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Polish & Prussian/German town name cross-reference.


Kent Activity: 4 / 6
Joined: 30 Mar 2008 ♂
 
11 Apr 2008  #1

Does any one know of a good cross reference for Polish towns that may have been renamed under Prussian/German occupation? I have found several town names on documents from that period that I can not find on todays maps. Either the towns no longers exist, changed their names or the document is using the Prussian/German name on the document.

Thanks



Polonius3 Activity: 948 / 11,410
Joined: 11 Apr 2008 ♂
 
11 Apr 2008  #2

A partial lsit is found at:
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niemieckie_nazwy_polskich_miejscowo%C5%9Bci


OP Kent Activity: 4 / 6
Joined: 30 Mar 2008 ♂
 
11 Apr 2008  #3

Thanks Polonius3, this will be very helpful.


Slovicgirl  
1 May 2010  #4

My great grandparents came from Prussia. Great Gr father last name was "Prain" probably prehn originally but don't know. His wife Great Gr mother last name was "Unka" maybe "Yonka" question:1. Are Prussians part Russian? 2. Is "Unka" a Russian name?3. How about "Prain"? 4. What are Prussians, part Polish, Russian and German? Appreciate any help Slovicgirl


skysoulmate Activity: 15 / 1,291
Joined: 10 Jan 2010 ♂
 
1 May 2010  #5

I'll just answer the Russian question...

Prussians are definitely not part Russians - if anything they're Germans.

It's a simplified answer as the original Prussians no longer exist. They were Baltic people related to the Lithuanians and Latvians (NOT Russians).

The region is pretty much split between Poland and Russia today but has been it's own country for many years and the capital was Königsberg which today is called Kaliningrad (Królewiec i Polish). For a very long time Prussia was also part of Germany. Confusing enough? Welcome to European history... ;)

Prussia is the English term. In Polish it's called Prusy and in German it's called Preußen.

Then

---
Just check out this link below and maybe it'll help...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia


Trevek Activity: 28 / 1,716
Joined: 21 May 2008 ♂
 
1 May 2010  #6

This one is pretty good too.
kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp


Bratwurst Boy Activity: 5 / 7,948
Joined: 2 Apr 2007 ♂
 
1 May 2010  #7

Welcome to European history... ;)

Heh:)


AdamKadmon Activity: 2 / 518
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 ♂
 
1 May 2010  #8

There is a name of a tree which is purely polish, i.e. spruce, sonding 100% Polish and meaning literally coming form Prussia.

This is what about the word origin says etymology:

Spruce: lit. "from Prussia," from Spruce, Sprws (late 14c.). Spruce seems to have been a generic term for commodities brought to England by Hanseatic merchants (beer, board, leather, and the tree was believed to have come from Prussia.

Also in Norman Davies's book God's playground: a history of Poland
The name of the spruce tree is supposed to derive from the Polish words z Prus 'from Prussia'


Stache  
29 Jan 2013  #9

Prussia is definitely NOT part of Russia. All Germans from Pommerania, East Prussia, West Prussia, Schlesien, and Brandenburg were called Prussians. Prussians are GERMAN.


ShortHairThug Activity: - / 1,099
Joined: 1 May 2009 ♂
 
29 Jan 2013  #10

The Baltic Prussians are long gone.


laddie1971  
29 Mar 2015  #11

Anyone heard of a town named £ipsalde, Prussia. My great great grandfather was from there.


Yuri Andropov Activity: - / 1
Joined: 29 Mar 2015 ♂
 
29 Mar 2015  #12

Prussians are German? Not at all. There were many nationalities living in Prussia. Western Prussia areas were inhabited by Slavs. In current Eastern Germany toponyms literally scream-I used to be Slavic in the past.

Slavs were living on territories where today such cities like Berlin, Leipzig or Dresden exist.


Dorchie  
17 May 2016  #13

My great grandfather (born around 1870) indicated on some official forms that he came from Dembne, Marchawa. Bear in mind that someone else was typing his words and the old boy had a thick accent! So the spelling might be very different. He also listed his birthplace as Posen on his marriage certificate.


Lyzko Activity: 11 / 2,213
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 ♂
 
17 May 2016  #14

For the umpteenth time, Prussians were Balts long settled in German territory:-)


Ironside Activity: 41 / 7,305
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 ♂
 
17 May 2016  #15

Dembne, Marchawa

Could be Dębno, Dębie ....


Dorchie  
17 May 2016  #16

Thanks Ironside. ...will look at these.


Michał  
18 May 2016  #17

Dorchie
Posen is the German name for Poznan, that's the only thing I can tell you, but I don't know what Dembne is :(. But it doesn't sound German, so it has to be the polish name for that town. You should search within the borders of the grandduchy of posen, you'll find it on wikipedia


Ziemowit Activity: 5 / 2,025
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
18 May 2016  #18

Most probably Dębno in gmina Stęszew, 19 km south-west of Poznań (Posen). At the end of the 19th century, the village had 15 farmsteads with 173 inhabitants of which 161 declared themselves as Catholics.


gregy741 Activity: 5 / 1,393
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
18 May 2016  #19

Prussia is definitely NOT part of Russia. All Germans from Pommerania, East Prussia, West Prussia, Schlesien, and Brandenburg were called Prussians. Prussians are GERMAN.

lol..depends what period of history we talking about.
prussians belong to baltic group,same as Estonians and Finnish people.there were last pagans of Europe,conquered and germanized by teutonic order.
after TO conquered them,they converted them to Catholicism and started process of germanization. which was gradual.even in 19 century old prussian language was still present in rural areas.
prussians were not german tribes..prussian are germanized balts
silezians were partly germanized slavs..from silezia came idea of creating polish state..it was birthplace of Poland. area was settled by germans after mongol invasion and gradually germanized.ahhh..cant be bothered talking to ignorants


Ziemowit Activity: 5 / 2,025
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
18 May 2016  #20

even in 19 century old prussian language was still present in rural areas.

This is utterly sensational news. Can you point to any source?

from silezia came idea of creating polish state..it was birthplace of Poland

I have always thought the birthplace of Poland was Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) and not Silesia. At the death of the first Piast ruler, Mieszko I (992), the borders of Poland were roughly the same as today.

area was settled by germans after mongol invasion and gradually germanized.ahhh..cant be bothered talking to ignorants

It actually started quite a time before the Mongol invasion of 1241.


gregy741 Activity: 5 / 1,393
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
18 May 2016  #21

This is utterly sensational news. Can you point to any source?

probably from historycy.org..i will find you source later.would need to dig abit.
At the death of the first Piast ruler, Mieszko I (992), the borders of Poland were roughly the same as today.

he was chosen as strongest leader,but idea came from silesian nobility..before that silesia was kinda bohemian province.by far most rich and socially organized than rest of Poland.
It actually started quite a time before the Mongol invasion of 1241.

well..am talking about large scale immigration of germans into silesia..it was introduced german law,exempting german settles from taxes.thus attracting large scale german settlements.reason was depopulation of silesia after mongol invasion.


gregy741 Activity: 5 / 1,393
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
18 May 2016  #22

his is utterly sensational news. Can you point to any source?

donelaitis.vdu.lt/prussian/lang.htm
found in many sites...extinct completely in 16-18 century,tho there were some attempts to recreate it in 19 century and some form of old Prussian existed in local dialects.


mgpell  
23 May 2016  #23

I have a wedding certificate written in German with the following two place names in Poland mentioned as places of birth of the celebrants:
Stepnica in Rufold [sic. for doubts about Rufold spelling see below]
Meseritz (Rufold)

I am trying to work out the location of Meseritz since there seem to be at least three locations with the same Germanized spelling of meseritz (western poland, eastern poland, and western ukraine). Does the addition of Rufold add any clues? I am not sure if I have transcribed that word correctly. The u has a circle above it ("ring above") and the f could be the German ss.
Can anyone help me here please?
Thanks
Gaby


mgpell  
23 May 2016  #24

Forgot to add that the wedding certificate is from 1913


Ziemowit Activity: 5 / 2,025
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
23 May 2016  #25

This 'Meseritz' is most probably the town "Międzyrzec", now in Lubuskie voivodship. Międzyrzec was Polish until 1793, but then became Prussian in the result of the second partition of Poland. It continued to be Prussian after the WWI, however, even if the most part of the Wielkopolska province became Polish again.


mgpell  
24 May 2016  #26

Thanks for the response. So how can I be sure that it isn't Międzyrzec Podlaski which apparently would also be germanized as "Meseritz"?
Does the Rufold in brackets after the town names of Stepnica and Meseritz in the marriage certificate mean anything to you?


Ziemowit Activity: 5 / 2,025
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
24 May 2016  #27

Why do you think that Międzyrzec Podlaski would also be germanized as "Meseritz"?


Ziemowit Activity: 5 / 2,025
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
24 May 2016  #28

Does the Rufold in brackets after the town names of Stepnica and Meseritz in the marriage certificate mean anything to you?

If you put the scan of this marriage certificate, it would help perhaps.


ubbumgardner  
17 Jun 2016  #29

My mother and all her family (both sides) were from East Prussia. She always saw herself as ethnically German. Her family spoke German and were Lutheran. Most of her family was killed, sent to Siberian or fled at the end of the Second World War. She told me that one of her grandmothers was Lithuianian and some of her family may have come from Sweden years ago. However, after a recend DNA test, I found I was 47% Eastern European and only 2% German. I wonder what she would have thought of that result.


dolnoslask Activity: - / 562
Joined: 19 Mar 2016 ♂
 
17 Jun 2016  #30

I'm pretty sure that she would have thought that she had a wonderful child that she loved very much, I don't think the DNA test would have mattered to her , the fact that some your family survived Siberia (Like mine did) is the most important and valuable factor here,.




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Polish & Prussian/German town name cross-reference.
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