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Poland provoked Germany to start WW2 by mobilising first


valpomike 11 | 195
11 Sep 2010 #31
I don't think Poland started any war with Germany, but this is my and many others thinking.
The Germans wanted the world, and many still do. They were, and still are, very unfair to Poland, with there thinking that they are better than Poland, and they are not even as good as Poland. Long live Poland, without any help from Germany.

But this is the way I think.

Also, Poland does not need the Euro money either, this will hurt Poland, if they change.

Mike
grubas 12 | 1,384
12 Sep 2010 #32
And who do you think was cleansed? The soldiers or the high Nazis?

Maybe the fifth column?Besides they should be thinking about it in 1939 instead of yelling " Sieg Hail" and "Hail Hitler".
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
12 Sep 2010 #33
Not enough it seems...or there wouldn't had anyone of you left..
plk123 8 | 4,138
12 Sep 2010 #34
Yes,some Poles started it by attacking the radio station in Gleiwitz.

and you ought to know that is a bunch of BS.. german troop clothed in PL uniforms did all that.

Actually, the wench is right, Poland did preliminary mobilization in March seeing the German threat looming,

right.. the germans were marching on austria and czech then

I don't think that Poland was the aggressor in this whole thing.

yeah, you don't think.. PL was NOT the aggressor at all.

don't think for a moment she doesn't speak out what many think anyhow...

nobody said there aren't many nutters along with her out there

Steinbach is soooo right!
You prove it over and over again...thank you!

no she is not and you prove it by your denials.

"an encouragement for all the Germans in Poland to go west, to Germany proper, where they belong".[60]

and that is true right there.
grubas 12 | 1,384
12 Sep 2010 #35
Not enough it seems...or there wouldn't had anyone of you left..

I am sure they did their best it just wasn't good enough.And I don't think there was any ethnic cleansing I bet they left in fear of Russians.The Germans were running away like chickens when they heard "Russian panzers!".
enkidu 7 | 623
12 Sep 2010 #36
When the Germans would start consider themselves as a victims of the WW2, the rest of the world shall be afraid. Very afraid.
Crow 154 | 9,004
12 Sep 2010 #37
Serbs are already ready. We sense them. We have third sense for Germans. Di** just start to oscillate
Marek11111 9 | 808
14 Sep 2010 #38
Germans were victims of ww2 as many others the only winners of ww2 were banks.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
14 Sep 2010 #39
An acknowledgement at least would be a first step...nothing to speak of an apology (maybe later).

I for one acknowledge that it happened and regret that it did, particularly in respect of the children and women who suffered. Can you acknowledge and do you regret the fact that when the Gerries were trying to ethnically cleanse Warsaw during the Rising my dad was machine gunned and had German Shepherds set on him?

Do you regret the actions of your forebears wherein many children in Warsaw were forced to stand next to their parents and family members against a wall and suffered irreparable emotional and psychological damage when these children were left to survive after watching their family shot around them?

As for expellations of Germans - it was decided by Soviet Union, USA and Britain.
They decided the after-war borders of Poland we had nothing to say. We couldn't
say that we don't want Szczecin and Wrocław and would rather keep Kresy Wschodnie.
Nobody asked us.

Precisely. Responsibility to the Polish population as a whole could be apportioned to same if those 'expellations' (expulsions) were carried out by a government or representative body acting under a democratic mandate of the Polish people. There was no such government acting under such auspices so saying that Poles, as a people per se, are responsible, is misconceived and incorrect. Unless of course one can produce a document setting out that the entire eligible population of Poland were subject to say a referendum on the issue and a majority consented to the expellations...

I will agree to that nice and comfy theory of yours if you admit that the independence the Treaty of Versailles gave you led to your destruction during WWII, without Poland no WWII - so it's all the Poles fault. They should had stayed in Prussia inside the old borders and nobody would had been harmed! There would had been no reason to protest any treaty at all - ergo no Hitler - ergo no Nazis - ergo no war to redraw the borders again!

Let's go back even further in time - do you admit that the German nation per se ought to be eternally grateful for the fact that but for the magnanimity of Zygmunt August permitting the survival of the Prussian embryo that was to become Germany, there would be no Germany, ergo no WW1, no Versailles, no Nazis, no Hitler, no WW2, and, in all likelihood, no you?

How do you, on a daily basis, acknowledge that the existence of your nation was suffered by a nation that your nation subsequently tried to exterminate?

If the situation was reversed, and the King of Prussia had before him on bended knee the King of Poland, would the result have been the same? Aberrations aside, I think not, and that, I suppose, is the eternal difference between Poles and some Germans. It's a real shame and a blemish on your character that you say, in what I can only assume to be a reference to the amount of Poles killed (or should have been killed) in WW2:

Not enough it seems...or there wouldn't had anyone of you left..

Apart from harping on about how you miss your helmet, what is your purpose and agenda on this forum?

What did your kin do to stop the Nazis? What did they do to help the Poles?

Yes, and that is why she's so hated by Poles: it's now much much harder for them to maintain their lies.

What lies Chri... sorry, Harry? Do you mean 'lies' as in Poles 'lie' about the events not occurring, or 'lies' in the sense that Poles do not accept blame for something that they had no control over?

Am I lying when I say that when these events occurred Poland did not have a (genuine) popularly elected government?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #40
Can you acknowledge and do you regret the fact that when the Gerries were trying to ethnically cleanse Warsaw during the Rising my dad was machine gunned and had German Shepherds set on him?

Brandt apology Warsaw

I did it here...Germany did it for decades!
There is no other country owning up and apologizing for past crimes as much as Germany did!

Responsibility to the Polish population as a whole could be apportioned to same if those 'expellations' (expulsions) were carried out by a government or representative body acting under a democratic mandate of the Polish people.

Sorry, but that sounds more and more like a convenient excuse. Nazi-Germany was a dictatorship too and most Germans today were born long after the events - both was never a reason to cut us some slack....especially not by Poles!

Even an acknowledgement of pure historical facts would go along way but even that is seemingly hard to come by in polish mainstream media, why is that?

Apart from harping on about how you miss your helmet, what is your purpose and agenda on this forum?

I don't think you are that new here on the forum so you should already know about it why I'm interested in Poland...my family stems from Breslau and other towns in lower Silesia...I'm a descendant of those expellees. You are living in MY land, in MY house!

What did your kin do to stop the Nazis? What did they do to help the Poles?

You are kidding right? What did your kin to fight the Soviets??? ROFL

Am I lying when I say that when these events occurred Poland did not have a (genuine) popularly elected government?

Neither had the Soviet Russians nor the Nazi-Germans...doesn't disturb the Poles either as long as they can coddle their grievances against both!
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
14 Sep 2010 #41
I did it here

No, you didn't. What you did though is try to deflect by saying someone totally unrelated to you did something that you don't have the intestinal fortitude to do yourself.

Where's your acknowledgment and expression of regret?

Sorry, but that sounds more and more like a convenient excuse.

Sounds like it but it isn't. It's the reality of the situation whether you like it or not.

Nazi-Germany was a dictatorship

If we accept that it was, do you repudiate what Germany did under such dictatorship? Do you find repugnant what that dictatorship did to Poland?

You are living in MY land, in MY house!

My, my - touchy aren't we. Given I live in Oz, you are mistaken. Achtung - can I please have back the not insignificant family fortune that was stolen by your Nazi dictatorship during WW2. It's MY treasure, MINE MINE MINE!! Mein gott!

You are kidding right?

I'm dead serious. What did they do?

Neither had the Soviet Russians nor the Nazi-Germans

Did they have puppet regimes though?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #42
yadda yadda

Again...all defensiveness if faced with their own doings...and peeps like you wonder why Steinbach and others are still so needed.

You Poles just don't have the guts...how disappointing! :(

But then...maybe you just need some more time...another generation or two...after all it's not as if historical facts are going away, regardless of polish "not seeing, not hearing, not telling" behaviour!
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
14 Sep 2010 #43
Again...all defensiveness...and peeps like you wonder why Steinbach and others are still so needed.

You Poles just don't have the guts...how disappointing! :(

Awesome response! When losing an argument, just call the other side out as being 'defensive', throw in an Americanism and finish off with 'you don't have the guts'.

We've been here before haven't we Bratwurst? Prussian Partitions ring a bell? No donning of helmet and into the fray eh? Where's the bravado you normally show...gone.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #44
Where's the bravado you normally show...gone.

What do you know of bravado? Even on an anonymus internet board still denying the ethnical cleansing of millions and the death of at least of one million of women and children...

Not even here showing some guts!

Awesome response!

Well...it's not as if you would be ready to face the facts, isn't it?
Avoiding...turning around, trying to shift the blame, point the finger at others...slimey weaseling out of acknowledging pure facts....nothing new here!

What do you expect?
But then...if you are acknowledge anything or not is quite irrelevant to the facts (don't take it personally) so far away down under or elsewhere.

But I'm sure that some time in the future polish politians will together with german politicians in a peaceful atmosphere lay those demons to rest...(think Putin and Tusk commemorating Katyn, an event thought impossible for decades).

:)
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
14 Sep 2010 #45
Well...it's not as if you would be ready to face the facts, isn't it?
Avoiding...turning around, trying to shift the blame, point the finger at others...slimey weaseling out of acknowledging pure facts....nothing new here!

I for one acknowledge that it happened and regret that it did, particularly in respect of the children and women who suffered.

Would you prefer Tomato or BBQ sauce with your humble pie Krautwurst? Goose.

The really sad thing is that you can't be a man and acknowledge your own countries wrong doing and in doing so, you ostensibly and by default defend the actions of your so-called Nazi dictatorship.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #46
Would you prefer Tomato or BBQ sauce with your humble pie Krautwurst? Goose.

Goose???

Show me when and how Germany ever denied it's guilt? When did we ever not acknowledge our doings?

Come on...I'm waiting!

The really sad thing is that you can't be a man and acknowledge your own countries wrong doing and in doing so, you ostensibly and by default defend the actions of your so-called Nazi dictatorship.

Yeah sure....

I'm a Nazi now for acknowledging the polish ethnical cleansing of Germans and killing about one million of german civilians...yup!
Polish turn speak at it's very best!!!! A coward stays a coward wherever he lives, huh?

Won't help you in the long run though...

PS: Does defending the ethnical cleansing of Germans by the the non-polish "Poles", Soviets, Commies or Marsians or whoever did it after your thinking mean you are a Commie or a Russian or a Marsian???

Polish logic! ROFL
MediaWatch 10 | 944
14 Sep 2010 #47
Again...all defensiveness if faced with their own doings...and peeps like you wonder why Steinbach and others are still so needed.

You Poles just don't have the guts...how disappointing! :(

But then...maybe you just need some more time...another generation or two...after all it's not as if historical facts are going away, regardless of polish "not seeing, not hearing, not telling" behaviour

So Poles are supposed to feel sorry for those Germans expelled from their old homes? You mean the same Germans who would have slept like babies at night had their fueher annihilated all Poles in Poland if he won the war? You got to be kidding me.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #48
So Poles are supposed to feel sorry for those Germans expelled from their old homes?

Should Germans feel sorry for the massacres in Poland? Or the Russians for Katyn?
What do you think?

(You are really great in demanding apologies from everybody else...)

You got to be kidding me.

No, I'm not kidding you!
The least Poles (surely) can do is shutting their mouths when Germans remember and commemorate their victims...talking about them, making movies, writing books, building memorials.

Either you acknowledge what you did or you play dead...but trying to stop Germans from remembering or hacking on about expellees representatives is like wanting it both ways...that won't work (any longer)!
MediaWatch 10 | 944
14 Sep 2010 #49
LOL

Where did I say I wanted an apology for anything?? LOL

But since you brought up Nazi German atrocities against Poles and Russian Katyn atrocities against Poles, can you tell me, did those Poles killed in these atrocities want to see all Germans or all Russians whiped off the face of the earth?

Just wondering.

Well in my opinion if Germans want to write books, make movies, build memorials to Nazi Germans who were in full support of Hitler's intention of whiping Poles off the face of the earth, be my guest. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion. Evidently expelled Germans have taken for granted the fact that they didn't have done to them (be annihilated) what they wanted to see done to Poles who now they want to feel sorry for them.

Erika Steinbach's relatives were pro-Nazi and chomping at the bit to see Hitler whipe out swaths of Poles and then take their lands. But now those same Poles are suppose to feel sorry for Erika Steinbach and her bunch. Incredible.

Go ahead build memorials, write books about those displaced Nazi Germans who want Poles who they wanted killed, to feel sorry for them now. Talk about trying to have your cake an eat it too. Of course that will only prompt Poles to have memorials and books, ect etc about all the death and destruction Germans rained on Poland that lately Poles have put aside in trying to have good relations with Germany. But hey NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED! LOL

Frankly I think mainstream Poland has been a GOOD SPORT about all the hell Germany put it through. Its not like Poland ever demanded hundreds of billions of dollars from Germany for all the German destruction of Poland not to mention the milliions of Polish lives lost that exceed any monetary value. So a German leader bows down and said he was sorry to Poland one time. Wooptee do.

Go ahead let those German expellees who supported Hitler have their memorials, books, etc.. We'll see how far that will promote German-Polish relations. As you would say it will go "ooooopseeeee". But if that's the mentality of many Germans like you, then frankly German-Polish relations were never meant to be. I heard its not the main German opinion, but I could be wrong.

What next sympathetic books and memorials for those Nazi Germans who supported the SS? Which by the way many of these German expellees supported, especially Erika Steinbach.

This is just another German stunt to take attention away from what Nazi Germans did. Its kind of the same reason why Germans are hypocritically prosecuting an old Ukrainian Mr. Demjanjuk, despite the fact most Germans his age today did similar things as Demjanjuk, but are scott free from German prosecutors.
convex 20 | 3,928
14 Sep 2010 #50
Frankly I think mainstream Poland has been a GOOD SPORT about all the hell Germany put it through. Its not like Poland ever demanded hundreds of billions of dollars from Germany for all the German destruction of Poland not to mention the milliions of Polish lives lost that exceed any monetary value. So a German leader bows down and said he was sorry to Poland one time. Wooptee do.

Poland was never in a position to demand anything from Germany. Conditions are generally set by victors in a conflict. In WW2, the victors in that neighborhood were the Russians, and right or wrong, they arranged things as they saw fit...which included punishing Germany and not compensating Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #51
Go ahead let those German expellees who supported Hitler have their memorials, books, etc..

Rofl
Thank you...but it's not something you decide...as much as your officials want to!

PS: Don't sweat it MW, you over there in the US are out of touch with the daily Poland-Germany stuff anyhow...
Why don't you keep chasing "Nazis" about the famous polish jokes? With that you have surely more experience...
MediaWatch 10 | 944
14 Sep 2010 #52
PS: Don't sweat it MW, you over there in the US are out of touch with the daily Poland-Germany stuff anyhow...
Why don't you keep chasing "Nazis" about the famous polish jokes? With that you have surely more experience...

So you want me to go back to talking about the Nazi subhuman intelligence jokes about Polish people? OK

But I thought you didn't like it when I brought that up.

You know, its part of me wanting good German-Polish relations. ;)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,865
14 Sep 2010 #53
But I thought you didn't like it when I brought that up.

You know, its part of me wanting good German-Polish relations. ;)

Our relationship IS butting heads (mainly).
I would miss it! ;)

(Won't stop us from working constructive together everywhere else though...)
MediaWatch 10 | 944
14 Sep 2010 #54
Poland was never in a position to demand anything from Germany. Conditions are generally set by victors in a conflict. In WW2, the victors in that neighborhood were the Russians, and right or wrong, they arranged things as they saw fit...which included punishing Germany and not compensating Poland.

You are right. Poland wasn't in a position to demand being compensated.

But there was nothing to stop Poland from just asking or requesting. Which it never did. Because it was and is a good sport country. Which of course is taken for granted.

Then when Poland does decide to make a peep, it comes across to those who have taken for granted Poland's relative silence, as Poland "making waves" LOL
Harry
14 Sep 2010 #55
You are right. Poland wasn't in a position to demand being compensated.

But there was nothing to stop Poland from just asking or requesting. Which it never did. Because it was and is a good sport country. Which of course is taken for granted.

Germany did pay reparations for Poland and paid them in the fashion directed by the government of Poland. What happened to those reparations is nothing to do with Germany.
MediaWatch 10 | 944
14 Sep 2010 #56
Since you claim to know about this, what was the fashion that Poland got reparations? Was it the Soviet controlled "Polish" government that directed this?
Harry
14 Sep 2010 #57
As far as the historical records I've seen say, Poland's share in the reparations was paid by Germany to the USSR and was then to be forwarded by them to Poland. This was at the suggestion of the government of Poland (which was not at that time controlled by the Soviets). However, it seems that the USSR never got round to actually forwarding the reparations.
nott 3 | 592
14 Sep 2010 #58
This was at the suggestion of the government of Poland (which was not at that time controlled by the Soviets).

You mean it was after 1989? WTF took them so long to pay this money?
Marek11111 9 | 808
14 Sep 2010 #59
Harry:
This was at the suggestion of the government of Poland (which was not at that time controlled by the Soviets).

what are you smoking Harry or you just drunk?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
14 Sep 2010 #60
Well, Bratwurst Boy, your stubborness is not a virtue but a character flaw. While I disagree with Ozi Dan on some issues elsewhere, I must say that he painted you into a corner in these threads.

It is more difficult to pity those who started a war and then became victims (by some definitions) because anything that happened after the initial aggressions is the fault of those who supported such ventures. Let's not forget the mass gatherings of Germans who were enthralled, indeed enraptured by Hitler and company. That stain is eternal.


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