History of Polish-Russian relations

That's because he is trying to tell a story, while you are trying to research and argue about the facts, impressions and perspectives to get closer to the truth and see if you can be correct in your views.

Polish history is much more about very convincing storytelling that drives people mad and ignites passion.

Russian storytelling is about grandeur and pomp no matter the comparison with other countries and lifting up one's own view of their own country.

Historians try to gain knowledge of the past.
People like us two will always be between the anvil and the hammer

Really? What kind of sentiments were driving the Kościuszko Uprising and the January Uprising then, according to you? :)))


Nope. There were Polish independence organisations at that time and RuSSians persecuting them was one of the reasons for the Polish revolt. I think you need to have a read:

pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powstanie_listopadowe

Yes, really.

The uprising broke out, when Poles were informed that they were being sent to France to suppress the July Revolution and the Belgian Revolution. This is what started my debate with Pawian.

Deciding to join forces with their revolutionary brothers around the continent, and feeling that history is on their side, the Poles acted. It also didn't help, that many people in Poland were still very sympathetic towards a revolutionary France, due to events which were still fresh in their memory (Duchy of Warsaw days).

Also, sending Polish troops to France, was in direct violation of the Polish constitution, and this specifically angered wide swathes of the bourgeoisie and nobility.

Maybe you don't understand my argument. I'm not saying that Poles were not anti-Russian. I'm not saying they did not want to be free of Russian control. Simply, I am saying that other priorities took precedence over any Russian hatred.

If the uprising was purely predicated on hate towards Russian control, it could have happened a century later or never at all. But it wasn't, and it was not happening in a vacuum either. Events across Europe were informing the decisions of Polish revolutionaries, much more than any Hatred.

And I'm telling you that regaining independence/fighting against the foreign rule was the main priority of every Polish uprising, including the November Uprising. It was directed against the RuSSian rule - it wasn't some universal, general fight against kings and aristocracy:

"The Manifesto of the Parliament of the Polish Kingdom about the rising of the Polish nation (December 20 1830)":

pl.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_obu_izb_sejmowych_Kr%C3%B3lestwa_Polskiego_o_powstaniu_narodu_polskiego_(20_grudnia_1830)


That was what triggered the uprising. But the situation was building up before that. And you seem to be convinced that this was the main reason behind the uprising, which wasn't the case.


So that's why insurrectionists put count Adam Jerzy Czartoryski as the head of The Provisional Government? It doesn't sound very "revolutionary" to me ;)

BS. But I don`t have time to continue this dispute. I already said how it really was and that`s enough. :):):)


No, darling, I am just telling facts. If I don`t provide links and sources in my posts here, it is because I don`t deem it so important to educate that imperial Russian or a Russian ass licker aka you. You can stick to your bs at will. hahahaha


Our imperial Russian propagates the Soviet version of Polish Russian relations - according to Lenin, Stalin and their followers, Poles and Polesses didn`t consider Russians enemies, they only fought against the tsar. hahaha Which is untrue, of course.

The Warsaw Song, ( its Polish title reads Warsaw Female), created in 1831 by a French poet and music by a Polish composer, became the anthem of several generations of Polish insurgents against the Russian oppression.

:The first verse of the song refers to the French July Revolution (the rainbow is a symbol of the tricolor flag of the then revolutionary France) and the community fighting for the freedom of the peoples of Europe.

The second stanza refers to Russia's Balkan campaign in 1829, which was connected with the November Uprising by the person of the commander of the Russian troops of both campaigns - Ivan Dybich Zabałkański . It also refers to the fact that Cossack troops, known for their barbarism and vindictiveness, served in the army of the Russian Empire .

In the third stanza there is a reference to the memorable victorious expeditions of Poles - to Moscow at the beginning of the 17th century and, together with Napoleon's troops , to Italy and Egypt .

In the fourth stanza, there is a clear reminder of the massacre of Prague carried out by Russian troops in November 1794, in the context of tsarist propaganda from 1830 about the mercy of the Russian authorities.

The fifth contains an allusion to a Polish custom common in the 19th century, when women gave a ring to their men with a blessing when they went into battle during uprisings, vowing victory or death.

The sixth one lists just a few of the many battles in which Poles took part under the authority of Napoleon Bonaparte , as well as a reproach to the French nation, which did not repay the Polish loyalty of just a dozen or so years ago with armed or even strictly political support for the November insurgents .

The seventh commemorates all those who died for Poland outside its borders, and also expresses the insurgent's determination so that even a lost fight against the power of the Tsar would not remain in vain.

The eighth stanza simply encourages armed struggle against the enemy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warszawianka_(1831)

The song with English subtitles:

Cute remark... :):):)

*Prince, sorry. 🤦


A fragment from the November Uprising's manifesto that I linked to earlier:

"The Polish nation has risen against the humiliation and subjection with a manly decision of not returning to the shackles it has broken, not laying down the weapons of their ancestors, until it wins independence and power, the only guarantees of freedoms, until it secures those freedoms, which are by right theirs doubly due to the honourable heritage of their ancestors and the urgent need of our century; until it reunites with the brothers subdued by the Saint Petersburg's throne, frees them from this yoke and make them part of its rights, freedom and independence. We are not motivated by any national (*ethnic?) hatred towards Russians, a great Slavic tribe, just like us."

I find it interesting that they felt the need to stress that they don't hate RuSSians. Did the tsarist propaganda even back then claim that Poles hated Russians? That they're "Russophobes" revolting "for no reason" out of pure spite and "blind hatred" towards Russians? lol 🤔

@Miloslaw
Truly do hope that happens. We are all Sarmatians.

@Miloslaw
We all used to be connected to the same branch of Christianity. German Popes put an end to that.

@Vlad1234
None of the issues regarding the western part of the country would have mattered if the so-called szlachta hadn't been so keen on equating "Polishness" exclusively with ROMAN Catholicism.

Paulina you need to study more history, if you hope to continue debating.

The Marquis de Lafayette, despite being an aristocrat and one of the richest men in France, first served as General in George Washington's Continental Army, and then later played a key role in the French Revolution and France's military campaigns.

The Comte de Mirabeau, was also not a nobody, but similarly played a key role in destroying the French monarchy.

Lenin was from a wealthy aristocratic family.

Zhou Enlai was a Chinese aristocrat.

Fidel Castro was the son of a very wealthy sugar farmer.

Ho Chi Minh spent most of his youth living in France, the United States and Britain.

You may or may not like elites, but they exist, and they are necessary for the masses to be mobilized. Never has the working man managed to run the show at the top, at least without aid and guidance from those who are familiar with power.

Bobko, you need to study more Polish history, and not RuSSian version or your personal version of it, if you hope to continue debating Polish history :)


That's all great, but the thing is that we're not discussing French history. We're discussing Polish history. Czartoryski being a Prince is just a fun fact that I provided for you. It's a detail, not my main argument :) Did you read the November Uprising's manifesto that I linked for you?


Czartoryski didn't mobilize anyone. He was made the head of the Provisional Government not entirely out of his will.

Bobko, don't waste your time on this stuff...I forgot 90% of Polish history and life is sweet.
Instead, figure out how to liberate Donbass and Luhansk faster.


Please. never debate morons who insult you.

Yes, Bobko, don`t waste time on things you don`t understand. Stick to admiring ""great Russia and its fantastic leader, Putin,"" together with Novi. hahahaha buhahaha

Remind me to put your hands and head in the pillory while I command your pupils to flog you as much as they please. I recommend giving them compliments more often so nobody will experience the satisfaction of doing it to you.

You know... Since I am such a "Boyar" and Russia fanboy in your eyes

And as a better "Boyar" contribution regarding Polish-Russian relations I wanted to share this interesting video:


Please do forgive me my "Russophilism"

But you admitted to it yourself in your silly posts, so what is your problem now??? Why are you so unstable, moving from one extreme emotion to another???

Sick daydreaming...... Yuk. Get a grip.

@pawian
Oh I can daydream more sickly if you are interested
Just saying

@pawian
Am I wrong to love humankind? Am I wrong to then love all slavs? Am I then wrong to love my people? I see it a greater crime for me or you to let hatred not only enter your heart, but even the thought of it replacing love in one's heart is a crime, that spreads not only through your own body but that of the hearts and souls in the world. There is a sickness in Russia that needs to be cured, it spreads like wildfire. You are not helping out with putting it out, you're encouraging it to spread. Joining their nature in behaviour and actions. Yet you deem me traitor?

You should be satisfied I am only restraining you with my words, cause imagine what your hands would do to traitors of humanity.

Tell me lil Roman soldier how many nails you plan to nail that piece of wood before you see sense

To whom?


It's the whole damn place, culture and people. It is all sick.

Mostly cadet officers were stuck for years in their Cadet school without the possibility of advancing in ranks in the foreseeable future. Plus There was the budding industry in the Congress Poland that threatened the interest of British manufacturers selling stuff to Russia, big money had ints ways to influence things in the 19th century as well.

Part of it is lying to themselves. Lying to other people can sometimes be accomplished without damaging self. But lying to yourself is the quickest, surest way to he11 there is.

Rather than be honest and say: We're angry because our country's crap and we're living in garbage and we take out our narcissistic rage on countries that border us

They say: We're so great! Wha'ts wrong with the world that refuses to recognize our superiority? They must all be rotten nazis or something!

I can imagine you can. But I am not interested. :):)


No, not yet. In my latest post to you I only suggested you are a Russian ass licker. That`t not the same as being a traitor. A traitor is sb who takes a trecherous action while here we only use words so you are just a licker. :):)


Unfortunately, treating Russian disease with love and understanding is completely hopeless. It has to be treated with fire and sword, like Ukrainians are doing.
Here we hugely differ in our approaches.

A Vast majority of Poles hates the Russians and loves Americans and Englos. The French are still largely liked, for some reasons.

Wow! You hate Russians two times more than you hate gypsies! Incredible...

What a powerful, and very impressive level of hate. I would not be surprised, if it is in fact stronger than in Ukraine - a country under Russian attack.

Wide is the Polish heart... both in its capacity for love and for hate.

gypsies aren't killing Ukrainian civilians and gypsies aren't threatening to invade or nuke Poland.... do the math

russians tend to project their warped psychology onto other, more normal, countries.... russians are aroused by threats of violence against them and find the threatener irresistible and want to please them.... so they think that invading Ukraine for a bunch of fictitious reasons will make other countries in the area love them.... doesn't work that way.

Actually, it isn`t hate but aversion or relactunce which was polled.


We don`t speak Russian like many Ukrainians do. :):):)


Yes, it is. But it gets narrow for imperialists who feed on conquest like Russians do. Simple.

lol!

"Fu-fu! We don't hate Russians, we're merely made uncomfortable by them!"

Such a diplomat, Pawian.

Exactly. The close company of a potential murderer, looter and rapist makes a normal person feel uneasy.
Why wasn`t Poland located by the Goddess in a safer place which Russians don`t threaten with invasion etc ??? E,g, somewhere in Papua and New Guinea?? Or at least in Thailand???

We are fekking Goddess` playground to be Russia`s neighbour. :(:(:(:(