WWII - who really was the first to help Poland?

Gregy, please don't post Nazi apologist stuff here. Nazis were killing Poles indiscriminately, including snatching them off the streets to be executed solely for being Polish.

yea they did..but there were many normal folk,Wehrmacht soldiers who were human,forcefully dragged to army and sent east.not even aware of nazi crimes.there was no internet back then.

in my grandma village,first thing they did when arrived,they started building infrastructure.first they build dairy.some had million times more honor and decency than you will ever have ,delf

Gregy does have a point

I really wouldn't call an occupying force which brutalised Poles to have had "honour and decency". Much of what they built was done with Polish slave labour and stolen materials.

Could one say the same thing about the red army? As far as I'm aware German soldiers were never forced to advance at gun-point but that was pretty much standard practice for the red army.

i guess.red army was a horror for its soldiers..whole thing was a fkin tragedy for everyone. big guys playing Gods and common folk die and suffer for it


oh yes..death penatly for refuse join army or desertion

@TheOther
I would have preferred Poland to be a free country.
What followed WW2 was a period of Stalinist atrocities. Luckily it didn't affect my family but a considerable number of Poles were tortured and murdered. Just seeing how the bodies must have been thrown into anonymous mass graves at Łączka says it all.

Yes. And people can say whatever they want but in my mind He is white as an alabaster.

Not a particularly healthy environment.

In reality, he was certainly very swarthy, hairy and by today's standards almost a midget. If this upsets anyone, they clearly don't understand Incarnation Theology.

Unfortunately that was not an option at the time, but thanks for answering, Kaprys. I'm still surprised though that the Wehrmacht seem to have a better reputation amongst Poles than the Soviet Army - judging from the posts in this thread at least.

lol

@TheOther
It's not about who was better or worse. On the whole, Poles suffered because of both Nazis and Soviets. It just seems that Soviet atrocities have been unnoticed by the Western world.

You mean like what happened to the last Pope and tens of thousands of Poles who deserted from the German army after D-Day and joined the Polish army?


The worst of the Soviet atrocities happened in what is now Poland but wasn't at the time.

Watchliveleak.com/view?i=e71_1511563255

@Taxpaying voter
Good to hear from you again. So will you please answer my question about your British grandparents' generation's experience with the Red Army?
Sure you know it all - Poland can't have suffered that much. It's always somewhere else, somebody else. Poles are just criminals and racists and Poczta Polska steals your parcels.

I really don't understand how you can live among people you hate so much.

Apart from terrible rapes on German women (if that's what you have in mind), there were also war crimes committed in gulags, in Kresy and after the war by communist authorities.

Its all here

You don't need a website with 'leaks' to confirm that. The Red Army and the SS/Wermacht's crimes in Poland are very well documented.

I wanted to open the link but was asked to confirm I'm over 18. Are there any drastic photos there?

No its about our history but yes it describes the brutality we suffered at the hands of others its an animation pictures would be too much

As for the gulags and Soviet crimes, they were not only cruel but also absurd at times, like arresting a child for treason of USSR because she was Polish in Kresy, and the USSR had just invaded Poland ... or liberating Poles from the gulags after the amnesty for Polish citizens, yet leaving them with nothing so they couldn't leave Kazachstan or any other distant parts of the country.

The vid also mentions Lebensborn. Those young enough not to remember their Polish parents may still live in Germany not knowing they're Polish. Those old enough to remember their Polish parents were often beaten and victims of medical experiments.

And the list goes on.

The overwhelming majority of pages on that site are about other things - often intended to shock - and human suffering should not be a voteuristic experience for web surfers.

The crimes of the mid-twentieth century have been bvery well documented in other less sensational sources. Have you read Norman Davies on this - he doesn't flinch from describing the horrors, however he writes in a sensitive way. Anne Appelbaum's book on the Gulag is good too.

Jon do me a favour watch the video then we can discuss/debate if you like don;t just automatically dismiss something because assumption alone,I'm counting on that spark that I know you have you have.

Yes, but a certain type of person doesn't view history as facts to learn from but instead things to pick and choose from to support his bigotry, in the way that Dolno does.


Yes, but he's methodologically unsound. Snyder has written some very good work on the topic. Have you read Bloodlands? No doubt the British expat in Lower Silesia would love the bits about Soviet citizens being starved to death etc.

I never, ever watch videos; I prefer to read. Some of the stuff that I've read from serious historians is chilling enough, as are some of the stories I've been told by people who lived through those awful times. There can be no denying that wartime Poland was one of the most dangerous and unpleasant places to be, and both the SS/Wermacht and the Red Army made it so.


Not yet.

@TheOther

Ask any old polisg ww2 survivor and like greggys example thwyll tell you the treatment under the nazis pales in comparison to the soviets. For one the nazis didnt commit anything like katyn against the poles. Most of the poles who were killed by Nazis were enemy combatants or civilians who helped jews, saboteurs, spies, etc. Also a lot of poles were 'germanized' esp around silesia and most poles were simply left alone by the nazis as long as they didnt help jews or fight against the..

The nazis never had a program or any plans to exterminate poles as a nation so your statement that without the russians poles wouldve been wiped out is incorrect. They used poles for forced labor yes but there wasnt a final solution for poles in the nazis eyes.

Not true, Adrian. Google "Intelligenzaktion" and "AB-Aktion". Roughly 60.000 Polish victims by the end of 1939.

Did the housebound Zionists such as Lyzko, the "Taxpaying Voter" (Ha ha ha), or homosexual jon357 authenticate this claim?

60,000 would be a stunningly large number considering that the constant allegations (i.e., blatant lies) of the aforementioned trio are that Poles were too busy being useful to the Nazis in persecuting, displacing, rounding up, dispossessing, torturing and murdering Jews.

They killed millions, Adrian. Shocking atrocities.

Mass killings of Polish intellectuals and hospital patients by the Nazis started in September 1939. The number of victims is higher than Katyn but in any case it is not about numbers but about sick ideology of totalitarian rulers and their willing followers.

The last people who witnessed those events will all be dead in 5-10 years. After that it will probably be open season on the truth (as it is now with the Armenian genocide.

Regardless almost any ww2 polish (not polish jew) survivor will tell you they preferred nazi occupation over soviet occupation any day. The nazis didnt treat the average non combatant in nearly the same way as russians/soviets. Same thing in ukraine thats why theres such a hatred of moskals as they call them. The ukranians too tend to prefer nazi rule over soviet amd indeed collaborated with nazis against soviets. However when nazis refused to allow ukraine to be independent the upa fought against them