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What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?


mafketis 36 | 10,791
27 Nov 2023 #691
If you count war casualties at 250K, that results in a minuscule reduction in the size of the labor pool

Absolutely no regard for the value of life.... typical russian, counting deaths of fellow citizens, killed due to the hubris of his own government in the hundreds of thousands and just kind of shrugging.....

It's attitudes like that that make russia into a trash heap of filth and degradation....
Miloslaw 19 | 4,743
27 Nov 2023 #692
Russia has a labor force of 73M people

Really?
Is that all?
How many of them actually produce ANYTHING?
How many take too many sick days?
How is it that with such a huge country you have such a small labour force and such a pathetic GDP?

I know you won't reply to my questions.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
27 Nov 2023 #693
I know you won't reply to my questions.

Why do you think so badly of me?

Really?

Yes?

Is that all?

I'm quite sure. This is data from the World Bank's website. Do you know that there are actually many more, secretly working for Russia somewhere? It sounds like you do.

One reason our country has such a tiny labor force, as you say, is that we lost almost 30 million people recently - in part, because we were defending your ass.

Estimates for what Russia's population would be had it not been for the world wars, range from 200M to 300M+. However, I think it's a very strange question to ask me, and also strange that you think there's something about it that would offend me.

Outside the war shocks, Russia has a demographic picture which is pretty typical for Eastern Europe.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #694
One reason our country has such a tiny labor force, as you say, is that we lost almost 30 million people recently - in part, because we were defending your ass.

I get it, but percentage-wise Poland lost more population during World War II than the whole of Soviet Union, not only RuSSia. Actually, again - percentage-wise, it was Belarus that lost the most of its population due to WWII (over one quarter of its population), Poland comes "second", then Ukraine on the "third place" and only then the rest of the USSR:

businessinsider.com/percentage-of-countries-who-died-during-wwii-2014-5
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #695
percentage-wise Poland lost more population during World War II

It's not a competition, or at least a competition anyone wants to participate in.

The gentleman asked me a bewildering question regarding why Russia's labor force only amounted to 73M.

I tried my best to answer it, without being too snarky.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #696
@Bobko, I know it's not a competition, but Miloslaw also mentioned GDP and Poland has a higher GDP per capita than RuSSia, despite having bigger population losses (percentage-wise) during WWII than RuSSia.

Also, I've decided to use this opportunity to inform people what big losses those first three countries (Belarus, Poland, Ukraine) suffered during WWII (in case they didn't realise).
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #697
And I've decided to do that because of this comment of yours:

we lost almost 30 million people recently - in part, because we were defending your ass.

Who is "we"? Because if you mean RuSSians then where did you get those "30 million"?
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #698
Who is "we"?

LOL.

Ok. Russia lost 14M people, Ukraine lost 6.8M. The other 13 republics make up the remainder.

Feel better?
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #699
@Bobko, yes, because what you wrote was either ignorant or dishonest. So there's nothing to "LOL" about.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #700
yes

I'm glad.

As I told you it's not a competition.

30M is used as shorthand for when discussing WW2 losses for the USSR. The actual number is more like 26M.

As Velund argued, there's many ways you can slice that data. To many of those 6.8M Ukrainian dead it would be a surprise to learn that they were written down as Ukrainian in the afterlife. They very well could have been Russians, living in what was then known as the UkrSSR.

The same story you can tell about Belarus. Even countries like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan sent many thousands of Russians - surprise!

That's why I LOLed. Your nitpicking over the dead is stupid.
pawian 222 | 23,674
28 Nov 2023 #701
because we were defending your

DFY and your stalinist grandpas who first invaded Poland in alliance with Hitler in 1939 and then chased Hitler away to establish Soviet occupation in Poland for 45 years.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #702
They very well could have been Russians, living in what was then known as the UkrSSR.

"Could have been"? Firstly, that's not enough for me. Secondly, I doubt they were that many of them. And thirdly - they still count as the population of then Ukrainian and Belarusian Republics within the Soviet Union and now - as the population of Ukraine and Belarus.

That's why I LOLed. Your nitpicking over the dead is stupid.

It isn't stupid, because you were talking about the population/labour force of today's RuSSia and you have no proof that if those Russians who lived in Ukraine and Belarus didn't die during WWII they would move to RuSSia thus making today's RuSSia labour force bigger.

first invaded Poland in alliance with Hitler in 1939 and then chased Hitler away to establish Soviet occupation in Poland for 45 years.

And this too, yeah...
pawian 222 | 23,674
28 Nov 2023 #703
30M is used as shorthand for when discussing WW2 losses for the USSR. The actual number is more like 26M

Stop pretending you care so much about your dead, putinist azhole. Thousands of Russian citizens have already died in Ukraine and nobody in Russia cares . Still new thousands are sent by Putin to the meat grinder.

PS. I was wrong. Russian cannibals care coz they prefer to kill their victims on their own, instead of devouring rotten carcasses sent from Ukraine after weeks of lying in muddy trenches. hahahaha
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #704
because you were talking about the population/labour force of today's RuSSia and you have no proof that

You have no proof either. I gave a wide ranging estimate that I scooped from reading a lot of academic literature on the subject of Russian demographics.

Bottom line - Miloslaw asked a retarded question.

I don't even accept the premise that 73M is something to be ashamed of. We have more working people than there are people in general in France or the UK.

France had the largest population in Europe for ages. Russia only caught up with it recently (in historical terms).

Why is it that through our enormous territory we are also expected to populate it like mice?

Why doesn't anyone come up to a Canadian or Australian, and ask him if he's ever looked at himself in the mirror and thought about why they have such tiny populations despite a continent-sized landmass?
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #705
You have no proof either.

That's why I stick to facts and known (and correct) numbers. You can't possibly claim that all the population of Ukraine and Belarus viewed themselves as ethnic Russians during WWII and yet you lumped everyone together as RuSSia's losses. That's simply incorrect/dishonest.

Bottom line - Miloslaw asked a retarded question.

I must admit I don't get it either.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #706
I must admit I don't get it either.

I think he was under the illusion Russia had 330M people like in the United States, but that they are simply too idiotic and corrupt to make it as rich as the US. Other explanations don't make much sense.

Yes, Miloslaw. Your bloc of a billion people is attacking 150M strong Russia, with just 73M labor force, and the fight still looks... close?

Also, your combined economies are about 25 times larger than Russia's.

Given how you usually like beating on liliputians like Gaza and Afghanistan - this must truly be a heroic battle on epic scale. I understand.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #707
Given how you usually like beating on liliputians like Gaza and Afghanistan - this must truly be a heroic battle on epic scale. I understand.

Now, now, don't be so modest - that's RuSSia's forte too - after all, Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine aren't exactly giants, especially if compared to RuSSia.

Yes, Miloslaw. Your bloc of a billion people is attacking 150M strong Russia, with just 73M labor force, and the fight still looks... close?

No, Bobko. Our bloc isn't attacking RuSSia. It's RuSSia attacking much smaller and poorer Ukraine and the fight still looks... close?
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #708
RuSSia attacking much smaller and poorer Ukraine and the fight still looks... close?

You are an idiot if you think this conflict is just that.

Sorry for calling you an idiot.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #709
@Bobko, that's the reality - you keep invading small or poor countries that you think won't fight back... whom you thought noone would defend or stand up for... How "mighty" of you... 🤮
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #710
whom you think noone would defend or stand up for

Defending small helpless countries is Russia's middle name.

Nobody, in the history of humanity, has spent as much blood, treasure, or political capital as Russia on liberating small, helpless peoples.

Sorry, just a fact.

1) Slavs from Ottomans
2) Vietnamese from Americans
3) Cubans from Americans
4) Angolans from a whole host of a$$holes
5) South Africans from racists
6) Ethiopians from wannabe colonizers
7) and everybody else, too many to list
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #711
Defending small helpless countries is Russia's middle name.

OMG

Nobody, in the history of humanity, has spent as much blood, treasure, or political capital as Russia on liberating small, helpless peoples.

You mean "liberating" them from their independence and their lands. 🤮

Sorry, just a fact.

Sorry, but that's bullsh1t.
pawian 222 | 23,674
28 Nov 2023 #712
Defending

Yes, Russians defend other countries against their citizens who refuse to accept Russian rule!! hahaha

Ale wic! :):):)

has spent as much blood,

You`d better spend your blood and all energy and effort on improving your pathetic standard of life in Russia and becoming a civilised nation in result.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #713
Sorry, but that's bullsh1t.

70%+ of the world sees Russia as a liberator, and America as an oppressor.

Again, facts.
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #714
@Bobko, is that 70%+ as "factual" as your 30 million "Russian" WWII casualties? :))) Sorry, but as you can imagine - I don't trust your estimations.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #715
@Paulina

This is what the last two years of anxious articles by Western authors about losing the "Global South" has been about.

Chinese, Indians, Africans, and South Americans stubbornly refusing to see the Russians as the bad guys.

If you're so smart, you tell me what's going on?
mafketis 36 | 10,791
28 Nov 2023 #716
stubbornly refusing to see the Russians as the bad guys

Places where there are lots of sh]tholes like russia... big surprise..... but when they try to move.... they go to the countries they call the bad guys and not 'good guy' russia.... hmmmm
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #717
Chinese, Indians, Africans, and South Americans stubbornly refusing to see the Russians as the bad guys.

If you're so smart, you tell me what's going on?

I think it's due to the fact that the West has colonised those parts of the world in the past and so people there look at war in Ukraine through these "optics". I suspect it's also due to the lack of knowledge about Europe's history - about what RuSSia was doing in Europe for centuries both as tsarist RuSSia and as the Soviet Union.
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #718
lack of knowledge about Europe's history - about what RuSSia was doing in Europe for centuries

Ahhh....

Russia was colonizing, even before it was cool?

Really?

Would you apply this absolutely anachronistic and ahistorical lens to say, Prussia, or Austria?
Paulina 16 | 4,204
28 Nov 2023 #719
@Bobko, I can apply it to anyone that it applies to, including Poland.

eh

anachronistic and ahistorical

Eh?
Bobko 25 | 1,953
28 Nov 2023 #720
Eh?

I understood your argument as: "The 'Global South' might have more sympathy for the Western coalition against Russia, if they had a deeper historical appreciation of how Russia had oppressed its near abroad."

I laughed out loud at the idea, because back then truly everyone was doing it. Hating on Russia for being rather more successful at it than others, seems comic. That's all.


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