Heritage of partitions still present in Poland

@Ironside

No it is not. There was much more freedom there than in other 2 partitions. Maybe check first before attacking people.

Sounds good to me...

Not only thanks to Prussians.


Yes, the lands of Greater Poland had already been well developed before partitions. Prussians kept it and continued the development.

One can read about it in the book Poland From Partitions to EU Accession: A Modern Economic History, 1772-2004 available online at books.google.pl/ page 177.


Yes, people from Poznań region of Greater Poland are considered hard working, dutiful, law abiding, diligent, well-organised. It would require a serious research to find out to what extent the Prussian partition contributed to it.

Maybe they had been Germans all the time! :)

I stay by my opinion...folks in these lands have been so heavily mixed over the centuries we are the same. Scratch a German and you find a Pole and vice versa!

*bows out*

several years ago I edited an academic article that suggested that the wielkopolska region's higher level of development pre-dated the partitions (there was some prussian influence too, but it wasn't the decisive factor) at present distinct wielkopolska values are more limited to the city of Poznan (as the commies disliked said values and did what they could to dilute them...)

They are also very patriotic because they were in a constant political, cultural and economical struggle agains a very tricky, and very powerful at that time, enemy. And yet, they have prevailed.

Roman Dmowski has prased Poles from Greater Poland and his nationalist National-Democratic party had very strong outposts in this region.

Clearly in relation to diet and habits- sauerkraut, sausages, pork chops....beer...football :-)

Yes, e.g., they won the 1919 Rising, probably the only one in Polish history. .


The first anticommunist mass protest of workers in Poland after 2 WW took place in Poznań in 1956.

A legend says that during rallies and demos, thousands of protesters gathered in streets but apart from shouting We want bread/ freedom! they also admonished each other: Don`t tread on the grass!

Not really. Silesian Uprisings against Germany were also succesful.

I would expect more from you since you are a teacher.

No, I remembered about them but I meant there was only one fully successful - Greater Poland Rising of 1919. 3rd Silesian Rising was only partly successful because insurgents didn`t achieve all their aims. That is why I said: probably. :)


As a teacher, I know a lot, but for God`s sake, I am not an omnibus, if you know what it means. :) Besides, I am not a teacher of History, though it is my fav hobby. :)

Back to topic.

All partitions powers erected various structures in their zones, many of which are put to a good use today. See pics below

Russians built Orthodox churches. There were about a dozen of them in Warsaw, but only two survived.
E.g., en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John_Climacus%27s_Orthodox_Church,_Warsaw

Germans built the Imperial Castle in Poznań en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Castle,_Pozna%C5%84

Austrians built Krakow Fortress, a complex system of defensive fortifications in and around Krakow, e.g, around Wawel Castle or Kosciuszko Mound.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Fortress

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And your point is?
Whilst I think this thread is interesting I am a bit concerned about your motives for starting it.

My motives are the meanest, the nastiest, the most horrenduous of all! If I told you the truth, you would go crazy and have to be taken to the lunatic asylum right away. That is why I will keep silent about them - I don`t want us to lose you from here - they would certainly not allow you to have an access to the Net in the facility.

That is why don`t ask questions I can`t answer - either enjoy the thread and contribute to it, or not.

Not the sort of response I would expect from a man who teaches children for a living.
Idiotic.

Not only for a living - I do it also as my hobby. Second after history. :):)
Now, will you continue asking difficult questions or contribute sth useful to the thread? :):) E..g, have you ever been to Poland? If you have, did you see any structures built by partition powers? What were they? How are they used today? Tell us their stories.


I sometimes try to adjust to my interlocutors. :) What is wrong with it? After such adjustment, people feel they have more in common with each other and then they are happier. I wanted to make you happy.

I have been to Poland countless times.
Never lived or worked there, but besides holidays, spent long periods with family all over the country.
Western Poland is more affluent than Eastern Poland.
But I think large parts of Southern Poland is very affluent too.
I think you are wrong to equate affluence and perhaps insinuate educational levels with how people vote.
They tried to do that in The UK about the Brexit vote and it has backfired big time.
I think that how people vote goes much deeper than affluence and education.

That is why I commented on my own words in this way:

Just a little theory which doesn`t need to be true.


Yes, when I suggested it, I wanted to start a discussion on those voting patterns, hoping someone might enlighten us. Some posters have already tried. What about you? . Any idea?

Greater Poland?

Nonsense. Greater Poland is fictional term, falsely invented in situation when 1/3 of Europe represent natural Poland. Plus, if we are flexible, we easily see that actually complete Europe (and not only Europe) could use name of Poland instead of name of Europe.

The voting patterns are most likely connected more with the relative distance to Germany or having Germany as a conversational topic more often. A person in Poznań will be more (overall) interested/concerned about EU/Germany then a person in podlasie. Having also more information cause of interest.

So I think the geographical distance has the most to say. Otherwise parties associated with ND would be more relevant in mid/western Poland cause of partitions and ww2.

With the communists blocking debate and fighting political opponents, it created a new political reality one has to keep in touch with. No matter the repression, occupation or war. People know that a German in today's Germany is very different in a democratical setting then in third reich

In Poland, it's pretty much how it is. City/educated vs rural/uneducated is seen time and time again, and in the local elections, it was the reason why PiS were trounced in mayoral elections in cities and large towns, yet why they did well in provincial elections. It's not really about geography anymore, because PiS lost in places considered to be their heartlands, like Biała Podlaska, yet they still managed to win in Lower Silesia with the help of the corrupt "independents".

I agree. It is more complicated and needs more research.

More statistics

Access to a bathroom and public water system also reflects partitions. Paradoxically, the poorest ex Austrian partition has caught up a bit and now it seems the ex Russian partition is the most backward.

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  Public water supply system
  
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  Bathrooms connected to the sewage system
  

I suppose as for today also property prices show which part of Poland is affluent and in demand.

Pawian - wow. Just wow. I've never seen those two graphics before, but it certainly explains a lot.

Thanks but it isn`t such a big deal, really. After I googled those maps showing election patterns, new ones have come up too.


That`s interesting. I thought that in the times of global village such distances of 300-400 kilometres don`t matter any longer and that villagers from Podlasie go to seasonal work in Germany as often as villagers from Poznań region.

Oh, but it is a big deal. I never realised that they were so underdeveloped there, but again, I rarely go east of Warsaw/Katowice. I've been to the Czech Republic more than I've been east of the Wisła/San...

Partitions had some impact on the development of regions of Poland but there are also other factors which contributed to it.

A rural - because that doesn't apply to big cities - area of Eastern Poland is in fact much poorer than those in Central and Western Poland. The decades of neglect during communist era and "central planning" focused on heavy industry which favored regions rich in coal, metals and other minerals has also contributed to it.

Right now the unemployment rate in Poland is very low. That said the regions with traditionally highest employment rate in the past 30- years were Mazury and also West Pomerania (former german partition and a part of Germany until after WWII) and Podkarpacie (ex Austrian partition).

The most developed, and the richest, region in Poland is metropolis of Warsaw (ex Russian partition). Some may point out that it is a capital, so this is normal.

Yet it is not an universal rule since Berlin is one of the poorest cities in Germany. Same goes to Rome which is much poorer than Milan or Torino which lies in North Italy.

Those facts would break a simple narrative so maybe that's why it was ommited in this discussion ;-)

You suggest it was omitted on purpose? :) No need to be so suspicious and sniff conspiracy theories, nobody omitted anything, we were just waiting for such an explanation as yours:


Yes, it is a plausible one.


Yes, it is true. In the Austrian zone Poles could freely speak Polish, make careers in Austro-Hungarian administration (two Polish Prime Ministers for Austro-Hungary!) , develop Polish schools and universities etc. Various Polish revolutionaries from the Russian or Prussian partition zones took refuge in Krakow and they were fully safe because Austrians closed an eye. Later, Józef Piłsudski and his soldiers marched out from Krakow in 1914 to liberate the rest of Poland.

That is why modern inhabitants of ex Austrian partition zone claim it wasn`t so bad after all. It isn`t boasting or being proud, because the partition was foreign occupation after all, but they believe their ancestors lived in the best partition of all as they enjoyed the greatest freedom.

Those legends of the most tolerant partition surface from time to time. E..g, Austrian Consulate or Austrian Forum of Culture in Krakow regularly hold various events reminding the past ties between Krakow and Austria, of course those positive ones only. :):)

The Austro-Hungarian Emperor, Franz Joseph I, was liked in Galicia partition zone. When he came there for an official visit in 1880, Poles welcomed him enthusiastically. The Emperor trusted Poles and always demanded they were included in the Austro- Hungarian government.

Today you can still see his countenance in various places, e.g. on mineral water bottles. Can you imagine a Russian tsar`s or Bismarck`s faces on a bar of chocolate in Warsaw or Poznań? :):):)

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I don't know if it still now but I remember that there was 'open day' in Austrian Embassy in Krakow. It was open for public to get inside, walk through...There were also some stalls promoting Austria.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy but a simple intellectual laziness :-)


Yes, it is mostly an emotional act. Most people are much more emotional that they would care to admit. And very often a rationalization is done after an emotional act/decision.That's just how human brains are wired. Care salesmen undestand that very well ;-)