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Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond


Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #31
Does the extra million jews hat peroshed warrant people forgetting the pligh of the poles?

By now you should be used to the idea that it is all about Jews. Revealing the truth about the events of WWII or the role Jews played in the communist past, it’s simply not in line with the popular view thought in the west. Be careful you’re threading a dangerous path; soon you’ll be labeled racist and anti-Semite for daring to speak up like the rest of us. In the end anyone who dares to speak the truth is labeled just that.

You just don't like Israël, do you? Otherwise you would not have entered this argument into the discussion as it has nothing to do with the subject as such.

See it starts already.

Poles had a choice and many took that choice. Jews didn't have that choice.

What choice would that be? To prolong their suffering only to meet the same fate in the end from both of our enemies Nazis and Communists, some choice. As I recall many Jews also had a choice aligning themselves with the Soviets, most did.

NOBODY has forgotten the plight of the Poles.

Hence the Jewish media focus on Polish concentration camps in recent years to imply the opposite of what really happened, distorting the history in the process or at least creating the confusion in the mind of the reader who already had been thought one sided vague history of those events; therefore the notion of collaboration easily implanted in a feeble mind which suits you just the same and any voice of discontent is just a proof of wide spread ant-Semitism.

The simple truth is that no matter how you count the number of deaths even if it’s along religious lines instead of national, the number of casualties among other religious groups such as Orthodox is still about eight times greater than those of the Jewish faith.
1jola 14 | 1,879
12 May 2010 #32
You could go back and forth on this without consent. One could argue the Jews were safely working for Hitler in the ghettoes in 1940 and 1941 while Poles were fighting the enemies. That would also take care of M-G's repeated claims that Jews had no chances of survival. Some did, but how? Oh yeah, the Nazi Schindler.
Rogalski 5 | 94
12 May 2010 #33
the number of casualties among other religious groups such as Orthodox is still about eight times greater than those of the Jewish faith.

But people weren't murdered only for being Orthodox ...
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #34
Piorun

Here we go again. Blaming the bashing of Jews on the Jews themselves. The truth? You cannot handle the truth, to quote a famous movie, and the truth is much more nasty for the likes of you than you will ever admit to. Instead, keep on bashing on the Jews, because that's probably the only at which you're good at.

Oh and btw, two things: Communist Poland and the alledged role the Jews were to have played in it is irrelevant for the topic of this thread and secondly, the Holocaust did not involve soldiers in active duty that were killed in the battlefield. Apparently you do include them as 55 million is grossly 9 times the 6 million Jews that perished. And furthermore, you seem to conveniently forget that those numbers are a combination of all faiths put together from all nations involved in the conflict. That is an irrelevant calculation as no single ppl suffered as much as the Jews did, with the exception of the Soviet Union.

You could go back and forth on this without consent. One could argue the Jews were safely working for Hitler in the ghettoes in 1940 and 1941 while Poles were fighting the enemies. That would also take care of M-G's repeated claims that Jews had no chances of survival. Some did, but how? Oh yeah, the Nazi Schindler.

Whatever. You know, for somebody who claims to be scientific you're pretty much set in your ways. If you want to compare a couple of thousand Jews that just by coincidence got a chance for survival with millions of Poles who got that chance then you really don't get the quintessence of the discussion, do you? And besides all that, you seem to forget that these chances were not directed from upper Nazi ranks, in fact, the provider could be killed because of giving them a chance, whereas upper Nazis gave the Poles a chance by simply telling them to stay away from the Jews and nothing would happen to them. But I guess you're not smart enough to grasp that concept.

>^..^<

M-G (now back to your cage)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #35
If someone out there wants to kill you do you really give a damn what his reason might be, you’re dead just the same. Besides Nazis killed for many reasons racial purity being one of them, so yes one could argue that Orthodox Slavs were marked, targeted and killed in the name of some ideology and for the same reason as Jews.

That is an irrelevant calculation as no single ppl suffered as much as the Jews did, with the exception of the Soviet Union.

Religion is not the same as nationality, but to be honest more Orthodox Russians died as a result then Jews, so yes they can truly say we have experienced Holocaust. Perhaps even argue that because they had grater number of casualties it was aimed at them.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #36
If everybody is so convinced that the Nazis were more after the Poles than they were after the Jews, then explain to me why they didn't kill much more Poles than Jews? They had to get the Jews from everywhere in Europe by trains to the deathcamps while they had the Poles on a serving platter, sitting there. Yet more Jews than Poles were killed. If they were out to kill all the Poles, why didn't they do so? Why didn't they go enter all the villages and cities and just shoot everybody there? Would only take a year or so and would be much easier than to find all the Jews in every corner of Europe to bring them all the way to PL and gass them there.

>^..^<

M-G (seems logic)

no one cares about what happened to poles but poles themselves lol

In your own cruel way you're actually right. And vice versa the Poles don't care about what happens in other parts of the world, like no-one cared about an airplane crashing down and killing 103 ppl today. Yet they complain about the lack of interest, while nobody else complain about the lack of interest Poles show in other parts of the world.

>^..^<

M-G (fact)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #37
then explain to me why they didn't kill much more Poles than Jews?

One has to admit the killing perpetrated by Nazis had an ideological element to it, racial purity presented by the Jews as the main cause of their suffering. The number of Slavs that died during the war is much, much greater than that of the Jews, so getting into this discussion with you is kind of moot.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #38
Slaves that died during the war is much, much greater than that of the Jews

Oh now it's the Slavs as a conglomerate? I thought this was only about the Poles? And yes, there are vastly more Russian victims than Jewish victims, I already stated that, but there are quite more Jewish victims than Polish victims. Simple as that. Truth hurts, doesn't it?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
1jola 14 | 1,879
12 May 2010 #39
whereas upper Nazis gave the Poles a chance by simply telling them to stay away from the Jews and nothing would happen to them. But I guess you're not smart enough to grasp that concept.

You really do think it is all about the Jews. Since Poles didn't help the Jews enough, as the current mantra goes, how did 3 million Poles get themslves killed?
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #40
Oh now it's the Slavs as a conglomerate?

Why not? Jews be it French, Hungarian, German, Polish etc. are all thrown in the same basket, counted as one. So why not Slavs? Nazi Ideology did not make distinction along national lines, it talked about Slavs in general be it Russian Polish etc. I’m sure you would love to make that distinction.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #41
Since Poles didn't help the Jews enough

I never said that Poles didn't help Jews. Don't put words in my mouth. Not all Poles that were killed were killed in relation to helping Jews.

103 arabs

It happened in Lybia, but the 103 were mainly Dutch with a few dozens of other Westerners.

>^..^<

M-G (guess you still don't grasp it)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #42
Not all Poles that were killed were killed in relation to helping Jews.

Sure, some were killed for helping AK member, the Jewish communist still managed to finish off those poor souls after the war, didn’t they? In fact they made it their priority instead of hunting Nazis, it threatened their fragile position in power and we know what the greatest deterrent is. Terrorize the population they are weary of the 6 years of war anyway.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #43
Nobody killed more Slavs than Stalin (Do count Georgians as Slavs???) and there couldn't be that many Jews left in Poland after the war (communist or not) to single handedly terrorizing the Poles.

Face it guys, the biggest part of the terrorizing after the war did non-jewish Poles, your very own people, I don't know why some of you have such a problem with admitting that. Your constant "The Jews did this! The Jews did that!" starts to sound unnerving....

In East-Germany for example the worst bootlickers of the Soviets were ex-Moscow hardcore Stalinists...Germans! (There might be the odd Jew there too but it hardly matters).

As was the case in all newly incorporated soviet republics....
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #44
Face it guys, the biggest part of the terrorizing after the war did non-jewish Poles, your very own people, I don't know why some of you have such a problem with admitting that

That's because it means they have to face the fact that they are not only victims, a moniker they have adopted over the times. They suddenly have to take responsibility for their own deeds and that causes some friction and resistance. Suddenly it's not only the heroic Pole fighting against the world anymore, but also the Pole killing his fellow countrymen and that's a bit tough to swallow, but it's nothing that cannot be done. NL faced a similar issue when it turned out to be that not all the Dutch were such good ppl, but we managed to get over it. It can be done, it just takes some time.

>^..^<

M-G (Bratwurst has earned some salmon with horseradich and mintsauce - yummie)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #45
there couldn't be that many Jews left in Poland after the war (communist or not) to single handedly terrorizing the Poles.

Implants from Soviet Union that helped Commies.

Face it guys, the biggest part of the terrorizing after the war did non-jewish Poles, your very own people, I don't know why some of you have such a problem with admitting that

Some were, most were implants that changed their name to reflect Polishness even if they had nothing to do with Poland.

In East-Germany for example the worst bootlickers of the Soviets were ex-Moscow hardcore Stalinists...Germans!

As in every society, my guess not enough Russians spoke good enough German to be mistaken for one.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #46
M-G (Bratwurst has earned some salmon with horseradich and mintsauce - yummie)

Oooh...*sits down to feast*

:)

Some were, most were implants that changed their name to reflect Polishness even if they had nothing to do with Poland.

Oh please....after the Holocaust there just weren't enough Jews left to terrorize all the people even if every one of them left felt the burning desire to do so. Not to mention that many of the survivors couldn't wait to leave the killing fields for Palestine.

Plain logic speaks again "the Jews did it all" theory!

No, it was our own people, opportunists, believers, cold beaureucrats whatever....Poles are humans like anybody else. You don't sh*it gold!
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #47
Implants from Soviet Union that helped Commies

Yeah, and we in NL had Americans flown in to help us against the Commies.

Some were, most were implants that changed their name to reflect Polishness even if they had nothing to do with Poland

So what were they? Jews, Russians, Jewish implants from Russia, Martians cloned by the Soviets? What?

*sits down to feast*

Enjoy! You deserve it :)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #48
So what were they? Jews, Russians, Jewish implants from Russia, Martians cloned by the Soviets? What?

You tell me, you have so many definitions as to what it means to be a Jew, pick one it’s just as good a guess as the next one.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #49
As in every society, my guess not enough Russians spoke good enough German to be mistaken for one.

Come on... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_United_Workers%27_Party

In the crowning time of the PUWP's development (the end of '70s) it consisted of over 3.5 million members.

How many of them were Jews, huh? I can tell you, not many: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland

war period, many of the approximately 200,000 Polish Jewish survivors chose to emigrate from the communist People's Republic of Poland to the nascent State of Israel and North or South America.

200.000 survivors left, most of them packing their bags already, the communist party hostile....but you want to tell me that the omnipotent Über-Jew was able to terrorize the whole of brave Poland???

Sorry, I don't buy it!
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #50
it means to be a Jew

No, you came up with the implants from outter Russia. You tell me what they were. And what it means to be a Jew? To me it means nothing in particular. It just means that I am a human who needs to eat, drink, pee and shyt just like everybody else. And the funny thing is, I get along with loads of ppl from all over the world and that includes loads of Poles as here in Dublin you hardly can get around Poles anyway, they're everywhere. I have a lot of Polish friends, yes.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #51
Bratwurst Boy
Are you from a former West Berlin or DDR Berlin?

I'm a born and bred Ossi, and I know all the arguments...
You can tell maybe a stupid Wessi from the US or GB about the bad communist from Mars (or Jews as polish specialty) who somehow got to power to oppress the brave Poles/East Germans/(insert any other eastern bloc country of your choice)

But we know better, don't we? It weren't Marsians!
Bzibzioh
12 May 2010 #52
At least make an attempt to stay on topic.

Just curious. That would explain a lot.

200.000 survivors left, most of them packing their bags already, the communist party hostile....but you want to tell me that the omnipotent Über-Jew was able to terrorize the whole of brave Poland???

They left in 1968. 23 years of hard work of transforming Poland into a commie paradise.

I'm a born and bred Ossi,

What is Ossi?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #53
Just curious. That would explain a lot.

That I know where your story has it's cracks?

They left in 1968. 23 years of hard work of transforming Poland into a commie paradise.

Why should they leave their paradise they ruled supreme???

/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#Communist_rule:_1945.E2.80.9389

...Polish Jews began to leave Poland soon after the Second World War ended for variety of reasons.[133] Many left because Poland became a communist country they did not want to live in, or because all private property has been confiscated by the new communist government.
Some left because they did not want to live where their family members were murdered and instead chose to live with relatives in different countries. Many wanted to go to British Mandate of Palestine soon to be new state of Israel. Yet others left because many Poles viewed Jews with hostility due to anti-Semitic prejudice.

What is Ossi?

Short for Eastern Germans :)
Piorun - | 658
12 May 2010 #54
How many of them were Jews, huh?

It’s Irrelevant to this topic “Wikipedia's Holocaust article to include genocide of Poles” worthy of its own thread but mucking those statements won’t change that facts. It's still a point of resentment between the two, Poles and Jews; as long as it is ignored it will remain just that. In my opinion this should be examined more closely and seriously discussed but fat chance of that ever happening, this would mean admitting wrong doing on the part of Jews so this subject remains a taboo, ridiculed and swapped aside, some day perhaps.

Polish Jews began to leave Poland soon after the Second World War ended

Perhaps that’s why so many of them still b**ch about the purges of 1968.
Bzibzioh
12 May 2010 #55
Why should they leave their paradise they ruled supreme???

Those damn stubborn Poles were tough nuts to crack; despite best efforts they were not buying that crap.

That I know where your story has it's cracks?

What story, Bratwurtski?

Short for Eastern Germans :)

Oh, so you were sweet little commie :)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #56
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jews_in_Poland#Communist_rule:_1945.E2.80.9389

What is Ossi?

Such a smart girl and she doesn't know what an Ossi is.

It's Irrelevant to this topic "Wikipedia's Holocaust article to include genocide of Poles" worthy of its own thread but mucking those statements won't change that facts.

You brought in the Commies, so now it's suddenly off topic? The whole Commie thing was off topic to start with.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens, tiens)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
12 May 2010 #57
It is still a point of resentment between the two, Poles and Jews;

Resentment about WHAT????

...as long as it is ignored it will remain just that.

Well, I'm glad to be of help....

Those damn stubborn Poles were tough nuts to crack;

3.5 million polish nuts in the polish communist party Bzibzi....most of them pure polish nuts, not jewish nuts!
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #58
3.5 million polish nuts in the polish communist party Bzibzi....most of them pure polish nuts, not jewish nuts!

Not only that, Bratwurst, but also with 3.5 mln members in the Polish CP, and with about 100-120 k Jews already having left before 1948 that would leave about 100 K of Jews still present in PL. That's about 3 per cent Jewish at the time. And 3 per cent was determining what happened with the remaining 97 per cent? Don't think so.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Bzibzioh
12 May 2010 #59
Such a smart girl

Thank you.

3.5 million polish nuts in the polish communist party Bzibzi....most of them pure polish nuts, not jewish nuts!

Even if the number was 3,5 mil (I'm too lazy to check) it's very low considering we are talking about 35 million nation and pure terror commies unleashed to 'convinced' unbelievers. They had more success in your beloved DDR.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010 #60
Let's assume the number 3.5 mln is correct. Of that number there were 3 per cent at the most, Jewish. With a population of give or take 35 miln, that makes 10 per cent member of the PL CP. Of that 10 per cent a fraction is Jewish. And that fraction would be able to terrorize a vastly bigger group of unwilling? Even if they had all the guns in the world, they still wouldn't be able to make it for any longer than a week or so, let alone for decades. It just doesn't make sense at all. But then again, most myths don't make sense. Guess ridding herself of myths like this is part of the coming of age for PL. Other countries had it too, PL will follow suit.

>^..^<

M-G (next)


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