When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed?

I told it like it is!

The census before the war had the Danzig population by 98 percent Germans. No propaganda.
The survey was made by the League of Nations.


Oh pleeeeaaaase....now that is a lame argument! ROFL :):):)


Sounds like another polish myth ;)

Prussia was the most modern and advanced country in Europe, why should they want to live as a hated minority in hostile, backwards Poland???

In the interwar years the League of Nations made similiar surveys in the contested areas in Silesia after the botched border drawing because of the Treaty of Versailles...the voting was nearly everywhere overwhelmingly pro Germany!

Are you basing that on sheer intuition or any actual knowledge BB? From what I have read of the partition this is actually true some of the Prussian Hanse cities resisted it until the middle of the Century though it may not have been out of love for Kilbasa (these things can be quite complex, like History in general)

As a newby, can I ask, why do you hang out on a Polish forum since you seem to dislike and distrust Poles on general principle?

G.

My family stems from lower Silesia...several little towns besides Breslau. I see myself as a German Silesian.
I'm very interested in Polish-German topics. I came to like many Poles here on the forum and I'm interested in Poland now generally.

But there is so much crap floating in polish minds...I blame the skewed commie history lessons in school.

But things get better...Poles open up to their German heritage instead of denying it...I'm glad if I can be of help!

Actually it looked like this



And after 1400 and onwards it looked like this

art-wallpaper.com/143/Altdorfer+Albrecht/Emperor+Maximilian+triumphal+scene+Nazi+banners+and+imperial+sword+detail-1024x768-143.jpg

And the polish piast white eagle appeared before the german one.

Evolution of the White Eagle 992-2010

maybe they just took a turn for the wurst.

That's the same just from another artist...but it's the same, really! ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany


There might lay the misunderstanding...

:)

My understanding is that the Ostoja Clan, a powerful Polish / Hungarian family, were influential in the creation of the Prussian commonwealth, specifically within Danzig.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_of_Ostoja

Another interesting figure is a German knight and former member of the Teutonic Order, who parted ways with them and became a key figure in the rebellion

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_von_Baysen

G.

Well the coat of arm changed dramatically from double-edged to single-edged and i wouldn't call the one germany got today "Original". So no it's not so old since the shape changed to much.

The polish white eagle was allways single-edged and never mutated from having one head to have 2 heads and then mutate back to one head...

But if they had good Louisiana Andoullie thre would have been no ethnic strife...

G.

never tried one, but I assume it'll be hot.

First:


Then:


Then back to today


...I prefer the one-headed eagle...

Clan of Ostoja

Is it my tired eyes or does the clan have the german cross on their shield???

Charlemagne was not a German king.. He was king of the germans ;)

He was a frankish king exploiting the Germanic lands...

BB if you got time you should read some about the Ostoja clan. Really impressive history they have. Actually never heard of them before, i randomly came across it some month ago. they are a hidden diamond in the polish mud.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_of_Ostoja

In Germany he's known as Karl der Große. Leader of the Franks. "Frank" being an oldish word for "free"...as in "Frank und Frei".

The Franks were a loose confederation of german tribes who gave France their name
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks

His capital was Aachen and he was German :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne


Which one doesn't! ;)

But he was also the one who sowed the seeds for later France, Germany and Italy.
One of the most important figures in european history!


geni.com/people/Charlemagne-Emperor-of-the-West/6000000002457013227

The EU is actually his empire second try. ;)

Actually that is a cross pattée, derived from the maltese cross, it was used by Crusaders throughout Europe.

You seem to think everyone and every thing is German...? The Ostoja was quintissentially Slavic.

G.

I was just asking...:)


Do you have a link to that explanation.
The german cross was used by many (inclusive the Teutonic Order and now the german Bundeswehr).

No, actually, this is Germany's Coat of Arms in 2010:

The double headed vulture is the Hapsburg symbol.

But the flags don't mean much really. Most royal families in Europe used the Eagle because they were all trying to pretend to be Romans. That is what Kaizer and Tsar mean after all, Caesar.

G.

Yes indeed he was german, did he care? Nah he exploited the poor swabians and saxons and the rest of the other "germanic" tribes.

Any link for that?


Well...someone who denies the "German nation" in "Holy Roman Empire" should see it.

Flags mean alot...insignias are history pure and tell their own stories. Poles take their flags and insignia very seriously...as every other people does too.


Yeah...no nationstates back then.
Oh wonder :)

And you can cut out the hyphens from germanic tribes...because that's what they were. ;)

Word!!!


Why? You wanna hang a print on the wall? xD


Indeed they were germanic. But don't try to use some kinda nationalistic german solidarity thingy that germanic people had some special connection to each other. They were tribes fighting against each other and did so untill the early 1900's.

this is a german eagle in wroclaw/breslau:

sepolno.wroclaw.pl/index.php?go=foto|lot

Haha sweet :D

Seems that not only the rich oil Shejks in Dubai can play with their architecture.

I wanted to make a joke

*damn my german humourlessness* :(


Needs some more german Bratwurst...looks so tiny!


As long Poles speak of polish this and polish that from the same time far back, making everything a polish/german national clash I am allowed to speak of german this and german that...only fair! :)

But yes, they had of course a connection with each other....they could understand each other shared the same customs, law and traditions...even Tacitus described them already 2000 years back as a people easily distinguishable from their neighbours.

How do you think such a tribes federation like the Franks came to pass in the first place?

BB

tell me sth. about otherpolish mythes;)

Becouse in Prussia they had to pay high taxes, it was militerized country when in poland taxes were low and The City had a lot of freedom rights.

Hatred in Poland ?? Sounds like another german myth.

Bismarcks Kulturkampf being solely directed against Poles to opress especially them.

That being a Pole in Prussia had been pure terror...

That Germans eat polish babies for breakfast..

...wait...


Yeah, well..there is a reason that Prussia was so advanced...all this infrastructure and industrialisations has to be paid by someone.
Also Bismarcks welfare laws (which had been also for polish workers) had been expensive...

Mostly agrarian Poland had less taxes with good reason!

Well, sound like German or rather Prussian myth !
\

You know what depresses me... in all the great cities we have mentioned on this thread, Gdansk, Wroclaw Lubeck etc, there are guys out on the town at this minute, with pretty girls and large glasses of beer, who don't give a damn about all the history... while we sad, lonely sods sit here on our computers...

I can help out with the beer....:)

cool. i have a couple of bottles of whisky here (to celebrate the Scottish contribution to Gdansk and Elblag)

Hmm...beer or whiskey...what to choose...what to choose... I'm better bowing out here...to much alcohol for a fine historical discussion :)