What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?

Like the Budapest memorandum, signed by russia (which then unilaterally broke its word)


nope it wasn't


you mean as already happened in MAriupol (10s of thousands of civilians killed by russia?) or Bucha? Those won't happen again?

you are not only old, but you're crazy, crazy crazy

go to russia if you like the way they do things... the US is clearly not your type of country

One of us has problems with English and it's not me.
Do you know the difference between "killed" and "executed"? Google is your friend.


I am smart enough to know the difference between "killed" and "executed". You don't. What's your problem?

So far, it's your adorable Z friends that executed Russian POWs.

Rich, you are drowning and clutching at straws here, which won't save you from drowning....Maf never mentioned the word executed.
You did.
Is there a hint of guilt there?I doubt it.....
But the difference between killed and executed is extremely subtle.
They both mean dead!

A decent Russian man whose 12 year old daughter drew an anti war picture at school, was arrested and sentenced to 2 years coz they found out he also made anti war comments on the net. The child was sent to a juvenile correction facility.

This is Russia, the prison of nations and citizens.

Oh, that's okay, according to russians he wasn't arrested because of his daughter's picture but because he had written things that disagree with the russian government...

No really, that was the explanation of bobko, who certain doesn't have the pair needed to express his own opinion when it's not what he's been told it is.

It remains the correct explanation. This man's story was plucked out of the hundreds of thousands of such stories precisely because of the unique coincidence of his daughter's paintings. The BBC and Voice of America are not unsophisticated organizations. They're practiced at these things, for more than half a century now.

Even overzealous state security workers eager to please the Kremlin understand how arresting people because of their kid's drawings would draw outrage even amongst docile Russians. This was clearly a miscalculation, and it clearly backfired.

It's not policy, and therefore it doesn't bother me.

They're prosecuting hundreds for saying what they think about the war?


North Korea with more mosquitos.

talk about saying the quiet part out loud.....

I was attempting to be transparent about the state of things and said "hundreds of thousands", not "hundreds" because it is happening at all levels of the system. In schools, in universities, in hospitals, in ministries, in the military and so on. Top down a sort of "party line" is being enforced. If we are talking about cases that land in the courts and result in actual arrests, then yes the number is probably in the hundreds.

However, don't tell me now that this does not happen in the West when it is at war. The reason these things can be "prosecuted" is because the Duma passed laws that ensured the legality of such actions. In the US you can point at things like the PATRIOT Act, that many people remain unhappy with, and some go so far as to say it changed the very fabric of the contract between the people and state in this country.

Under Russian law, what is happening with these people is legal. They have been advised of the illegality of these potential actions, and they persisted. Let them be martyrs for their cause.

If you question how the Duma passed these laws, and therefore the entire democratic principle underpinning Russian government - that is a different question.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_against_the_Vietnam_War

wrong again.... making protests illegal is not a sign of strength but a sign of weakness.... russians are weak and pathetic and the fact that they accept restrictions of speech is yet another manifestation of that

get out of Ukraine!

We have these nomarks marching up and down and foaming at the mouths (often literally).

Have a look at their website; after all, your tax rouble is probably funding them...
stopwar.org.uk

Never a truer word spoken!

Yes, they are weak but no, they will never stop the invasion. They are like the bugs in this old "Starship Troopers" movie. If you want to win, you have to kill the Brain....and we know who is the Brain.

And it isn't even about how the law is written. It is about how it is actually applied. Authoritarian governments often try to use laws that at least seem reasonable or positive on their face, but will be absolutely used in a way to crush dissent and strengthen their power.

It is to be selectively applied against regime opponents. Exactly how Russia used laws to crack down on independent media.

@Korvinus

Historically Russia has always been somewhat lawless. Instead of courts, most disputes were resolved by the commune, based on shared understandings. Not to be confused with the "understandings" of Thieves-in-Law, but ancient Russian "understandings" of justice. The official codex of laws was often viewed with derision.

A popular saying in 19th century Russia was: «Строгость российских законов смягчается необязательностью их исполнения». Translation: "The draconian nature of Russian law is tempered by its rare enforcement."

This attitude towards law carried through into the Soviet era.

Things changed with the coming of Putin and Medvedev, both lawyers by training (in Medvedev's case, he is a professor of law). These two fellows assign huge importance to laws. This is why Putin engaged in his absurd little switcheroo with Medvedev, instead of just ripping up the constitution. This is why Putin justifies his constant grip on power through various legal maneuvers. The laws against foreign agents, laws against homosexual propaganda, laws against foreign adoption, etc, etc.

He (Putin), claims to have learned this from the West. He believes this is the way things are done in your "civilized" world, and this is why he cloaks himself with these legal justifications for every action. He sees how the west bludgeons its opponents with laws, and he tries to keep up. When they then call him a dictator and a butcher, Putin is only half-feigning surprise. I think there is a genuine disconnect between how Putin views his own actions, and how they are interpreted in the West.

On some level, he thinks of himself as the most democratic and law-abiding Russian ruler in history. Western outrage, therefore, is synthetic in his view.

He haven't ever heard about Gorbachev, right?

@Bobko
With regard to #375

The difference is the difference of attitude and how it's being used. Both political parties in U.S.A and other parties in western countries try to use media combatively as it's collectively agreed that it's better then physically eliminating opponents and traitors (political opponents).

While laws, being enacted in as broadest as possible way to not only benefit themselves as much as possible (which you mention) but, also to gain more supporters and lower unrest when in need to do it (comprise is easier to perform during such events)

Putin compared to western leaders performs things far less subtle (especially covert operations like assassinations and open power displays), is not only distasteful but, a reminder of mafia like tactics and paints him very much of a criminal.

A criminal using and abusing laws to his own benefits, rightly gets painted as a rogue leader.

His cynical view of laws angers and infuriates any person wanting compromise, law abiding citizens or justice to be one of the most important values in their own and other societies. It also creates suspicion and possible animosity from any followers of religion, due to followers of God's commands will keep an watch eye on anyone breaking secular laws (due to it being a step closer to breaking God's laws which is far more vital to uphold)

Putin and his allies fill their pockets, live in opulent mansions and palaces, keep their mistresses in luxurious apartments in Moscow or Switzerland, send their children to study abroad (although they should not be able to pay the costs of such an education from their official ministerial revenues).

The army and the secret services receive a large part of budget, but without any oversight (some of it is not disclosed to the Duma, even though it's a puppet parliament) these funds are wasted by corrupt officials.

At the same time millions of Russians live a short and miserable life in subhuman conditions, without running water, literally sh*itting into buckets, entertaining themselves with alcohol, crocodil and tales of "Russia strong". While swallowing buckets of primitive propaganda (and moonshine) they are being robbed of their potential wealth, health, future.

With its massive resources Russia could be a civilized, prosperous country that provides its citizens with ample opportunities. Due to corruption of its government, lack of oversight from democratic institutions or free media it quickly becomes a third world state that educated people flee in droves.

I agree.


Yes, through your helpful actions.

P.S. As soon as we become prosperous and civilized enough we should attack Poland.

What a disgusting post!
Russia will never become prosperous now.
And if you ever attacked Poland that would be the end of Russia.....loads of little independent states .....idiot!

Not in our or our children's life time.
Russia should concede with a white flag and cut their losses now.
Have you seen these headlines yet ?
Russia's President Vladimir Putin could be a 'dead man walking,' a former CIA counterintelligence chief told an interviewer.

No, you shouldn't, ....by the way, greetings to St. Petersburg.

amazing at how quickly russian thinking (even in jest???) turns to violence....

truly prosperous countries no longer want to attack their neighbors... a stage of socio-political evolution that russians have not caught up with (thanks mongols for setting them back so far....)

@Bobko
#379
What then? Finish the job for the NSDAP? Nuclear wasteland of a richly agricultural land? What kind of differance would you be to Ustashe croats that did their Crimes on Serbs? Just becaouse it will be nukes instead of barbed wires and primitive tools?

"We will finish the Poles! With refined technology!" So I ask, what then? Will everyone be legitimate without any complaints to nuke Russia to the Stone Age? With it the globe?

Where is Kalmar of Slavs? Where is Bismarck of Slavs? Where is the country that could create a United Slavic kingdom?

What then if Russia wins in Ukraine? Invade Poland? Germany? France? U.K? Brazil? U.S.A? How much bloody does the bear hunger for? How many more deaths is it interested in? How much more increase of pain and suffering caused by own pain and misery?

Suffering in life is a human condition when filled with sin, guilt, abandonment and rejection.

Do Russians really believe that Russian culture is the only way? That it has to be? That it isn't created mainly due to it's circumstances? Being conquered by mongols, then fighting them off to their own freedom? Why abandoning Slavic ways? Why copy-cat the mongols too much? Think Russians that mongol traditions are Slavic traditions?!

Should Poland copy-cat Russia? Should Poland dwarf the Russian Federation just like the Russian Empire dwarfed the mongols?

Why is a Union so impossible to comprehend for Russia? Unwillingness to even work for joining the E.U.

A European Union, part of the club. Instead of grumbling by being left out and ignored. It is Russias choice sweetheart, just a very difficult one with very few guarantees of any privileges. But, a lot of hard work

A lot of the Russian nobility was Mongol in origin. Most famous of them was probably Simeon Bekbulatovich, who Ivan the Terrible placed on the throne instead of himself, for a brief period of time (as a cruel joke). Then there is the Yusupov family, who's descendant Felix Yusupov murdered Rasputin. Also, you have the Naryshkins, descended from Crimean Tatar lords. Many, many families... Akhmatovs, Mamayevs, Chingisovy (literal Genghisids), Urusovy, Kantemirovy, etc. You would never know they were asiatic in origin, because today they all look very European indeed through marriages with all of Europe's noble houses.

Typically Mongol princes were made Russian princes after being conquered, and their descendants enjoyed noble status. So Russia is not copy-catting the Mongol Empire, but is in part constituted by the people who were its architects. If you look at a map of the Mongol Empire, and where most of it ended up, then you will see a large percentage of what was the Golden Horde and the Great Horde are still under Russian control. Russia would not have the size it has, and its history would be totally different if we did not have the Mongols play a role in our development.

Photo of Prince Felix Yusupov (a blue-eyed Mongol):

• 
  prince_felix_yusupov.jpg
  

And now history's going to take another turn, with r*SSia (or more specifically what's left of it after the war) as a vassal state of China.

Maybe through this experience we will come back to haunt you later, with a greater vengeance. If the Mongol yoke is any precedent, then living under the Chinese will also make us unique among the "white" races.

In the question of vengeance against the West, there is no price that is too great to pay. Even becoming Chinese vassals.

vengeance for what? your own failures?

maybe russia is a sh}thole because that's all russians are capable of

look inside and fix what's wrong rather than externalizing your self-hatred like you do now....

The days of that sort of game of thrones thuggery are long past.


So many citisens of the r*SSian 'federation' aren't white at all, and will doubtless be pleased to have the upper hand over their oppressors.

I suppose you'll be allowed a rump state, somewhere around the remains of Moscow. Agricultural, like Belarus.

Are you angry at me that your government forces you to die in a war you will get nothing positive from? Why on earth would you feel compelled to reply to my post with this outburst? Are you a woman? Post tits.