Why Poland is not Russia

Of course we can be against and even should coz Russian society has been successfully brainwashed with anti Western propaganda which lasted for decades or even a century now. Poland is considered the West by Russians and we will never be friends. In 100 years` time maybe.

There is no hope Russians will ever opt for peace coz living in a war state is their fave lifestyle.
- This means that Russia has already become accustomed to the new, war-related reality. Society, intimidated by the services, stupefied by propaganda and bought with social transfers, has accepted the new path. Today, there is no unemployment in Russia, and those who went to war or work for the defense industry live very well. Especially in the Russian provinces and in the poor regions of the country, this is a huge qualitative change for the better.

- The Russian elite, after the initial shock of Western sanctions and the deprivation of their luxurious lifestyle, also found their way in the reality of a war state. For their losses, they got something from Putin in return, namely the opportunity to earn money from war. So, they earn and live like kings for the realities of a war state. Putin has their support and peace.

.

Putin and Russian elites do not need peace cos they thrive on war.
What can we do about it??? Keep peace by preparing to war! Europe has to triple its military expenses and soon Russia will implode like the USSR which was finished off by the Cold War arms race.

- Economically, socially and politically, everything has settled down in Russia in these three years to such an extent that turning back from this path is impossible. This would be a huge risk for Putin and the Kremlin leadership. A risk that is not worth taking and that Putin does not want to take. He is convinced that this path is the path to Russia's greatness. For us, for the West, this is a very bad prospect. Russia has become a copy of the Soviet Union, and we have gone back to the times of the "cold war". Let us remember, however, that Russia can function as a militarized state and society, like the Soviet Union once was. Not necessarily in a state of constant war, but in a constant confrontation, an arms race. This has happened before, and the costs of such a race overwhelmed Moscow and blew the empire apart. It will be the same this time.

The whole interesting article here:
wydarzenia.interia.pl/ukraina-rosja/news-wielkie-zwyciestwo-rosji-nad-trumpem-putin-potrzebowal-dwoch,nId,7931832

Only right thing for Poland to do now is join to Serbia and Hungary. To us Poland can trust. To non other.

No, most Poles/Polesses reject both Serbia and Hungary as too pro Russian.

Give Poles a time. In their hearts they can be only with Serbians and Hungarians.

They have pro Russian Serbians and Hungarians in their asses, not hearts. :):):)

Give them time.

We won`t have this time before Russa attacks.

Just don`t do anything stupid like bombing Russia/Russian troops or moving any troops from Poland`s soil against Russians.

Otherwise we Serbians needs to perform `anti rain dance` to save you >

It will be necessary, I am afraid. Refraining from it would be also illogical. You can`t successfully repel an invasion without bombing the enemy. Ukrainians showed us how to do it.

Its shame brate that you die for the papacy and western Europe that passionately hates you, when we have Muslim infestation on Kosovo.

I think you are wrong on both points. If they considered us the West, they wouldn't have their national proverb "курица не птица, Польша не заграница". Examples of many personal friendships - not only online ones - between Poles and Russians contradict the second part of your statement.

You are too much of a pessimist and you have very little faith in Slavic hearts and souls. There can and will be, even if not friendship then, at least, mutual respect and cooperation between Russia and Poland.


This, unfortunately, is also my assessment of the situation.

That's why we have to be against not-so-dobri brat Putin. He is leading Nasha Dobra Majka Slavija on a very bad path indeed.

Putin bad?

Look how EU killed 15 people in Serbia and triggered maiden attempt, by ruining balcony of a rail station in Novi Sad. In order to topple government in color revolution.

Or think about constant genocide on Serbians and segmenting us in many different nations that serve to enable our destruction.

Or think of all that foreign control over Slavic countries. Of assimilation.

Somebody have to end this. Somebody have to stood to it and hit back hard. If its Russia I am with Russians.

I don`t think that Poles themselves like to serve western Europe and extinct in assimilation and as their cannon fodders.

Poland is not Russia, because it is Poland.

Why does no one ask why Russia is not Poland?

Yeah, Torq, but I don't see Pericles on the Russian horizon soon, if ever.

Interesting choice of analogy.

Pericles lost Athens the Peloponnesian War. His foolish policy of gathering all the population behind the walls of the city, and relying on the navy to punish the Spartans - led to overcrowding and then a plague. The plague wiped out the citizenry, including Pericles himself.

Sparta (stupid Orc Sparta, no ships, no money, just meat) won the war, and then started the period of Spartan hegemony. Fans of Pericles do not like to remember this.

Many Russian specialists and Sovietologists in the West also liked to understand the Cold War as a battle between Athens and Sparta.

russian values =/= Polish values

russians accept anything and everything the government tells them (was there any real russian resistance to the Soviet system?) and Poles don't

russians think they exist to serve their government (which owes them nothing in return)

Poles think the government exists to serve them

most/all of the other differences come from that

@mafketis
Besides if values were close, Moscovites wouldn't have kicked out Royalist forces out of Moscow when Poland-Lithuania shortly controlled it. It was found unacceptable with Moscovites core values, similirarily it was unacceptable to have Russia control lands deemed as Poland and uprisings easily sprung up.

It's like oil and water while both being liquids and could be in the same jar

Ah, yes...

Obedience to Tsars vs Rokosze (noble uprisings) and Golden Freedom
Oprichniks vs defenders of individual freedoms (Włodkowic, Zamoyski, Żółkiewski)
Cамодержавие vs Liberum Veto

The values are different indeed, shaped by different historical circumstances, but the two nations share many similar characteristics and remain culturally close (at least on the very basic, folk level).

First of all Poland has a way longer history than srusgoblin muscovite khaganate. Since srusgoblinistania is now basically an ISIS-like terrorist organization, it should be prohibited and dismantled in a similar manner.

There's an old saying: Adversity doesn't shape character, adversity reveals character.

I think it's more accurate than not both at the individual and collective level.

Hey, boy scout, have you walked the chickens out to pee already? Wyprowadziłeś już kury szczać? (as Good Marshall Piłsudski advised your ilk long time ago)


It can do both, and different circumstances require different socio-political solutions. It is easy to judge, not that easy to try to understand.

Poland isn't basing its identity, future and whole existence on being a great power. We literally don't give a sh*it, we want a modern rich state. And we wouldn't trade it for being slaves in some kleptocratic retard ran empire.

It is literally impossible for Poland to wage aggressive wars on its neighbors because CITIZENS not mindless SLAVES will not let the leadership do it.

And this is where the main difference comes into light. Poland has always been a land of law, rights and freedom. At first for up to 10% of population that was nobility but now it extends to everyone. Srusgoblinia always was a corrupt shithole where rulers lived in golden palaces while slaves died in the trenches.

^ - Very good, Korvinus!

See, you can write very well with wit and sense if you want to.

Just give up the...


... nonsense. It's unbecoming of you.

Korvinus brate - congratulations you have beaten Google. There is only one Google hit for Srusgoblinia and it's your post LOL

I must admitt even I - an epitome of logic, reason and objectivity - experience fluctuations of emotions.
I, as a fallible human being, even make mistakes.
Such mistakes have been made regarding the relations, politics, and intentions of Ukraine, the U.S., and other countries involved.
Before I start my reset I confess I'm biased. I favor certain countries over the others.
For example, I feel sympathy for the US and I dislike Ukraine.
I think it is time to redress it.

Let's take another look at those countries and their people with full-fledged objectivity in mind.
Our overview ought to be stared with Trump and in particular with his policies.
It needs to be said that his policies aim at the destruction of status quo. The US is stepping back from the last 30 years of domination and globalisation led by the liberal fraction.
A welcome side-effect of such policy is withering of woke ideology, whether liberals realize it or not, their progressive revolution is done for, it will die with a whimper sooner than later.
However, the world as a whole will face an upheaval.
Most of international relations will have to be defined anew. We can expect chaos and instability.
In such a dangerous time, Poland's situation will be rather challenging.
Trump seems to be looking for an agreement with Russia, he is willing to sell down the river Ukraine in the process.
It means he could be willing to make further concessions. Fortunately Ukrainian leadership is putting aside their corruption and sinister connections, seems to be quite competent and strong.
Contrary to my erroneous belief as stated in the previous post, Ukraine can maintain an impressive military production. Its leadership in adverse conditions resisted Trump's attempt to reduce Ukraine to the US chip on the table of the US-Russian negotiations.

The question that interests me most is Poland's politics in those interesting circumstances.
In my opinion Poland should abandon a doctrine that was never formulated but had been applied by the Polish politicians with lesser or greater success over the last 30 years.
It is very simple, not particularly sophisticated nor wise doctrine. Its practical manifestations can be reduced to the answer to one question. In essence - who will defend Poland?
The answer to that question determines which fraction of Polish politics one supports. In short, it's either an American or German party.
I think those people needs to go.

If by woke ideology you mean bathroom stuff - yes it might have got out of control

If, like many Trump voters you mean old whites sharing power with women and ethnic minorities, that will not be going away. I'm not sure if they will use their economic power or political power, but they are too numerous to defeat

In any case that's an internal US issue - I'm not sure why in conjunction with that they decided to upset everyone else on the planet - Canadians, Brits, Europeans, South Africans - all natural allies who shared the same values, drink beer and like free markets.

Only people they are nice to - Srusgoblinia and Israel

In practice, not defending a major NATO ally with everything US has would equal an end to its empire. Who would trust it? Which party would rely on it, knowing it can be thrown under the bus at any time? And perhaps worse yet, what message would it send to the enemies of US? If US won't defend Poland, why would it defend Taiwan, etc.?

The prospect of US giving up its empire like that is preposterous - it'd be the end of current world order.

If by liberal you mean centrist and left of centre parties and their backers well they picked up the baton late in the race. Globalisation was primarily driven by right wing parties to such an extent it became the orthodoxy then the other crowd joined the **** show. The reason they (left leaning) sold their souls was for electoral reasons. It's impossible to change anything in opposition and difficult to get elected on a mandate to stop job flight for example when people are living on credit with the lure of affordable consumer durables.

With Trump, the AfD or Reform in the UK Their chickens have come home to roost, right wing parties sold people a pup while doing their mates favours. Reagan economics who started the decline, was and is based on the quick endorphin rush of credit. Centre and supposed left leaning parties trotted (no pun intended) along behind them. The net result is that most persuadable people no longer trust established parties.

There does appear to be a paradigm shift under way on the globe. The so called rules based order has been revealed to be a sham, turbocharged for example by the onslaught on Palestine not just Gaza and the outrage over the ICC charging Netanyahu et al. Signatures of the ICC stating they wouldn't up hold its warrants is, I believe it's death knell, It fell at the first hurdle. Old alliances have been fractured and new ones forged especially the shift of attitude in the global south. I suppose the Communist bogey man can't be used to keep the kleptocracies on side.

The most supposedly interesting thing is the arguments used, front and centre are the usual wedge issues which are as old as politics, nothing new there. Secondly, attempts to absolve what may be called traditional voices from any responsibility are laughable. The herd of "independent thinkers" all wading in the same shallow pool will be funny in about 20 years but today they are as useful as cannon fodder for billionaires. Finally, big media platforms and their ideas of free speech are so clearly compromised they will be regulated to death.

What path Poland takes is crucial it should throw its weight behind Europe. I know you don't like the EU and believe it's a German centric operation. I have problems with the EU in that I think it's too economically right wing but at the end of the day it's better being in fighting for reform than out howling at the moon.

Bobi, my likable Russian (50% Polish) Unlike your Covietaligists, I look at it like wars between Persia and Greece. Wast evil empire Persia, and freedom-loving Greeks confronting the tyrannical dictator vastly outnumbered in size of the army and land. Free and proud, they refused to neal facing their Gods, so naturally, they declined to crawl in front of Xsexes and their equally tyrannical son, Darius; rather than crawl or humble themselves, they bravely fought against all odds in the battle of Maraton, wasted the army of enslaved Persians. That is the reason Russians are facing so much resistance in Ukraine. Tyranny against the fight for freedom