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What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?


Velund 1 | 395
8 Apr 2018  #271
because of the past but also because of Putin.

Putin is the best leader that Russians can afford now. He provides stability and slow but steady progress. It is quite liberal, compared to many western politicians - there is some media outlets like Echo of Moscow or Silver Rain that blame everything that they see around - but nobody tries to shut it up or cut their access to broadcasting resources (like RT in US or UK). Open extremism is prosecuted immediately, at the same time. Putin is really expensive guy, even US Federal Reserve cannot print enough dollars to buy them (anathema!). And, last but not least, any competitors on a last elections was dwarfs, compared to Putin, in almost all aspects.

Now about relation between Poland and Russia. Let's compare Finland and Poland - both was de-facto vassal states in Russian Empire, both secessed shortly after Nov'1917, when long run of German support for marxist radicals in Russia ended with a communistic revolt and put Russia into a hell of civil war, that was complemented by intervention of foreign military forces. Germany neutralised their current opponent - and created something else, much worse to them as history shown later. Jews, that was somewhat oppressed in russian empire come to full power - and shown the world how things can go wrong.

Finland had fo fight with USSR right before WW-II, and during WW-II Finland was on a wrong side (but was smart enough to stop once germans start to require too much from them).

Now Finland have MUCH, MUCH better relations with Russia, compared to Poland, and making money, profiting from trade. Why? It is pretty simple - finns left the past to history books and museums (yes, there is plenty, and I like to visit that small museums once I have free time while in Finland) and concentrated on current interests of Finland. They not destroying any monuments, not trying to make some stupid moves to show someone that Finland is the country that should be taken into account. They just act as a country that had to be taken into account, and act in interests of Finland, not NATO, US, UK. Even EC interests is somewhat on a second plan (as long as it is possible) once it come to business. Finland not trying to put as much as possible foreign military forces on their territory - and finnish border is one of calmest parts of russian border.

So, if Poland will start acting predominantly in Polish interests, not de-facto under NATO control, it would make a difference. Be pragmatic and stop shouting insults every 5 minutes, and russians will respond by the same (may be not immediately, as they become a bit deaf to anything that they hear from Polish side after a years of **** throwing to all available fans).

None of us will survive Washington's insanity.

That's why Putin showed few new weapons, that is not designed to win a war - but to assure that attacker will not survive this war in any case, guaranteed. It caused panic in a Washington, and we see a row of really stupid moves last months. They cannot decide - is "window of possibilities" to make first strike already closed or it is closing right now. Should they start WW3 now, or it is too late? And what to do with very expensive military projects, that become obsolete before they completed, with US$21+ trillion of debt on a background?
Crow 137 | 7,644
8 Apr 2018  #272
I fear that you choosed right time to pray.

Since morning news I increasing amount of prayers. Its not easy you know. I starting with Holly Maria, Jesus, His Father, then comes the Svetovid and finally my Christian Saint protector of family and our direct connection to ancestors- in case of my clan that is St. Arhangel Micahel. All gets three prayers, at least.
Slavictor 7 | 195
8 Apr 2018  #273
used by syrian government forces



presstv.com/Detail/2018/02/26/553618/russia-syria-eastern-ghouta-militants

... but have no fear,

White Helmets (read: CIA support staff) to the rescue:

veteranstoday.com/2016/11/22/busted-syrias-white-helmets-the-cias-secret-weapon-to-aid-isis/

Unfortunately, clueless Trump doesn't visit Polishforums.com to be informed, so instead this is his reply to the situation:

fort-russ.com/2018/04/breaking-trump-has-meltdown-and-says-syria-russia-and-iran-have-a-big-price-to-pay-for-chemical-attack/

Again - Poland out of NATO, distance itself from the USA.
TheWizard - | 238
8 Apr 2018  #274
Russia will invade 5 minutes later if nato leaves. It cannot be trusted in any agreement and broke every one it ever had. You are wasting your time trying to convince people.
Crow 137 | 7,644
8 Apr 2018  #275
Russia will invade 5 minutes later if nato leaves.

And what would Russia then? What happens next? What Russia gains?
Velund 1 | 395
8 Apr 2018  #276
Russia will invade 5 minutes later

I see 3 sentences and 3 lies.
- Can you provide any credible reason for invasion? Natural resources - no. Routes to lay pipelines to major consumers of hydrocarbons - again no, already laid in Baltic. Agricultural land - there's plenty to put to good use in Russia itself. Sentiments - purely negative. What Poland have to approve possible losses during invasion? Other than moral obligation to put mentally ill neighbour to a good clinic, before it harmed itself and to other neithbours? ;)

- Can you provide at least 5 examples of agreements that Russia broke? There is hundreds of international agreements that Russia sign every year, and should be no problem to list 5 that was broken, if they really broke them all.

- People wish to live happily and to feel that their childs is safe. In Poland, in Russia, in US - everywhere. But US have a system of domination for a small group, not whole nation. And that group is openly say that Earth is overpopulated, and build shelters to survive possible global disaster and keep science knowledge and organisation. Are you sure that world war will not be started by this group to be further masters on the Earth that is liberated from burden of extra population, and huge debts, that masons make during last century?
Tacitus 2 | 852
8 Apr 2018  #277
examples of agreements that Russia broke

Russia's behaviour in the Ukraine is more than enough reason to condemn it. Russia broke with the ultimate taboo in European foreign policy by redrawing the borders by force. Consequently it's neighbours are justified to fear Russia and rely on Nato to protect them, since Russia has no qualm pressuring those who are not protected by it.

In a way I feel sorry for the Russians. They have had so many incompetent and coŕrupt rulers that they are now satisfied to live under a man who promises them national greatness, yet has no viable long-term strategy for his country and enables corruption even more than his predecessors (just more covertly). Russia could be a wealthy country, bit its' citizen are poor because its' elite pluders its' wealth (just look at the number of oligarchs, and the official number is probably too low). However Poland can not affort to go soft on them, because the predictable collapse of the system might encourage Putin to act even more agressively to stabilize his power,
Velund 1 | 395
9 Apr 2018  #278
Russia broke with the ultimate taboo in European foreign policy by redrawing the borders by force.

Why threat to albanians in Kosovo was good reason to break "ultimate taboo" to change borders by force, and threat to russian population in Crimea (that voted to be independent from nationalistic Ukraine at least twice - March 27, 1994 - ignored by Kiev, and Mar 16, 2014) is becoming not a good reason to change borders by referendum?

Is Russia bombed Kiev just like NATO bombed Belgrad to enforce this change of borders? Was there any casualties (other than burning asses of bandera-prayers) during this process?

because the predictable collapse of the system

What collapse do you mean? Russia now is much more stable even than 10 years before. Sanctions now cause inconvenience and decrease economic growth, but pose no threat to system. Political opposition - pure clowns.
Tacitus 2 | 852
9 Apr 2018  #279
) is becoming not a good reason to change borders by referendum?

There was no active genocide against the Crimeans for instance. And to consider this referendum under arms when the opposing side was not given a fair chance to advocate its' cause publically is laughable.

If Putin had restricted himself to Crimea his actions might not have prevwnted any understanding later on. The fact however that he fasciliated and supported a Civil War in the Ukraine (which without Russian support would long since been over) that cost 10k of lives makes Russia irredeemable.

What collapse do you mean?

The collapse that anyone who cares to look for can see coming in the next decade. Russia is living on borrowed time, it is living from substance created during the oil and gass boom. Putin used the money to modernize the army and slightly improve the standard of living, yet has utterly failed to diversify the economy. What is worse is that he failed to invest enough money to modernize the infrastructure which means that in approx. 10 years it will get more and more difficult for Russia to keep its' oil and gas production rate. Russia has nothing except oil and nukes. You can get by on this for some time, but not forever. And one day the Russian people will no longer be satisfied with a stagnant status quo any longer.

Political opposition - pure clowns.

Yet Putin found it necessary to ban the most important opposition leader before the election. It tells you a lot about the weakness of his system that he felt the need to go to such lengths. Putin himself is aware of it since the protests in 2012. Das
Velund 1 | 395
9 Apr 2018  #280
There was no active genocide against the Crimeans for instance.

So, they was need to wait while someone will start to kill russians that lived in Crimea for generations? Can you remember how and at what time Crimea, Donbass and Odessa became a parts of territory that became Ukraine after collapse of USSR?

Many people in Donbass now think that best idea was follow Crimea immediately and return to Russia, saying f*ck to Lenin and their 1918 decree.

Yet Putin found it necessary to ban the most important opposition leader before the election.

Names, please.
But please do not include Navalny. This is not even a clown, and it will never be elected public politician. Just a little thief that tried to steal more than they was able to carry, and once been caught started to play corruption fighter.

PS: Looks like worst scenario is active. Syrian T-4 airbase on the east of Homs province just attacked by missiles.
Velund 1 | 395
9 Apr 2018  #281
8 missiles reported as shot down by air defence systems of syrian airbase. Damaged missiles landed in nearest vicinity of airbase. Civilian casualties reported. US decline that it was attack by US forces.
Slavictor 7 | 195
9 Apr 2018  #282
Read the joyous anticipation of these (((guys))) speaking of the potential destruction of Syria. They can't wait to see it wiped out and already know who sent those missiles in.
Slavictor 7 | 195
9 Apr 2018  #283
guys

Here's the link - twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/983181799474909190
Crow 137 | 7,644
9 Apr 2018  #284
@TheWizard

You are provoker, just for fun. Must be.
TheWizard - | 238
9 Apr 2018  #285
No crow. Russias economy is rubbish, people lives are rubbish and so on so forth. Cant think of a single thing they ever kept their word to except nazis to split up poland. It is a 3rd world country with nukes. Everything written above by the other guy is shameless bs and propaganda and more lies. You must really take us for dummies. Not a word of credibility from anyone in russia, those that had any are dead or rotting in hail. Russia is polands biggest enemy and stalin made hitler look like a toyboy. Russia = losers.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
9 Apr 2018  #286
Russia needs help not war...
If we got any enemies it's those who abuse us and try to destabilize us...
We shouldn't rely too much on Germany as nobody knows their intentions. After all Poles did call them mute people
I would advocate for Poland to protect Poles from any form of Germanization no matter if it's in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, "U.K", France (From Germanic Franks) or to some extent U.S.A cause it's ain't very Catholic. But out of all the Germanic countries Poland has allways had the most problems with Germany, France, "U.K" and Sweden. So relations with those other Germanic countries is much better to prefer and be careful of those that have harmed us in the past already as they might want to do it again. Diplomatic relations and culture building between friendly states should be an priority while arming the Republic. The most important part is of course to boost the economy by as much private ownership as one can possibly make and allow oneself to have. Otherwise it will run out of money (any plans what so ever).

Until Poland regains her strength, it has to rely on U.S.A and if The Russian Federation continues with threats and has nuclear missiles in "Kaliningrad" then Poland will never feel safe from Russia and will distrust her with everything "she" has. No matter if it's a stick or a carrot
Tacitus 2 | 852
9 Apr 2018  #287
So, they was need to wait while someone will start to kill russians that lived in Crimea for generations?

Because this was such a plausible scenario. As anyone who visited Crimea before 2014 could tell you. this Russian propaganda about a supposed threat to the Crimeans was so utterly stupid only someone who has no idea about the circumstances there could bring this up. Crimea was a fortress before it was annexed by Russia, I saw soldiers patrolling the streets, they had tanks, and so on. Even if a few dozen hooligans had found there way to Crimea, there is no chance they could have done anything there.

Many people in Donbass now think that best idea was follow Crimea immediately and return to Russia, saying f*ck to Lenin and their 1918 decree.

Sure, according to Russian propaganda.

But please do not include Navalny.

Of course I mean Navalny. The man got results when he was allowed to compete that obviously frightened Putin. He would not have won, since Putin has the propaganda machinery on his side, but his participation would have exposed that support for Putin is smaller than Putin likes to admit.
SigSauer 4 | 413
9 Apr 2018  #288
Many people in Donbass now think that best idea was follow Crimea immediately and return to Russia, saying f*ck to Lenin and their 1918 decree.

Really? How many people have you spoken to from Donbas? Know anyone who has actually fought there? What an absolute joke. I have yet to meet a single person from Donbas who wanted it to be part of Russia, or thinks its better off under the defacto administration of terrorists. In fact, some of the most passionate fighters in Donbas-1, Donbas-2, and the UA 95th paratroopers are FROM Donbas, as the name implies, and are fighting for their land to be returned. It's not all units from Lviv, as the bullshit that is peddled on TASS and Rossiya 24 would suggest.

You animals can't even administrate a territory the size of Rhode Island without you guys resorting to killing each other. Givi, Motorola, and Alexei Mozgovoi all killed by other Russian terrorists, may they all rest in p***, and hopefully suffered immensely before they bled to death.
TheWizard - | 238
9 Apr 2018  #289
Russia is a 3rd world joke now. I would rather travel to Rwanda. Putin is a mentally ill dictator who actually thinks anyone believes a single word coming from there. That's what makes him mental he actually believes his own crap or he thinks we do. It's beneath human intelligence.
Velund 1 | 395
9 Apr 2018  #290
Know anyone who has actually fought there?

Yes. Many. Yes.

My gf is born and grown in Torez, so while I'm in Russia, I often used (and abused) to put together that endless "humanitarian aid" boxes for friends and relatives that currently live in Donetsk and Torez. And someone come from there time to time, so I can ask live people about what is really happening.

So, while you are trying to make lives of people in Donbass as worse as you can, we counteract. And God will sort it out later, who was right. God is not a stupid, and not prone to be fooled by propaganda. Also, your wishes to other people will be taken into account.

but his participation would have exposed

If my grandmother would have penis, she would be my grandfather. ;)

Electoral base of Navalny and Sobchak is really the same people. If Navalny would participate - he would split current support of Sobchak in half, and maybe cut another percent or two total from other "minors". But Navalny will not participate in a foreseeable future - due to a well known legal reason.
Atch 17 | 2,890
9 Apr 2018  #291
If my grandmother would have penis, she would be my grandfather. ;)

No, no, no! The correct saying is 'and if only me auntie had boll*cks, she'd be me uncle'.
Watch and learn:
youtube.com/watch?v=0VNFi1DLGHE
mafketis 20 | 7,331
9 Apr 2018  #292
The correct saying is 'and if only me auntie had boll*cks, she'd be me uncle'.

The standard Polish version is (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) Gdyby ciocia miała wąsy byłaby wujaszkiem...(if my aunt had whiskers she'd be my uncle)

I've also heard (quote approximate) "Gdyby ciocia miała koła byłaby bimbą" (if my aunt had wheels she'd be a streetcar)

back on topic please
Crow 137 | 7,644
9 Apr 2018  #293
Russia is polands biggest enemy and stalin made hitler look like a toyboy. Russia = losers.

Russia and Poland are both lost and crazy without Serbians.
TheWizard - | 238
9 Apr 2018  #294
Crow, Serbia cannot trust Putin either. No way. He doesnt give a toss about anyone but the billions he stole from Russia for himself and his friends. You can add worlds biggest thief to his CV.


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