WWII - who really was the first to help Poland?

There most certainly are. The fact you can remember that shows that you'd really benefit from reading more about history. There are a lot of very relevant facts that are, sadly, completely overlooked

Did I already tell it?

Serbians were first to help to Poland. First kind of dramatic situation, real crisis and tension in Europe due to German attack on Poland, caused Serbians.

@Taxpaying voter
Thank you. I read a lot about history. Do you?
There was also my grandparents' generation - first hand history. Like my parents' neighbour who talked about women dragged from a crowd by Red Army soldiers to be raped.

Or my grandma's comment: Russians were even worse.

Yes. And I also go to places to see for myself. For example, once you have read about it, the train journey from Warsaw to Belzec (only possible at some times of the year, otherwise you just get the train to Zamosc) is entirely different.


Mine too.

I really didn't know Britain was liberated by the Red Army.

Harry has not got a clue about our history in fact he is always the first to deny anyone who puts forward facts that have been passed down from people who lived through those terrible times in fact the way Harry logic works is that my parents deportation to Siberia was a free holiday from Stalin, the rape of women and murder of teachers policemen and ex servicemen in my parents village was a mere fabrication an lie, beware the old school expats that came to Poland many years ago to escape conservative Britain still hoping to find the embers of Marxist soviet ism in Poland all they found was hard work for not allot of money as was the way in Poland at that time, they cannot even leave Poland for Britain as their net worth would leave them in poverty back in their homeland.

My only regret is that we Serbians didn`t kill more of our common Polish-Serbian enemies. We killed many but, not enough.

@dolnoslask
I'm really sorry to hear what happened to your family.
As for the Red Army, well obviously some need to rationalise why the Allies were so willing to cooperate with Stalin.
As for the poster in question, if I were him, I'd definitely leave Poland if I hated all things Polish.

Are you trying to say that only Poles were liberated by the Red Army?

By the way, it would be best if you don't use the word 'liberated' when talking about the Red Army and Poland. There's a certain British gentleman who is posting in this thread who will be extremely upset if he notices that you're saying that the Red Army liberated Poland. So far I think you've got away with it but the night is still early.


Interestingly that's the basically same comment made by the Polish nobleman who used to own the palace which used to stand where the US embassy now is in Warsaw, speaking after the Commies seized his property after he refused to sell it to the American government.

My grandparents weren't part of nobility. Just poor people, forced labourers during the war - the untermenschen.
I asked about Britain and the Red Army as you mentioned your grandparents' generation in response to my post about my grandparents' generation's experiences with the Red Army.

After all you claim I should read more history - enlighten me. Teach me something I don't know.

Kudos to you for admitting it. The Polish internet is full of idiots claiming that they come from pre-war nobility, like it was somehow shameful to be descended from ordinary common people who had a hard life.

I notice that among that generation, the view that the Russians were worse is widespread, not only in Poland, but also in the Baltic states and Ukraine.

There's nothing wrong about coming from nobility, is there?
You're surprised about the negative view of the Russians in part of Europe, well, if you read into the history, you won't be surprised anymore.

No, but if you listen to people online, you'd think that the entire country was nobility before the war. It's nonsense of course, but that's how people behave.


I'm not surprised at all, not when you read about who these soldiers were and how they behaved. I've visited all the Museums of Occupation in the Baltic states, and they all make it crystal clear that the Germans at least behaved with some dignity, whereas Russians behaved like animals.

We can't deny that the Russians removed the Germans from Polish territory, but they did it at a tremendous cost to Poles and Poland.

Funny to see these two in disagreement.



Some people need to "top" others. It must be some psychological need based on some deep seeded insecurity. There's nothing like someone who thinks he's descended from royalty because he's a closet queen.

A mistranslation - the szlachta were between 12 and 18%, to large a number to be considered nobility. Freemen is an option there, so is ruling class, so is gentlefolk.


Wow, 'usual suspect who's name, location and life histrory we know', a quote from years ago without any point...

And who's in the closet?

Get a life.

Citizen is the most accurate option. That term was at use in 19th century and binging of the 20th.


Harry is an obnoxious commie. He see history in the light of his bias.


Soviets liberated no one, unless you talk about people's property, rights and freedoms, yes they 'liberated' nations from those all right.

How would you describe those people (the ancestors of most of today's Poles who did not have voting rights?

I would say a holder or a tenant versus citizenry - obywatelstwo versus wloscianie.
Burgher/Jew/

Don't forget the Serfs - most Poles today are descended from them, and the szlachta protested bitterly after partition when they were freed.

I didn't say that they did. Perhaps if you spent more time reading what has been written and less time obsessing about who wrote things, you'd have noticed that I was advising another poster not to use the word 'liberated' in connection with the red army and Poland.

That wasn't advice. That was being sarcastic towards me and another poster. I still haven't got the answer what was your British grandparents' generation experience with the Red Army.

But in any case, God was first to help to Poland. To provide peace to slain and hope to living.

Face of Jesus Christ by some, face of our God

Looks like one of the refugees from the Middle East.


Would you have preferred that the Germans stayed and finished the job? Because that would've been the alternative.

Nah, they weren't technically serfs, not in Poland, its all more complicated than some myths. The same with partitions, peasants and freed.

He was from the Middle East (and had been a child refugee), and we can guess more or less what he looked like. There's been a lot of archaeological excavations in that city, and there are plenty of skulls of men of his age and period. One of them is probably his. That image is from a computer reconstruction based on a synthesis of all the skulls of approipriate age and sex from the decades around his lifetime.

If he turned up in Torun as a refugee, he'd probably be beaten up by 'Polish patriots'.


Yes, they were serfs, just the same as anywhere else. The szlachta were enraged when the serfs were freed in the Russian zabor.

@TheOther

Hell yea id take the gernans over the russians anyday and any polish ww2 survivor will tell you the same. The germans didnt torture average poles with the nearly same veracity as russians. Jews yes absolutely along w roma gypsies etc. Upa was brutal against pl non combatants too. Then again maybe im impartial since according to one side of the family a german low rank officer saved an uncles (grandmas bro) and fam lives against upa (upa lead tge front lines gerries followed). Under stalin they were deported to smolensk then lived in minsk then finally under Khrushchev they made it back.

I honestly cannot imagine that any Pole would prefer the murderous Nazis over the Soviets. Without the sacrifice of the Russians, the Germans would've won the war, and Poland and the Poles would've been wiped out. Maybe some of them would've survived as slave workers, but that's about it. The Soviets, as brutal and inhumane as they were, at least guaranteed a survival of Poland and the Polish people after the war. How and under what circumstances is another question, but without them 1989 would've looked completely different.


I know... :)

How about thousands of Poles in Soviet gulags, the Katyń massacre and so on?
As a former gulag prisoner put it: if God wanted to ressurect all victims of gulags, the lands all over Russia would move" (in my clumsy translation)

I know what horrible crimes the Soviets committed when they were still cooperating with the Germans, but you still need to ask yourself the question what would have happened to Poland if the Germans would've won the war. You as a Polish lady, would you have really preferred to be ruled by the Nazis instead of the Soviets as Dirt Diggler said? Honest question.

depends what criteria one use.
from strictly humanitarian reasons Nazis rule would by million times better than Stalinist.
the truth is ,Nazis were murdering poles mostly in retaliation or as punishment for disobedience. stalinist were barbaric.more sadistic
my grandma use to tell me alot about wartime.she said ,when wermacht soldiers would visit her home to get food ,they would always leave sweets for children.ect.

even when they were confiscating cows for army,they would never leave family without at least one cow.they would only take cows from those who had many.

sowiets tho would shoot and kill cows just for fun.