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What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?


Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #721
Hating on Russia for being rather more successful at it than others, seems comic. That's all.

Not really, because you could say that the West was also simply just "more successful at colonising than others" and hating the West for it would be "comic" according to you. But I have an impression that descendents of those colonised don't find it particularly comic... 🤔

"The 'Global South' might have more sympathy for the Western coalition against Russia, if they had a deeper historical appreciation of how Russia had oppressed its near abroad."

Yes, I think that could give them a more balanced view and greater understanding of this conflict.
Bobko 25 | 1,954
29 Nov 2023 #722
Yes, I think that could give them a more balanced view and greater understanding of this conflict

Unlike you, who does not know South African history - whatsoever - they likely do know this history. That is to say, Africans know much more about European history, than Europeans do about African history (stupid term to begin with, because this continent is impossibly huge).

I have met many Africans at university and through work. Emphasis on Africans - not African-Americans. Their best is just as good as our best. They don't want to move to any New York, London, or Singapore. They want to improve the livelihood of their people.

All that educated Africans, that remained in Africa, have experienced from the West is: exploitation, lies, a grating paternalistic anttitude and finally a myriad of broken promises. The supposed window that English or French supplies onto the World, is balanced by the incredible xenophobia when arriving in those parts of the world.

I think Africans know why they support Russia.

They don't need your help in understanding your position.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
29 Nov 2023 #723
they likely do know this history.

I honestly doubt it.

Africans know much more about European history, than Europeans do about African history

Which means not a lot, considering how little Europeans know about African history.

I have met many Africans at university and through work.

I can imagine those were not your ordinary African Joe :))))

Listen, Bobko, I have some idea about how little people in different parts of the world know about history of other parts of the world. I mean ordinary people and not someone studying at an Ivy League university in the US or whatever.

Of course, if someone actually went to school (which is not so obvious in Africa) they get some basic facts about world history and to some extent about European history. But even then, just like in Europe, if they learn about, for example, World War II, the focus is on their part of the world. So in Europe we learn more about what happened in Europe and the rest is not so detailed, very general or simply neglected. The same in China, for example, they learn some basic stuff about what was happening in Europe during World War II, but the main focus is on what was happening in Asia.

Also, what you mean by "European history" is in reality "Western European history". Yes, we in Poland also know Western Europe's history better than Westerners know the history of Central and Eastern Europe. And this is what I was talking about when I wrote about African "lack of knowledge about Europe's history - about what RuSSia was doing in Europe for centuries". Many Western European's don't know about that part of Europe's history, so how on Earth people in other parts of the world (not only Africa) would know about it? Politics can play a role too. Do you think that schools in communist China are teaching kids about Soviet rapes in Berlin or about the Katyń massacre? lol

And, sorry, but you'd have to also take into account the level of education in different parts of the world. There are, for example, villagers in countries like Pakistan, who don't know that the Earth is round (no, I'm not kidding). So give me a break...

They don't need your help in understanding your position.

Oh, I think they do. First of all, they don't even know our position or our history (the history of RuSSia's "near abroad"), so how could they understand it?
jon357 74 | 21,838
29 Nov 2023 #724
if someone actually went to school (which is not so obvious in Africa) they get some basic facts about world history and to some extent about European history.

This is correct. I'd go further and suggest that people there don't always get even that, especially in the former French colonies. Education there is sadly very basic at best. 80 kids to a room with one lightbulb and no paper or pens. Things tend to be better in the Commonwealth however world history isn't a priority in most schools in Africa. I've trained School Inspectors for state schools and taught myself in private ones. The situation is sad.

I can imagine those were not your ordinary African Joe

Probably the elite. I however have send quite a lot of time with ordinary people there, ones who've not been abroad, not had the benefit of much education, don't speak any foreign languages and who have more pressing things on their mind than matters a continent away. When they ask me where I live, most had never hard of Poland. The more educated or affluent often thought it was part of Germany or r*SSia.

There are, for example, villagers in countries like Pakistan, who don't know that the Earth is round (no, I'm not kidding).

There are people in the more remote parts of Africa who've heard the word America and assume it's a village somewhere past Morocco.

I'd not underestimate the insights into central and Eastern European history among educated people in Western Europe or overestimate Poles' knowledge of Western history. Not everyone in a large country is the same. I've met educated people here who think that Scotland is Roman Catholic and that Belgium is entirely French-speaking..
pawian 222 | 23,674
2 Jan 2024 #725
A Polish chess champion refused to shake hands with a Russian opponent who openly declares his support for the war and Putin. Let the name of that Russian azhole be withheld as non important.

Respect!!!!

PS. I just read his coach and team had decided on the gesture before the game and they hadn`t cared for consequences, even forced walkover.

Double respect.
polanddaily24.com/jan-krzysztof-dudas-refusal-to-shake-hands-with-russian-chess-player-amidst-world-chess-championship/sport/35148



Bobko 25 | 1,954
2 Jan 2024 #726
@pawian

What would cause more respect is if he beat his opponent in a game of chess.
pawian 222 | 23,674
2 Jan 2024 #727
No. This month you are beaten, next month you beat them. Sth standard in the world od chess.
But declining to shake hands with a corrupt evil putinist, even if you know they can disqualify you, this calls for utter respect.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,743
2 Jan 2024 #728
@jon357

A wonderful insight into how people are educated in other countries, especially on the continent of Africa, which I believe you have a deep knowledge of.

And of what people in those countries believe.
Crow 155 | 9,030
3 Jan 2024 #729
What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?

Answer is very simple.

Russia should show tolerance, give some additional time to Poland, while Poland, as soon as possible, before sh** hits the fan, needs to align its policy with Hungary and Serbia.
Ironside 53 | 12,450
3 Jan 2024 #730
A Polish chess champion refused to shake hands with a Russian opponent who openly declared his support for the war and Putin.

What a cheezy move, well he is young and cocky. Has he won at the very least? It would make him a sore loser if he lost...

--
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #731
Answer is very simple.

Russia should show tolerance, give some additional time to Poland

I'm sorry - I don't understand this plan. Russia should be very forgiving of Poland, while Poland meanwhile f*cks off to make friends with Serbs and Hungarians?

Heh?
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #732
What a cheezy move

Yes, darling, we know you are a pro Russian traitor of Poland. Get lost to Moscow where you belong! Paszoł won, sobaka!!!! Tfu!!!

needs to align its policy with Hungary and Serbia.

Pleeeaaase. Not this same bs again. hahahaha
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #733
@pawian

Sport is no place for such b*llshit.

Play chess. Win. Lose.

Even the Nazis shook hands with Africans at the Berlin Olympics.
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #734
Even the Nazis shook hands with Africans at the Berlin Olympics.

But Soviet Russians boycotted 1984 Olympics. Ha! This is called selective memory. hahahaha
Alien 18 | 4,768
3 Jan 2024 #735
Even the Nazis shook hands with Africans at the Berlin Olympics.

As far as I know, Hitler didn't shake hands with Jesse Owens
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #736
Soviet Russians boycotted 1984 Olympics. Ha!

Assh*le. The Americans did not come to Moscow in 1980. Apparently, because they were so upset we invaded Afghanistan.

That's why we did not go to LA in 1984.

You don't wanna see me, I don't wanna see you.

Hitler didn't shake hands with Jesse Owens

Where did I write Hitler? I meant the athletes.
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #737
The Americans did not come to Moscow in 1980.

hahahaha Darlling, didn`t you say Sport is no place for such b*llshit.

I just gave you an example how Soviet Russians broke your principle. It doesn`t matter who came or didn`t come first.

You don't wanna see me, I don't wanna see you.

You say sth and then contradict yourself in the next post. AmaSSing!!! hahahaha
AntV 5 | 585
3 Jan 2024 #738
Sport is no place for such b*llshit

I agree. Sport isn't politics. Terrible sportsmanship and immature , IMO.

Who won the match, BTW?
mafketis 36 | 10,793
3 Jan 2024 #739
so upset we invaded Afghanistan.

A conflict that needs a review....

For everything wrong with the CCCP (the list... she is endless.....) in Afghanistan it represented civilization progress (I've heard from a few people that most Afghan students in Warsaw Pact countries were firmly on the USSR's side despite knowing first hand the problems those countries had...).

And the goat fvkk|ng hillbillies that the USSR was fighting took exactly the wrong lesson from US (more generally western) aide.... not '"the west is a more reliable ally and generally superior to communist numbnvts" but "with allah on your side we can do anything!" and that reinforcement of their primitive religious beliefs has led to no end of problems....

At present the country is essentially a lost cause and should be put under international quarantine... the rest of the world stays out and Afghans stay in.... but the bleeding hearts and greedy buggers won't let that happen....

I officially no longer care what happens to Afghans at all.... I've heard time and time again that over 90% approve of the taliban so let them have the taliban good and hard and see how they like it.
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #740
I agree.

Azholes and traitors agree, decent people respect other decent people. Simple.
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #741
then contradict yourself

No.

The Americans f*cked our entire Olympics by not showing up. Everybody knows, that those two countries are always on top of the medal count. That's why, nobody takes the results of 1980 seriously, because Americans were not present.

Well, guess what. We can ruin your Olympics as well.

This was not about sportsmanship, but sabotaging a whole national event into which billions were invested.

I think we were reasonably upset, for them not showing up.
Alien 18 | 4,768
3 Jan 2024 #742
I meant the athletes

You call German athletes Nazis? It is not surprising that russian athletes are currently excluded from all international sporting events.
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #743
I think we were reasonably upset

Stop this flow of excuses. :):):):) . It is useless. Soviet Russians broke the credo you were trying to sell to us. Finito and full stop. You are wasting time.
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #744
You call German athletes Nazis?

God, why?

Let me rewrite my sentence:

"Even in Nazi Germany, German athletes shook hands with African athletes."

Better?
AntV 5 | 585
3 Jan 2024 #745
That's why, nobody takes the results of 1980 seriously, because Americans were not present.

Yeah, even back then when I was but a decent young athletic lad, I thought we should've shown the Soviets up by beating their a$$es in competition at the Olympic games.
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #746
I thought we should've shown the Soviets up by beating their a$$es in competition at the Olympic games.

Oh it tickles!

By the 80s, we were routinely smashing you.

What's more, even in 1992 and 1996 our already mixed teams were dominating.

You had to wait till the country fragmented into 15 pieces before you started winning again.

If you add Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan back into the Russian medal count (since it's mostly Russians anyway) - you'll see we are still quite a bit ahead of you.
AntV 5 | 585
3 Jan 2024 #747
No, you (and the East Germans) we're routinely out-doping us. 😀
pawian 222 | 23,674
3 Jan 2024 #748
I was but a decent

No more. :):):)
Bobko 25 | 1,954
3 Jan 2024 #749
you we're routine out-doping us

And in the shining city on a hill, they did not even know what doping was.

It's why, even in despotic Russia, I had to read about Sammy Sosa, Lance Armstrong, Tyson Gay and others.



johnny reb 47 | 7,049
3 Jan 2024 #750
- you'll see we are still quite a bit ahead of you.

By the 80s, we were routinely smashing you.

WHAT ! How quickly you forget my Russian friend.
You were using professional athletes and we were using amateur college kids.
The all-time classic was when in one of the most dramatic upsets in Olympic history, on February 22, 1980, the underdog U.S. hockey team, made up of college players, defeats the four-time defending gold-medal winning Soviet team at the XIII Olympic Winter Games in Lake Placid, New York.

The Soviet squad, previously regarded as the finest in the world, fell to the youthful American team 4-3
ooh rah !


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