I think he meant you Nika!
You are in total denial about your own peoples part in it...compared to Germans!

Was it inevitable that the Jews, looking their last on this world as they rode in the death trains speeding from different parts of the country to Treblinka or other places of slaughter, should have had to witness indifference or even joy on the faces of their neighbors?

In the summer of 1942, when carts packed with captive Jewish men, women and children moved through the streets of the capital, did there really need to be laughter from the wild mobs resounding from the other side of the ghetto walls, did there really have to prevail such blank indifference in the face of the greatest tragedy of all time?"

/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#cite_note-110