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What do Poles owe to Germans?


TheOther 5 | 3,688
23 Mar 2019  #241
Support for the November Uprising in 1830. See also "Hambacher Fest". Notice the Polish flag?

Hambacher Fest
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,705
23 Mar 2019  #242
Now THAT is nice! Thats how I would like to see our both countries...
Ironside 48 | 9,694
23 Mar 2019  #243
actually really give a **** about

Dude, the phrase you're looking for is - I don't give a sh...! What you are saying now is just the opposite of what you want to say. Key?

As I said the thread subjected is very badly worded. Owe suggest some kind of debt, not necessary of a pecuniary kind but some debt of a moral obligation or gratitude.

Such obligation doesn't exist. Things that Polish people can appreciate in Germans after 1000 years old long history of neighborhood would be much better or something of the kind.

No wonder people are just putting in some mind-bending examples of BS like the other with his 'rights for serfs' in Prussia. How that can be consider a favor? Poland had been robbed from their land first and then some was suffering the fate of all Prussian lands. I don't even want to consider which level of ignorant or dumb one has to reach to post it in all the state. Unless it was some sublime mockery.

In 1830 yes lots of people in many German states were supportive towards Polish refugees, former soldiers fighting Russian in 1830. Yet it was seen as a prat of the liberal revolution that many were hoping for at the times. Governments were not that kin on them, most of those rules were rather were of the battle hardened veterans of a revolution. who fought -against their legal ruler (Czar of Russia was also a self-proclaimed Kind of Poland.)

Hell. Prussia at the time were in talks with Czar. Preparing for a military innervation IF the uprising would have been successful.

So general public in German many states was cheering them up in the same way today a large chunk of the populace in the USA would cheer up some LGBT activists. Not due to some sympathy to Poland but because Poland happened to be a symbol at the time (rightly or wrongly)of certain ideological/political movement in Europe, republicanism, liberalism and what have you ....

have a nice day
TheOther 5 | 3,688
23 Mar 2019  #244
How that can be consider a favor?

Attempting to abolish serfdom was not positive for the Polish peasants? Really? They should've stayed property of the Polish nobility, right? You are confused, Ironside.
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #245
Meanwhile Prussia continued to increase his power under its' competent and frugal kings, eventually annexing large parts of Saxony.

Wasn`t it a beneficial event after all? Prussia grew stronger and stronger, eventually emerging as the most powerful German state which later accomplished the unification of all other states into one.

Support for the November Uprising in 1830. See also "Hambacher Fest". Notice the Polish flag?

Yes, we talked about it a few years ago. It was around 1830s that the modern German flag came into being, right?

Thats how I would like to see our both countries...

Isn`t it so already? :) Or, it isn`t yet, if you mean the full unification.... :):)

Owe suggest some kind of debt, of a moral obligation or gratitude.Such obligation doesn't exist. .

My last contribution was about the highest Polish medal. You think Poles needn`t feel grateful to Germans for it? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_White_Eagle_(Poland)

Then you are an ungrateful dj23hfnvcs. :):)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,705
23 Mar 2019  #246
Isn`t it so already? :) Or, it isn`t yet, if you mean the full unification.... :):)

I call it Germolia...my polish friend prefers Gerpolia...so the decision on the name is still out! :)
Ziemowit 12 | 3,455
23 Mar 2019  #247
times after Bolesław Chrobry`s, the first king of Poland, death. Polish lands were deprived of the ruler and completely ruined by foreign invasions.

Of that time, what Poles owe to the Germans is Thietmar's (of Merseburg) chronicle. Thietmar was born in 976 and died in 1018, so the great period of his adult life matched markedly the big period of Boleslaus Chrobry's reign (ruler of Poland between 992 and 1025). Thietmar's chronicle is an immense source to the history of Poland of that time since - beside writing about the Germany's Ottons - he wrote extensively about Poland's Piasts and also West Slavic tribes inhabiting the area of today's Eastern Germany. Once he dies, there comes a sudden stop in detailed information on events taking place in Poland.

his [Augustus the Strong] rule is also considered to have negatively impacted Saxony.

Some in Poland say that if he were king of Poland in place of Stanislas August Poniatowski, Poland would have never been partitioned as the Strong knew a lot better the principles of international diplomacy and was very skillful in sailing across the waters of international politics. In this way Poland could have safely survived until the Napoleonic era...
Ironside 48 | 9,694
23 Mar 2019  #248
You are confused, Ironside.

On the other hand You're very bright and straight as an arrow.

Lets say, I will rob all your assets right. then I will take a good care of your former house and on the top of it I will feed your cat, According to your bright and unwavering logic you should be grateful to me for taking a good care of your freaking cat. Applause!

There is an old Polish adage, which I guess would be a fitting addition to pawian's (the F peasant)thread - go to a doctor to get treatment for you legs because it is too late to cure your head.

You think Poles needn`t feel grateful to Germans for it?

Why would they? Your point of view is weird. My guess is that you being a F peasant and a butler to the boot you need somehow justify interlay your spineless attitude towards Germans or any powerful or wealthy foreign country. .
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #249
what Poles owe to the Germans is Thietmar's (of Merseburg) chron

Oh, yes! I forgot about it. Or not? As far as I remember, his chronicle wasn`t too positive for the Polish state - he was a bit biased.

My guess is that you being a F peasant

I prefer to be a peasant like most true Poles are than to be dumb narrow-minded Pollack like you. Stop claiming you have any connection with Polishness because you bring shame to Poland and true Poles. Tfu, Du canalia. :)
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
23 Mar 2019  #250
Poles owe Germans nothing.
Germans owe Poles big time.
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #251
""Poles owe Germans nothing""

Milo, you mistook the investigations. This thread is not if but what. :)
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
23 Mar 2019  #252
Please explain the difference.
Tacitus 2 | 835
23 Mar 2019  #253
Prussia grew stronger and stronger, eventually emerging as the most powerful German state which later accomplished the unification of all other states into one.

Sure, but it was hardly beneficial to Saxony's status, which suffered pretty heavily during Prussia's ascent (it was occupied during the Seven Year's War, and then later faced the very real danger of being annexed during the Vienna Conference after Napoleon's defeat). It is worth mentioning that there was nothing inevitable about Prussia's ascent, it used to be much poorer than Saxony, and was even exposed between Saxony and Poland. The key difference was that Prussia had a string of very competent rulers, with Frederick II being of course the most prominent (later kings were of dubious quality).

This is why August's reign is considered to be rather disastrous for Saxony. Of course, the later kings of Saxony made also a lot of mistakes. Frederick Augustus I. for example, who btw. was can be argued to have done a lof for Poland, though it was eventually for nought (he for example declined the Polish crown first in 1791 or something, because he thought that this would lead to Poland's dissolution).
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #254
It is worth mentioning that there was nothing inevitable about Prussia's ascent, it used to be much poorer than Saxony,

Thanks, There are so many interesting things to learn, I would need a second life to grasp them all. :)

Please explain the difference.

I am at your service right now. What question goes like "What do Poles owe to Germans? " and implies that there IS sth which Poles owe and we are trying to figure out what it is exactly, providing well or less known historical facts.

While the if question sounds "Do Poles owe anything to Germans?" and we just reply yes or no without going into details. That`s not the case here.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
23 Mar 2019  #255
What question goes like "What do Poles owe to Germans".

Sorry,but I am none the wiser....... :-(
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #256
I tried to explain it as clearly as possible. Sorry, I have been working hard all week, now it is my relaxation time, I can`t teach you more than I already did because I will go crazy. :):)
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
23 Mar 2019  #257
Your effort is appreciated,but your failure has probably more to do with your lack of English than anything else.
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
23 Mar 2019  #258
but your failure has probably

:) I see. Let me teach you these two sayings then:
Polish saying: Bad ballerina is disturbed by the hem on her dress.
English one: Bad workman blames his tools. :)

There are a few similar ones in Polish. Do you know other in English?:)

Keep to the topic of the thread please
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
23 Mar 2019  #259
So,you are my tool....I blame you?
It still does not tell me that Poland owes anything to Germany.
Just poor English.
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
24 Mar 2019  #260
"" Keep to the topic of the thread please""

Yes, sir/ma`m. I am sorry, I can be so forgetful at times. :):)

Samuel Linde was of Swedish- German origin. His great contribution was the Polish language dictionary.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Linde

Samuel Linde (1771 - 8 August 1847) was a linguist, librarian, and lexicographer of the Polish language. Linde's major work was Słownik języka polskiego (Dictionary of the Polish Language), a six-volume monolingual dictionary, of lasting importance for Slavic lexicography, published in Warsaw in 1807-14. It was the first major dictionary of the Polish language.
Ironside 48 | 9,694
24 Mar 2019  #261
I prefer to be a peasant

good for you, less stress. It meant to read - 'to justify internally your spineless attitude'- towards .....

. Stop claiming

You are forgetting your place. Trying to t ell me what to do? Go and lick some more boots....
kaprys 2 | 1,784
2 Sep 2019  #262
[moved from]

@Rich Mazur
Since as a result of the war, Poland was overtaken by stalinists and a great number of UB and SB members were of Jewish origin, it's ridiculous to say that Poland is indebted to Germany for killing Jews. Not only were millions (both ethnic Poles and Polish Jews) killed but the political powers of Europe were changed for decades.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,141
2 Sep 2019  #263
There is no reason to include my name in your post. I never said that Poland should be indebted to Germany for anything.
mafketis 20 | 7,159
2 Sep 2019  #264
Should it feel indebted to the CCCP (ZSRR) or Russia?
Lyzko 22 | 6,518
3 Sep 2019  #265
Poland owed or owes NOTHING to Germany, and to assert the contrary is as farcical as it is criminal!
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
9 Sep 2019  #266
Talking about countries owing to each other....

Poland owed or owes NOTHING to Germany,

Wrong. Poland got loans from the West German government in 1970s and couldn`t repay them for a long time coz the communist state went bankrupt.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,991
9 Sep 2019  #267
Poland got loans from the West German government in 1970s

They should never have been loans.
They should have been compensation.
Lyzko 22 | 6,518
9 Sep 2019  #268
That then remains the fault of the Polish government. Why then should ordinary Poles be forced to suffer for state-sanctioned failures?
OP pawian 159 | 9,428
10 Sep 2019  #269
Because life is generally unfair? :)
Lyzko 22 | 6,518
10 Sep 2019  #270
Not an answer, and you know it.


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