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Modern myths and legends about communist past in Poland


jon357 66 | 16,965
27 Mar 2020 #181
The usual nonsense there.

Jeanneret, Pniewski and Gropius would laugh at you.
Provessive Pole
27 Mar 2020 #182
Jeanneret, Pniewski and Gropius would laugh at you.

Oh?

Jeanneret had strong ties to Zionists, had Jewish friends and contemporaries, and was commissioned work by the Jewish community.

Pniewski collaborated with the communist government to ensure his comfortable livelihood (while true patriotic Poles were hauled off to soviet gulags never to see Poland again) and was commissioned to design the eyesore Jewish theatre in Warsaw.

Gropius went on to marry a Jewish woman.

So like I said: kosher approved.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,269
27 Mar 2020 #183
went on to marry a Jewish woman

What kind of strange and unhealthy obsession is this?
Provessive Pole
27 Mar 2020 #184
Free speech is a strange and unhealthy obsession for you?

OK boomer. Just don't ever call yourself Polish.
jon357 66 | 16,965
27 Mar 2020 #185
So like I said: kosher approved.

Rubbish, boy. Good that you had to google those three giants.

What kind of strange and unhealthy obsession is this?

The usual kind, from people who never see daylight and can't get laid.

Pniewski, btw, was in a very modest way, a genius. So was Kurylowicz, who I had the privilege to meet quite a few times.
Provessive Pole
27 Mar 2020 #186
google those three giants.

Their biographies and legacies are common knowledge for those like me who are in the know.

It very evident now that it was you who needed google in a failed attempt to try and disprove me. :)
jon357 66 | 16,965
27 Mar 2020 #187
for those like me who are in the know.

Pure comedy from someone who's never even been to the continent they lived on.

There's some first class architecture in Poland from te period 48 to 89. a shame (for you not us) that you'll never see it.
Provessive Pole
27 Mar 2020 #188
Pure comedy

Ad hom as usual from the British peanut gallery because you have nothing constructive to contribute especially when your lefty narrative is challenged and you become startled to the core.

So I'll take things back on topic.

Another poster rightfully pointed out that modernist architecture saw its ascendancy during the communist era. You admitted in response to this other poster that these blots on the landscape were not limited to just Poland.

I constructively added to the discussion as to why modernist architecture came about and who either designed it or who it largely catered to (i.e., those whose superstitious beliefs eschewed rich, inspiring, traditional designs which either continued, honored, or complimented local customs and preferences).

If you have some other explanation as to why modernist architecture got a stranglehold in Poland then by all means make your case. Otherwise find another topic.
Atch 17 | 3,415
27 Mar 2020 #189
I wonder why he thinks modernism in architecture is exclusive to Communist societies.

Because he's a complete ignoramus :-D Now - said she emphatically, crossing her arms over her pinnie and settling herself more comfortably against the garden wall - I'm no expert on architecture BUT...............modernism wasn't just confined to architecture and the whole modernist movement in the arts long pre-dates Communism and all those old Bolshies. Modernism has its roots in the late Victorian era.
Ironside 50 | 10,935
28 Mar 2020 #190
hen you see you have lost a debate,

Hmm that is a purely theoretical assumption as I have ever lost to you not even one. You mean the time you have nothing to say and turn on your clown mode and I ignore it? Is that want counts as a victory for you?lol
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
28 Mar 2020 #191
lol

Yes. lol, why didn`t you quote my full words? Here you are, so that you don`t forget about them next time: when you see you have lost a debate, you resort to lies. Apart from being a Kremlin troll, you are a mental and moral loser, told you many times. You can`t lose with dignity.:):)
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Aug 2020 #192
It isn`t a myth that certain complex products were extremely expensive for average Poles. E..g, cars. If one had a car in 1960s, 70s or even 80s, they were considered wealthy.

E.g, average pay in late 1970s was about 5000 PLN. The smallest car, Baby Fiat, cost 87.000 at a state price. However, to buy it from the state one needed a special voucher. Without it, one had to visit an open air market where a Baby Fiat cost 120.000 plus.

Imagine how long one had to save to afford a simple car.

autocentrum.pl/publikacje/historia-motoryzacji/historia-polskiej-motoryzacji-ile-kosztowal-samochod-40-lat-temu/

I drove Baby Fiat in early 1980s. I knew a few books about it by heart. With pro publications, I was able to pull out the engine to repair the clutch.



Zlatko
23 Aug 2020 #193
^wow it was translated in Bulgarian. I liked the 125p bigger brother more though. But Poles themselves could create good original design - Nysa vans are so cool! And they made a nice-looking 3-box sedan out of a 30s/40s design (the Warszawa sedan). That was a huge feat.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Aug 2020 #194
I liked the 125p bigger brother more though

Yes, bigger and more comfortable, whenever I sat on its back seat, I couldn`t cease admiring its softness.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
19 Oct 2020 #195
Time to get back to the proper thread. We have been discussing the life of wealthy non-party Poles in communist Poland in other threads, remember? hahaha

I mentioned that my dad was a brilliant inventor in a chemical industry, while my mum , also an engineer, worked as a teacher of technical subjects. Both worked long hours so I saw them mostly in the evening. I wasn`t too sad because I had our pets and hundreds of books (I learnt to read and write at 5) on shelves all over the house at my disposal. So, due to parents` lack of time, I had nannies as a small child. I remember one - she was a Polish Jewish woman, very strict and gloomy most of the time, I didn`t like her very much, but one day she gave me a plastic figure of a crocodile, all black. I used to play with it often later on, I still have it today in our toy boxes.

Later, when I became a pupil, I needed a chauffer coz my prestigious primary school was located in the very centre of the city while we lived further away. It was a middle aged man whose main asset was his car - old white Warszawa. Today old, but at the time it was a standard car. I liked the man, he was kind to me, always happy and relaxed, like an uncle. Whenever I see vintage Warszawa car today, I recall him.

wealthy non-party Poles

Why were we wealthy? My mum worked over 40 classes per week, at certain times it was close to 50. In summer she ran youth camps - that was an advantage coz she always took us to them. As they were usually located in school facilities, I could use local libraries at will. My first steps while at a new camp were always to the library.

But my mum earned peanuts compared to my father`s earnings. As an inventor, he got a really huge salary plus income from patents. Communist industry was always backward and they needed new technologies all the time. Communists could buy licenses but that required a lot of hard currency. That is why some technologies were stolen in the West by communist agents and spies, not only Polish but also from other commie block countries,. But they weren`t able to steal everything, so inventors were worth their weight in gold coz they allowed communists to save a lot of money - paying a Polish inventor was hundredfold cheaper than buying a foreign license . My father designed apparatuses for chemical factories.

What do you think? Was it OK that he worked as an engineer and earned so much money? Did he support communists and communism in some way with his work? That might be an interesting issue for discussion.

Did he support communists and communism in some way with his work?

My dad was a peaceful agreeable decent chap, he liked people and they liked him, he hated brutality and violence. That is why he rejected communism for its dirty methods, though he didn`t manifest it in public. When the right time came, he joined Solidarity in 1981 like 10 million other Poles. During martial law, his design office went on strike but that was a symbolic one coz such eggheads like him posed zero threat to the regime. A few dozen ZOMO functionaries easily dealt with the strikers - just took them out of the office, no beating or violence was necessary. Afterwards, dad went on so called internal emigration - he wrapped himself in his work even more and became disinterested in the outside world. I couldn`t help him - I was an adult and had my own problems.

tbc
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Oct 2020 #196
Johhny, this one is for you. In another thread you asked me Did your father even have a car when you were being pampered

Firstly, I have to tell you off for being so manly chauvinistic. Why do you mention my dad while my mum also had a license and shared the family car/cars with her husband? Please, stop that discrimination of women, at least here, you can do it in your neighbourhood, America is different.

So, my parents always had a car. In 1960s when I was a baby, they had Italian Fiat 650. Then, in mid 1970s, they had an East German Trabant. Then, they bought a Soviet Lada 1500s. And then they sold it and bought two Polish Fiats 126p for each parent.

Which car did I like best? Lada coz it was huge and comfortable inside and it had a very advanced dashboard with many controls and gadgets, e..g, battery charge metre. . I later bought a few such contriols and installed in my own Fiat.

The only disadvantage I remember was when overloaded during our trips to the seaside or abroad, the springs in the rear suspension were too soft and the chassis rubbed on the wheels on uneven roads - I had an impression the car was falling apart.

Below the cars I mentioned with the colours I remember:


  • Fiat 650

  • Trabant

  • Lada 1500s

  • FIat 126p export version
Cargo pants 2 | 831
30 Oct 2020 #197
East German Trabant

If you still have it lying around I might be interested at a reasonable price to take to States,the ones I looked are way overpriced.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,269
30 Oct 2020 #198
an East German Trabant.

Trabi, a German legend.

Then, they bought a Soviet Lada 1500s

Like Polski Fiat 125P, it was manufactured on an Italian license. Similar models, but Polski Fiat looked nicer to me.

Speaking of commie times in Central Europe, has anyone seen the German comedy film "Good-bye Lenin"? Excellent.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
31 Oct 2020 #199
If you still have it lying around

hahaha after nearly 50 years??

but Polski Fiat looked nicer to me.

But its quality in 1980s was tragic, while those Soviet Ladas were appreciated for durability. Gniotsa niełamiotsa.

German comedy film "Good-bye Lenin"?

Nope. The only German comedy I watched was the East German one made in communist times about an ordinary guy who purchases a second hand Czajka limousine and has to deal with unexpected reactions from people around.
mafketis 24 | 9,352
31 Oct 2020 #200
the German comedy film "Good-bye Lenin"

I don't know if I'd call it a 'comedy'.... it's pretty somber in places (very good though).

One of the best films on what happened in former communist countries after 1989 is the Romanian movie 'Fost sau n-a-fost' (was it or wasn't it?) confusingly called '12:08 na wschód od Bukaresztu' in Polish.

The first half is a tv producer in a small dreary town trying to set up a live call in show on the anniversary of the Romanian revolution of 1989 and most of the second half shows the broadcast in real time... devastating tragic and funny at the same time.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Nov 2020 #201
when overloaded during our trips to the seaside or abroad,

Now it is time to talk about trips. Parents knew about heavy pollution in Polish cities - industrialisation and coal burning contributed to it the most - that is why they did their best to take us out of the city as often as possible. Se, we went either on short weekend trips to the mountains or longer ones to the seaside. My parents` favourite spots were Zakopane in the south and Kołobrzeg on the coast. We also traveled to other resorts, of course.

When it was summer holiday and my mum didn`t run a youth camp, we usually spent a whole month at our destination. Of course, as a boy I prefered the seaside coz I learnt to swim quite early and it was my fav exercise. I didn`t like the mountains coz parents were crazy about hiking and my sister and me were virtually forced to cover long distances from one peak to another - I hated it! It was so fekking boring and tiring and the flies were relentless.

On our longer trips we first stayed in a tent, then, when conditions in Polish campsites improved, in a cabin. On short trips the accommodation was usually a room in a private house rented to tourists.

The only important geographical region in Poland I didn`t visit in childhood was Mazurian Lakes - I went there for the first time when I was a uni student. But my father went several times every year with his workmates - they belonged to a yachting club and used to sail a lot. It was my dad`s little obsession. I asked why he didn`t take us with him - he claimed it was too dangerous and boring and we wouldn`t enjoy it. But I think he simply wanted to take a break, enjoy the company of his mates, have some manly fun, probably with drinking or even other kinds of diversion that males go for when their wives are absent. . hahaha







Chemikiem 7 | 2,496
1 Nov 2020 #202
Was it OK that he worked as an engineer and earned so much money

Those were difficult times when many went without. He was obviously intelligent and well educated with a family to support. I don't blame him for doing the best for his family, but I wonder if it made him feel uncomfortable knowing that many Poles were living under less favourable circumstances. Family friends, for example, were probably not doing as well as your family.

Did he support communists and communism in some way with his work?

I suppose it could be argued that he did, albeit indirectly, by saving the regime a fortune in obtaining foreign licences. I think other equally intelligent people with a family to support would probably do the same though. He did what he thought was right.

Which car did I like best?

I prefer the Trabant to the Lada :) Reminds me of a Ford Anglia.

I hated it! It was so fekking boring and tiring and the flies were relentless.

Let me guess, you made your own kids suffer in exactly the same way ;)
Cargo pants 2 | 831
2 Nov 2020 #203
hahaha after nearly 50 years??

I have a 1976 Maluch so its over 46 years.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
2 Nov 2020 #204
Yes, but you haven`t kept it all the time from 1970s, have you?

Let me guess, you made your own kids suffer in exactly the same way ;)

Yes, because heritage always passes from father to son.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,269
2 Nov 2020 #205
I have a 1976 Maluch so its over 46 years.

My God! Is it still in motion?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
2 Nov 2020 #206
Trabant was a POS... Wartburg was much better imo.

The best cars you could have in the PRL at least in the 80s were Fiat Mirafiori (very rare and super expensive), a diesel Mercedes, VW Golf/Jetta, BMW 3, and Polonez. If you had any of those you were ballin' - probably were a cinkciarz, corrupt PRL official, smuggler, gangster, and/or had people sending you USD's.
jon357 66 | 16,965
2 Nov 2020 #207
Polonez

Those used to be imported to the UK back in the 80s as a cheap alternative. The importer used to replace some of the engine parts with better ones and send the original ones back to Warsaw.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
2 Nov 2020 #208
Yup. That and the Yugo as far as I know were the only Eastern Bloc cars exported to western markets. Some FIATS ended up in Egypt and other random places though
jon357 66 | 16,965
2 Nov 2020 #209
That and the Yugo

There were Lada and Skoda as well, both of them much more popular than Polski-Fiat which only really became visible when the FSO Polonez came out..

Wartburg Knights went on sale in the UK back in the 60s however they never took off and I don't remember ever seeing any.

We usd to have a joke:
Q. How do you double the value of a Skoda?
A. Fill the petrol tank.
mafketis 24 | 9,352
2 Nov 2020 #210
I always wondered why there weren't more jokes about the name... until I realized most Poles don't see/notice the hachek on top of the s (š) and so didn't make the connection of škoda = szkoda

Apparently the name comes from the founder (more or less) of the company - I don't know if Czechs make the connection between the name and škoda (which exists in Czech with the same meaning as szkoda though I don't know how common it is).


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