News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

I doubt there is such a thing as "100% benign"...it's always about how to get the most advantages out of something. And right now the EU and also the liberal market economy + democracy is our best bet...it keeps more people quite comfortable than any other known alternatives..

So...till the critics come up with a better concept I keep (and fight for) what enables me to live a reasonable free, self-determined, well off, peaceful and secure life, thank you!

(The alternatives I know of and have lived through all suck compared to what we have)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

NOBODY will use nukes in Europe!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Yeah...she is Germany's problem....but she is hardly "the EU", isn't she?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Who would that be?


Nah...you must be mistaken.....the EU is a socialist/communist/marxist plot.....didn't you read Spike???

It's interesting how every political side projects it's biggest fears into the EU....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


And you know why they have more "say"? Better networking....being longer member still helps too....they are net payer....taking over responsibilities...that all Poland could do too...SHOULD too, instead of pouting in a corner and throwing tantrums....THAT won't gain you any support aka influence at all.

A union is for teamplayers!

"Vassals"....interesting choice of words for members who have all the same rights and duties...

What do you think will happen to Poland outside the EU? With a Poland which nobody gives a sh'it about...sure, you would have alot less duties, but alot less rights too and no vote at all.

You think of the union members as vassals? That's the future for Poland alone...you WILL become another ones vassal...again...all you will be able to do is saying THANK YOU to the few crumbs falling from the table of the big guys.

I have news for you, if you don't "make it" inside the EU, where you sit as equal on the table, you won't make it at all outside!


Did you? If so that has totally gone lost on me...and I apologize!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


You know that the EU consists of 27 totally different members (after Brexit), don't you?

Is it Poland against all other 26 member states? Are they all following a destructive and demoralizing ideological side?

Don't you think that protection would work better from INSIDE the EU? Changing things for the better through smart networking and policing?

What exactly do you mean when you shout such easy slogans?

I mean do you really think the advantages of the Single Market will come by so easily for Poland? Without compromising and paying for that privilege?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

....or...how they always say...."The grass is always greener somewhere else!"

And Polands history is such an apposition of political and economical successes, they must know what they are talking about!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

He must have german blood in him...

*runs*

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


*shakes hands on that*

Who needs the Bundeswehr...more singer and designer and movie makers are needed...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Germany Overall Ranking 03

!!!

Heh:)

Take that!!! :)

The world loves us....

*goes looking for the "Most popular country" study again...which Germany WON actually, heh:)*

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Why now?

It seems Poland does alot to keep it that way purposely...the WWII is never far from the polish mind...the Pole of today must be always stay alert...against an over mighty Germany and the big russian bear, isn't that so Iron?

Where should the sympathy or interest come from with such a mindset?

PS: I bet I was the first German you ever had a long(er) standing contact and talks with...usually your knowledge of Germany comes from history teachings, am I right?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


So...no Beethoven or Wagner fans in Poland? No Goethe? Kant? etc. :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I'm sure that if Germany would have any more soft power alot of Poles on PF would complain about a "take over"....

The same way parents all over Europe complain about their kids preferring english language, english songs, english movies, english fashion...at the same time "forgetting" or purposely ignoring about old national traditions etc....:)

Just imagine the polish/german teenagers running around in Nike's, with the jeans hanging down to the knees, listening to that black rapper, speaking some kind of ghetto-slang and believing themselves to be sooo cool...

Is that this "soft power" you mean?

Thing is the Brits don't have their culture and their language for their own anymore...in every country it gets bastardized and mixed and changes....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Maybe a question of definition....people decide with their feet, they always have...and in that regard the direction of Poles is clear....it doesn't have to be about beer or Beethoven...they have come for centuries, still come, settle, learn German, work and live here...immigrate/assimilate...give birth to a new generation of GerPoles... or only stay for awhile...

I don't know exactly what you actually mean...so, be a grump! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

....and that average polish person is you! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Do you really think you can speak for all of them?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

...maybe interesting for this thread....

The first new year baby was born in Frankfurt...at 0.02. a little Jakub....son of polish parents Michal and Izabella...
He is in the running for Germany's fastest baby! :)

bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/frankfurt-geboren-um-0-02-uhr-herzlich-willkommen-kleiner-jakub-67028874.bild.html

The reality of the EU flies full in the face of all these quite theoretical visions....

Happy Birthday! :)

PS: Iron, the parents want to build a house there....I'm sure little Jakub will grow up fully appreciating what Germany has to offer! ;)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Like the british army does in Britain?

"....There is a long history of soldiers being used to put down civil unrest or subdue public disorder on home soil. This has sometimes been very unpopular, especially when soldiers have turned their weapons on civilians...."

nam.ac.uk/explore/civil-enforcement

Like actually EVERY army if they are needed?

PS: They should help with terror attacks, securing big events and helping out in the case of natural disasters too...oh and fighting against any outside agression of course...

Oh wait...since the EU is a Gulag you expect them to be our jailers, right? Riiiiiight!


You know that Poles have a history of flocking to Germany for centuries? Hell, every second Berliner has a "ski" in his name...half of the Ruhr population is of polish heritage...

How can you ignore all that???

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Yeah....and still no Bundeswehr in Warsaw to force them...we are such pussies!!!!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


It's hard....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


"Central organs"! :)

Next you will say the EU does state-directed command-economy....

You are like Spike, just the other side of the coin!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


That's why I'm asking you! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Not the wealth in Germany...that was lost after WWII and in the GDR even longer...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I think Neo-liberalism belongs to the globalist era...which startet at full thrusters after the end of the communist system. Capitalism won and had no rivals anymore. Nothing to keep it in check.

That comes to an end now, the anti-globalist movements are gaining strength and with that, so I believe, the social focus will come back stronger again...globalism should no longer prefer the rich, the industry or the liberal, well off urban elites.

The EU reflects all these tendencies....she is the sum of it's members....if the majority is following neo-liberal policies so is the EU...should a more protectionist, social movements get stronger, the EU will mirror that too...

What irks me is when people so lightly speak of the EU as some kind of dark overlord, some foreign, alien master....who alone decides and opresses and forces and what not, totally ignoring that it's the member states and it's democratically elected envoys who are making these policies in Brussels...not without bitching and fighting and negotiating and networking and all what comes with that daily political business...

Especially in an organization where every member has the same vote. Which makes the voice of an 80 million people like net payer Germany as exactly as important as the one of tiny Malta....


How would you define the positives? Not gaining money from the EU instead of paying into the common pot?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


There is alot to criticize about the EU...especially it's Euro policies....agreed!

Somehow it get's surreal when one side blames the EU for being extremely capitalist/neo-liberal and the other sides sees a socialist dictatorship aka Gulag coming right up...

She can't do it right it seems! :)


Do you mean by that "as long it stay a net receiver"? Should Poland leave when it's economically able to become a "net payer"?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


OF COURSE!

Otherwise you are talking about foggy conspiration theories....everybody and their grandmom has them...but that is nothing REAL!

Not the best base for politics btw...


You know, "wealth" is not something that springs first to mind thinking about a "socialist paradise!

I wonder what these "local national awakenings" are truly after if it's not the wealth and the freedoms of modern Europe...I wonder why you wish this to die...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Which "local devils" do you mean exactly?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


You know that "social media" is an US thing? Google...Facebook...Twitter....Insta....what about that is EU?

Okay...the Chinese are coming up...with their TikTok....and they are known to censor their internet quite heavily...Russia is developing their own "state net" too, that they can cut off at will if they want to...

Again, what about "social media" is owned and controlled be the EU?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Why not call it Konzentrationslager? Why not Auschwitz?

It's all the same crap!

You know criticism is alright and often enough justified and necessary...but with those comparisons you only shoot yourself in the foot. Who should take you seriously after THAT?

After all it IS a fact that you can criticize and spout crap about the EU as much as you want...there will still be no Gulag or a mighty Secret Service knocking at your door deep in the night for you, you won't be kidnapped or jailed or murdered for what you say...think about that for a second!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

....it is referred also to a lawless system to imprison political opponents (or what the mighty leader thought them to be), to a system of work till you drop, starvation, mass murder...

Really?