Bratwurst Boy
23 May 2010
Bratwurst Boy
22 May 2010
Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]
Poles and Germans were mixing for ages...Slavs became germanized/Germanics became polonizised as the nation states were build.
Especially the region of Silesia was in their majority german and towns like Krakow were settled after the Mongol raids nearly purely by german settlers who became later polonized...you can't differentiate between them anymore.
Even one of Polands most famous sons, Copernikus, was an ethnical German!
The same with famous Steit Voss...
It's true though Poland did everything to expell their Germans, Jews, whatever (as the emigration waves during the 60s, 70s and 80s show) but to believe that there are no genes anymore left is just stupid!
(And alone the fact that there were still millions left to emigrate shows that the expellations after the war had been everything but complete)
You can get the people who prefer another culture (germanized Poles or Germans) out of your country but hardly the genetics of polonized germanics...
PS: The expellation of Germans has nothing to do with the Marshall plan which was a financial help boost from the US to several european countries.
Poles and Germans were mixing for ages...Slavs became germanized/Germanics became polonizised as the nation states were build.
Especially the region of Silesia was in their majority german and towns like Krakow were settled after the Mongol raids nearly purely by german settlers who became later polonized...you can't differentiate between them anymore.
Even one of Polands most famous sons, Copernikus, was an ethnical German!
The same with famous Steit Voss...
It's true though Poland did everything to expell their Germans, Jews, whatever (as the emigration waves during the 60s, 70s and 80s show) but to believe that there are no genes anymore left is just stupid!
(And alone the fact that there were still millions left to emigrate shows that the expellations after the war had been everything but complete)
You can get the people who prefer another culture (germanized Poles or Germans) out of your country but hardly the genetics of polonized germanics...
PS: The expellation of Germans has nothing to do with the Marshall plan which was a financial help boost from the US to several european countries.
Bratwurst Boy
22 May 2010
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
Now, how about:
...and be done with these endless, boring, tedious discussions!
There may have been a few rogue Poles that participated in unsavoury activity but they are very much in the minority.
Now, how about:
There may have been a few rogue Jews that participated in unsavoury activity but they are very much in the minority.
...and be done with these endless, boring, tedious discussions!
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
Well...who needs reasons....;)
Well...who needs reasons....;)
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
We don't discriminate...we feel superior to everybody, equally! :)
We don't discriminate...we feel superior to everybody, equally! :)
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
My smileys are now where my helmet is....in the dark dungeon of the horrible Admin!
My smileys are now where my helmet is....in the dark dungeon of the horrible Admin!
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
So...we have a terrorist between us???
I've been to Guantanamo several times
So...we have a terrorist between us???
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
Well, the world does! How do you call them? "Cuban concentration camps"???
I guess we should call Guantanamo "American concentration camps".
Well, the world does! How do you call them? "Cuban concentration camps"???
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
Make it quick please!
Make it quick please!
Bratwurst Boy
17 May 2010
News / "POLISH death camps" term used by "Parade Magazine" Anti-Polish Bigots [249]
Blame the Germans!...*offers himself as sacrifice for peace between Jews and Poles*
Blame the Germans!...*offers himself as sacrifice for peace between Jews and Poles*
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Well...that is Germany and we love our Poles but the issue here was the US-army! ;)
I mean, you are German and the German army has never been hesitant about letting Poles join it!
Well...that is Germany and we love our Poles but the issue here was the US-army! ;)
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Of course! :)
Case cleared at last! *phew*
Of course! :)
Case cleared at last! *phew*
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Cubans??? From the isolated, boycotted Cuba, the US "arch enemy"???
I now believe in a misunderstanding...Those Cubans were surely immigrants, refugees, right?
The Poles very probably too...
*nods*
Now that I already know of and that sounds reasonable. As serving in the US army is a good way to earn the US-citizenship.
But it was somehow implied here that it was possible to serve while still being a REAL polish citizen...;)
There were other Poles, Cubans, etc.
Cubans??? From the isolated, boycotted Cuba, the US "arch enemy"???
I now believe in a misunderstanding...Those Cubans were surely immigrants, refugees, right?
The Poles very probably too...
However, to enlist a non-citizen must have a greencard and be permamently residing in the United States.
*nods*
Now that I already know of and that sounds reasonable. As serving in the US army is a good way to earn the US-citizenship.
But it was somehow implied here that it was possible to serve while still being a REAL polish citizen...;)
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Just a question Jola, 1982 the official polish nation was still firmly the enemy. The cold war and all that...
What did the communist polish government say to one of it's citizens flying for the "enemy"?
I have a hard time believing that if I'm honest.
On the other hand I can also hardly believe that such a controlled unit like the military of the US opened it's door for polish, russian, east-german or whatever eastern bloc nationals, their enemies after all.
Tell me more about it please...I've never heard of that...
The same question to you too Marek...
(All rules changed after '89 and the demise of the eastern bloc)
PS: I know that serving in the US-army is a way to earn your US-passport. But that would mean that you were already immigrated into the US with the plan to become an USian.
You weren't in the US army as a polish citzen under the polish communist government as it seemed implied here...
Just a question Jola, 1982 the official polish nation was still firmly the enemy. The cold war and all that...
What did the communist polish government say to one of it's citizens flying for the "enemy"?
I have a hard time believing that if I'm honest.
On the other hand I can also hardly believe that such a controlled unit like the military of the US opened it's door for polish, russian, east-german or whatever eastern bloc nationals, their enemies after all.
Tell me more about it please...I've never heard of that...
M-G I was and I am Polish citizen and I was in U.S.Army 1987-1991 and at a time I was not U.S citizen
The same question to you too Marek...
(All rules changed after '89 and the demise of the eastern bloc)
PS: I know that serving in the US-army is a way to earn your US-passport. But that would mean that you were already immigrated into the US with the plan to become an USian.
You weren't in the US army as a polish citzen under the polish communist government as it seemed implied here...
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
It must help....I should try something of this myself! :)
I admit...I'm not polish and hence I really seem to have problems to grasp your reasoning.
I have numbers and stats and (typically German) I have to go by that....poor me! :(
We are not all crazy but it helps :)
It must help....I should try something of this myself! :)
Still haven’t fully grasp the time period idea, have you?
I admit...I'm not polish and hence I really seem to have problems to grasp your reasoning.
I have numbers and stats and (typically German) I have to go by that....poor me! :(
Bratwurst Boy
13 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
You surely mean they purged themselves...
You are all crazy you know that?
Unlike Poles Jews were encouraged and allowed to leave by their brethren in power.
You surely mean they purged themselves...
You are all crazy you know that?
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Why?
Explain to me why you are blaming the Jews for the communism in Poland...
I've brought numbers and info...they speak to me that the numbers of the Jews were just to tiny and that they were always shrinking...no jewish paradise at all.
No, I'm really interested...gimme some reasoning please. I want to know how your polish mind ticks because till now I just don't get it.
All facts speak against your "The mean Jews oppressed us"-theory...
Only a conclusion an uninformed person would make.
Why?
Explain to me why you are blaming the Jews for the communism in Poland...
I've brought numbers and info...they speak to me that the numbers of the Jews were just to tiny and that they were always shrinking...no jewish paradise at all.
Still a little miffed about this morning where you came out all guns blazing without any ammo? Get over it.
No, I'm really interested...gimme some reasoning please. I want to know how your polish mind ticks because till now I just don't get it.
All facts speak against your "The mean Jews oppressed us"-theory...
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Well, you kept it till 1989 too as I remember....first the Jews did all the opressing and communisting now you were at least braver as the Eastern Germans? What next? ;)
The numbers say that the partaking of Jews was minimal (there weren't that many left and of those most would leave over the next decades - also pointing AGAINST a "jewish paradise").
That's leaves pure Poles...yes, sometimes it's that easy!
And?
No eastern german troops helping to destroy the Prague Spring but polish tanks...if that's what you mean?
Oopsie....am I destroying a polish myth here? About the brave polish anti-communist resisters who grumble every day at home against their jewish opressors???
I really would like to know where they were all the time till '89....
It's a fact that East Germans embraced Communism more enthusiastically than Poles ever did. If not for a Russians communism would be some fringe party nobody takes seriously in Poland.
Well, you kept it till 1989 too as I remember....first the Jews did all the opressing and communisting now you were at least braver as the Eastern Germans? What next? ;)
Face it, you know nothing about who was terrorizing who.
The numbers say that the partaking of Jews was minimal (there weren't that many left and of those most would leave over the next decades - also pointing AGAINST a "jewish paradise").
That's leaves pure Poles...yes, sometimes it's that easy!
I might be shocking to you, but Poland was not Germany.
And?
No eastern german troops helping to destroy the Prague Spring but polish tanks...if that's what you mean?
Oopsie....am I destroying a polish myth here? About the brave polish anti-communist resisters who grumble every day at home against their jewish opressors???
I really would like to know where they were all the time till '89....
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
I just think "the Jews" are made again to a scapegoat for People unwilling to look sharper at the history. As nothing supports this story at all....pure logic and straight numbers speak against it.
But it's so easy to blame this mysterious "Jew" for every wart...really "eternal"....
I just think "the Jews" are made again to a scapegoat for People unwilling to look sharper at the history. As nothing supports this story at all....pure logic and straight numbers speak against it.
But it's so easy to blame this mysterious "Jew" for every wart...really "eternal"....
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Well, you had to be of age and all those communist party members had supporting families...
The GDR was on the frontline of the cold war, the invisible battle field (agents, spies, assassinations and so on) and had still a huge number of the Red Army stationed on it's soil till 1989 but still I would never try to put the blame on the Russians, the Jews or the Marsians...I know that we did it all by ourselves.
Sometimes I think for many Poles the war had been easier...the battle lines were clearly drawn.
But post war Poland was not so easy! Stop looking for someone else to blame.
Even if the number was 3,5 mil (I'm too lazy to check) it's very low considering we are talking about 35 million nation and pure terror commies unleashed to 'convinced' unbelievers. They had more success in your beloved DDR.
Well, you had to be of age and all those communist party members had supporting families...
The GDR was on the frontline of the cold war, the invisible battle field (agents, spies, assassinations and so on) and had still a huge number of the Red Army stationed on it's soil till 1989 but still I would never try to put the blame on the Russians, the Jews or the Marsians...I know that we did it all by ourselves.
Sometimes I think for many Poles the war had been easier...the battle lines were clearly drawn.
But post war Poland was not so easy! Stop looking for someone else to blame.
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Resentment about WHAT????
Well, I'm glad to be of help....
3.5 million polish nuts in the polish communist party Bzibzi....most of them pure polish nuts, not jewish nuts!
It is still a point of resentment between the two, Poles and Jews;
Resentment about WHAT????
...as long as it is ignored it will remain just that.
Well, I'm glad to be of help....
Those damn stubborn Poles were tough nuts to crack;
3.5 million polish nuts in the polish communist party Bzibzi....most of them pure polish nuts, not jewish nuts!
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
That I know where your story has it's cracks?
Why should they leave their paradise they ruled supreme???
/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#Communist_rule:_1945.E2.80.9389
Short for Eastern Germans :)
Just curious. That would explain a lot.
That I know where your story has it's cracks?
They left in 1968. 23 years of hard work of transforming Poland into a commie paradise.
Why should they leave their paradise they ruled supreme???
/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#Communist_rule:_1945.E2.80.9389
...Polish Jews began to leave Poland soon after the Second World War ended for variety of reasons.[133] Many left because Poland became a communist country they did not want to live in, or because all private property has been confiscated by the new communist government.
Some left because they did not want to live where their family members were murdered and instead chose to live with relatives in different countries. Many wanted to go to British Mandate of Palestine soon to be new state of Israel. Yet others left because many Poles viewed Jews with hostility due to anti-Semitic prejudice.
Some left because they did not want to live where their family members were murdered and instead chose to live with relatives in different countries. Many wanted to go to British Mandate of Palestine soon to be new state of Israel. Yet others left because many Poles viewed Jews with hostility due to anti-Semitic prejudice.
What is Ossi?
Short for Eastern Germans :)
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
I'm a born and bred Ossi, and I know all the arguments...
You can tell maybe a stupid Wessi from the US or GB about the bad communist from Mars (or Jews as polish specialty) who somehow got to power to oppress the brave Poles/East Germans/(insert any other eastern bloc country of your choice)
But we know better, don't we? It weren't Marsians!
Bratwurst Boy
Are you from a former West Berlin or DDR Berlin?
Are you from a former West Berlin or DDR Berlin?
I'm a born and bred Ossi, and I know all the arguments...
You can tell maybe a stupid Wessi from the US or GB about the bad communist from Mars (or Jews as polish specialty) who somehow got to power to oppress the brave Poles/East Germans/(insert any other eastern bloc country of your choice)
But we know better, don't we? It weren't Marsians!
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Come on... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_Party
How many of them were Jews, huh? I can tell you, not many: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
200.000 survivors left, most of them packing their bags already, the communist party hostile....but you want to tell me that the omnipotent Über-Jew was able to terrorize the whole of brave Poland???
Sorry, I don't buy it!
As in every society, my guess not enough Russians spoke good enough German to be mistaken for one.
Come on... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_Party
In the crowning time of the PUWP's development (the end of '70s) it consisted of over 3.5 million members.
How many of them were Jews, huh? I can tell you, not many: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
war period, many of the approximately 200,000 Polish Jewish survivors chose to emigrate from the communist People's Republic of Poland to the nascent State of Israel and North or South America.
200.000 survivors left, most of them packing their bags already, the communist party hostile....but you want to tell me that the omnipotent Über-Jew was able to terrorize the whole of brave Poland???
Sorry, I don't buy it!
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Oooh...*sits down to feast*
:)
Oh please....after the Holocaust there just weren't enough Jews left to terrorize all the people even if every one of them left felt the burning desire to do so. Not to mention that many of the survivors couldn't wait to leave the killing fields for Palestine.
Plain logic speaks again "the Jews did it all" theory!
No, it was our own people, opportunists, believers, cold beaureucrats whatever....Poles are humans like anybody else. You don't sh*it gold!
M-G (Bratwurst has earned some salmon with horseradich and mintsauce - yummie)
Oooh...*sits down to feast*
:)
Some were, most were implants that changed their name to reflect Polishness even if they had nothing to do with Poland.
Oh please....after the Holocaust there just weren't enough Jews left to terrorize all the people even if every one of them left felt the burning desire to do so. Not to mention that many of the survivors couldn't wait to leave the killing fields for Palestine.
Plain logic speaks again "the Jews did it all" theory!
No, it was our own people, opportunists, believers, cold beaureucrats whatever....Poles are humans like anybody else. You don't sh*it gold!
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Nobody killed more Slavs than Stalin (Do count Georgians as Slavs???) and there couldn't be that many Jews left in Poland after the war (communist or not) to single handedly terrorizing the Poles.
Face it guys, the biggest part of the terrorizing after the war did non-jewish Poles, your very own people, I don't know why some of you have such a problem with admitting that. Your constant "The Jews did this! The Jews did that!" starts to sound unnerving....
In East-Germany for example the worst bootlickers of the Soviets were ex-Moscow hardcore Stalinists...Germans! (There might be the odd Jew there too but it hardly matters).
As was the case in all newly incorporated soviet republics....
Nobody killed more Slavs than Stalin (Do count Georgians as Slavs???) and there couldn't be that many Jews left in Poland after the war (communist or not) to single handedly terrorizing the Poles.
Face it guys, the biggest part of the terrorizing after the war did non-jewish Poles, your very own people, I don't know why some of you have such a problem with admitting that. Your constant "The Jews did this! The Jews did that!" starts to sound unnerving....
In East-Germany for example the worst bootlickers of the Soviets were ex-Moscow hardcore Stalinists...Germans! (There might be the odd Jew there too but it hardly matters).
As was the case in all newly incorporated soviet republics....
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
I would say the Chief of the Criminal Police of Lodz...at least that's what the source calls him.
The misunderstanding seems to be that he also held the rank of an SS-Obersturmbannführer.
And it is a fact that the SS tried to grasp as much of the state police under her influence as she probably could during her rise in Germany but when Himmler complains of the use of SS-guards and demands that this camp comes under the ruling of the criminal police then that is what happened.
Listen Jola, this camp was a crime and horrible as it is but in the context of the topic there hadn't been comparable camps for jewish kids at all, they never even got this chance...maybe we should stop here.
Yes?
And communist Poland wasn't interested in hunting war criminals?
And no...I'm not interested in your polish text...that is rude!
According to you who was the camp commandant?
I would say the Chief of the Criminal Police of Lodz...at least that's what the source calls him.
The misunderstanding seems to be that he also held the rank of an SS-Obersturmbannführer.
And it is a fact that the SS tried to grasp as much of the state police under her influence as she probably could during her rise in Germany but when Himmler complains of the use of SS-guards and demands that this camp comes under the ruling of the criminal police then that is what happened.
Listen Jola, this camp was a crime and horrible as it is but in the context of the topic there hadn't been comparable camps for jewish kids at all, they never even got this chance...maybe we should stop here.
Poll was in communist Poland.
Yes?
And communist Poland wasn't interested in hunting war criminals?
And no...I'm not interested in your polish text...that is rude!
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
Interesting facts about her too:
/wiki/Jugendverwahrlager_Litzmannstadt#Nachkriegsgeschichte
Curious...no leaving for Germany at the wars end? "Influential guardian" in the polish city council???
You mean Eugenia Pohl?
Interesting facts about her too:
/wiki/Jugendverwahrlager_Litzmannstadt#Nachkriegsgeschichte
....
Die stellvertretende Lagerleiterin Eugenia Pohl änderte nach dem Krieg ihren Namen in Poll und begann unerkannt in £ódź als Kindergärtnerin zu arbeiten. Es wird spekuliert, dass sie einen einflussreichen Beschützer in der Stadtverwaltung hatte. Erst am 12. Dezember 1970 wurde sie verhaftet. ..
Die stellvertretende Lagerleiterin Eugenia Pohl änderte nach dem Krieg ihren Namen in Poll und begann unerkannt in £ódź als Kindergärtnerin zu arbeiten. Es wird spekuliert, dass sie einen einflussreichen Beschützer in der Stadtverwaltung hatte. Erst am 12. Dezember 1970 wurde sie verhaftet. ..
...The deputy camp leader Eugenia Pohl changed her name after the war in Poll and work undiscovered in Lodz as kindergarten worker. I is speculated that she had an influential guardian in the city council.
Only at the 12th of December she got arrested.
Only at the 12th of December she got arrested.
Curious...no leaving for Germany at the wars end? "Influential guardian" in the polish city council???
Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2010
History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]
What sources? Bring them please....
And as I took the pain to translate german texts into english you could do the same for the sake of a discussion on an english-language talkboard, thank you very much!
Especially this here:
Again...your historians must have some sources...they should be in german so no need to translate them for me!
Our sources say they were transfered to Ravensbruck or Auschwitz.
What sources? Bring them please....
And as I took the pain to translate german texts into english you could do the same for the sake of a discussion on an english-language talkboard, thank you very much!
Especially this here:
Załoga obozu była dobrana z całą starannością. Komendantem od chwili utworzenia aż do wyzwolenia był szef policji kryminalnej w £odzi, SS-Sturmbannfeuhrer Karl Erlich.
Again...your historians must have some sources...they should be in german so no need to translate them for me!