When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed?

janurary 1944? sure, sure


nothing in your books maybe.. Gdansk was originally Polish just like Wroclaw before invasion by your kind..


i like it how germans tend to change history.. oh well, one day you'll attack PL once again.. that's why i was always against reunification.. huge mistake.. huge


the architecture isn't german, per se.. german or polish, it's really about the same..


hey, whatever will separate you from your money, is good for PL.. we learn well, don't ya think? lol


wtf are you talking about? osten is still quite russiyfied today.. i bet you haven't been there, have you?


but their cars are crap


isn't it more like reparations?


as your quote proves, as poles got killed by the mongols, you gerries took over our lands.. jeez, learn the truth not some nazi shlt they are pushing on you over there..


i surely never deny your occupations of polish lands.. nope, no need to.. we need to remember you for what you really are.. :)

Hay Germans I want my grandfather life back and other innocent victims of your murderous past

No need to either...he would be dead by now anyhow...


Heh:)
To late...we will get everything we want...peacefully...and you will say even "thank you"! :):):)
We have the money and the time!


That's why your people build monuments to our Bismarck and the red baron! :)

But your pop music still stinks :) and Podolski is still Polish

Hey! No reason to be mean!

Unheilig rocks!!! :)
clipfish.de/video/3236291/geboren-um-zu-leben


As long as he scores so beautifully we are not complaining! :)

the topic is wandering

What's with cranky Mods today?

Yeah...they should work on reinstating our avatars instead...but nooooooo! :(

germans yelling over land rights. how retro!

It wasn't a German opening this thread but some polish troll...we are quite satisfied with how things are! :)

Why don't you get yourself a knife and run into it

trouble makers!

then why you want the land back the people that ware living there are dead by now anyhow....

Lets go back in history and fight who's is what now. Let loose the dinosaurs and they will take what's theirs.
Stop living in the past dude, it's not healthy.

Isn't robbery covered by courts? ;)

but at the end they cry and complaint

Are you blind? Or stupid? Both??? I didn't open this thread...that was one of yours!

It seems it was a Pole that began this thread...or at least somebody that says they speak Polish..???

you are German BB so you do not want the land back ?

Millions of people died to have the borders where they are now..i don,t think anyone is in a rush to change them again....

I think the funny thing abot these Prussian towns which keep coming up over and over on this forum is that the Prussian cities themselves chose to be Polish, in the sense that they joined with Poland politically and militarily at their own instigation. It was clear they had more potential freedom within the Polish kingdom than within any of the local German states such as Livonia, Brandenburg, Pomerania etc. These "German" towns went on to fight a war against their own overlords, that most Germanic of institutions, the Teutonic Order, which they won with the help of the Poles, Czech mercenaries, and their own militias and privateer fleets. Ultimately these towns became part of Poland where they prospered as they had never done before, right up until the partition. I don't recall any records of Danzig or Torun asking to rejoin the HRE or Austria during this period.

It seems to me as a naive outsider that religion and ethnic bigotry has been an impediment to the whole region for centuries. Events like the 30 years war and WW II were catastrophes for all the people in the region, German, Ukranian, Polish, it reall didn't matter, civilians were massacred, robbed, raped, armies were annihilated and ground to nothing. It was a victory for the crows and the worms. Yes there is yearning for connection to the old Baltic cities, especially by relatives of the displaced, but most Germans I know have given up completely on the nationalist aggressive policies of the 20th Century, because they know this jingoism only led to catastrophe for their own people. I find more Americans actually fall for this kind of propagandistic rhetoric.

Free trade and local autonomy of some degree seems to work out better historically for the people than territorial jingoism and nationalism. Actually you could argue Europe has been worse off in some ways since the rise of the nation State. As long as people of different nationalities are allowed to live there what does it really matter which State ultimately has authority? Clearly it did not matter historically to the citizens of Danzig, Elbing, Torun et al that they were part of a Polish Kingdom, to the contrary, they sought it out in preference to having German masters who they found oppressive.

G.

I wonder why so many millions of Poles then sought a better life in Germany over the centuries? In search for a better life!

Even as towns and territories had been under polish crown, the rule and law was all german...there wasn't any nationstate policy as we know it now.

And at least as these territories had been under german rule the Pole wer allowed flourish there, not expelled like the Germans under polish rule!


And now these towns and territories develop inside the EU again their own mixed style they lost during the time of borders and hostile nationstates.

That's the main reason Germans are quite satisfied with how it is and with the outlook.
It's a peaceful "back to the roots", as it once was and should be.

I thought that under Bismark there was a certain amount of anti-Polish-culture.

Poles flourished in Prussia under Bismarcks rule...a growing middle class developed in the most modern state in Europe...read up about it.

He made Prussia a modern secular state as all modern states are now. Church power got to be cut back. It wasn't anti-polish in the first place but anti-church. After all it was a german catholic trying to assassinate Bismarck for it.

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C06E1DA1130E132A25754C1A9669D946097D6CF


Yeah...how opressed they had been...

Interesting. I shall read up on it. Thanks.

This is just the way, German's and Russian's think. Give back all that was taken from the Polish and others, and than we can look at your side, Germany and Russia.

Mike

Nah...you take back from the Russians what they took and we take what was taken from us by you...deal?

;)

So who gets kaliningrad?

Actually we all just take what Russia gives us... or else!

Who wants to keep it...(we don't) ;)


Heh:)

Well, it seems to have gone both ways. You were claiming that these Prussian cities were German for hundreds of years, I'm pointing out that they fled German rule and joined Poland of their own initiative. I mean, you can't have it both ways. Of course governments and conditions changed over the course of 500 or 1000 years, some people fled in one direction or another from various catastrophes, but in the specific case you are referring to, these cities went to Poland voluntarily, by preference. (Just as other Hanse cities had done centuries before, even to the pagan Lithuanians)


The law was Hanse law and Lubeck law which was Holy Roman Empire law. Both were international and not exclusively German. Are you suggesting that the HRE was the same thing as Germany?


Poles were allowed to flourish under the rule of the Teutonic Order? I think you are trying to make all Polish Governments bad and all Germans good... which is ludicrous, not to mention the Soviets were the ones who partitioned Prussia and moved the Germans out as you I think you know pretty well.


That sounds better than demanding "your" territory back or claiming that the Prussian cities were 100% German.

G.

Erm...in the case of Danzig and Breslau and others you should better read up on the history...
I'm actually not quite sure about which town YOU are talking!


What Hanse towns went voluntarily to Poland???

Are you confusing things here?


You really should read up about the Hanse....
Just in short...it was a GERMAN merchant organization....with GERMAN as official trade language under GERMAN law...barely were any non-germans allowed in.

And it was the
Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation...so, what do you think...


After all Poles invited them in and the Order helped making the pagans to good catholics as the Poles liked them.
And today the remnants of the mighty order like the Marienburg castle belongs to the world heritage sides of Poland.

What would Poland do without the battle of Grunwald reenactments etc....???? ;)


I didn't open this thread! :(