The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 121

Churchill and Poland


Paulina 9 | 1,448
12 Feb 2013 #91
Don't you think you hav been had, the Communists hav firmly indoctrinated you Poles.

No, I don't think so. The Polish government-in-exile (in London) was defamed and ridiculed as cowards, Poles who fought on the side of the Western Allies were considered traitors or whatever by the communist propaganda. Yet now we treat those soldiers with great esteem. Also, as pawian wrote:

Apart from that, Churchill`s role in defeating Nazis was important and even communists admitted it.

Do you understand what pawian wrote?

It must take great deal of effort to think Churchill as an enemy of Poland.

Poles don't think of Churchill as an enemy of Poland. Just as he wasn't an enemy of France.
OP citizen67 6 | 191
12 Feb 2013 #92
It's also true that the second front was deliberately delayed

Apart from hide on their island till the Russians won the war for them*

Its clear that Churchill sold Poland out but as I said earlier

Barney 15 | 1,472
12 Feb 2013 #93
What point are you trying to make?
Paulina 9 | 1,448
12 Feb 2013 #94
Of all the people you've quoted I know of only one Pole living in Poland and it's pawian.
Smurf - I don't think he's even Polish.
MarcinD lives in San Diego, California, USA.
Legend lives in Mississauga, Canada.
Marek11111 lives in Stanwood, Washington, USA.
Do you see any pattern here?
Or maybe they teach communist propaganda in Northern America? lol
Is Barney Polish?
Barney 15 | 1,472
12 Feb 2013 #95
Is Barney Polish?

No and I dont live in Poland
OP citizen67 6 | 191
12 Feb 2013 #96
No, I don't think so. The Polish government-in-exile (in London) was defamed and ridiculed as cowards

No they weren't. Poles wer, up and until recently, held in high esteem, especially these chaps, I hav NEVER ever heard any negativ thing said, or implied, about the Polish soldiers of WWII. We had the 303 squadron clip in The Battle of Britain film, I think they wer in Italy and took a large part in a major battle I hav never heard of jokes about Poles, especially dating from those days.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
12 Feb 2013 #97
Citizen67, read comments more carefully, please. I wrote they were defamed and ridiculed as cowards by the communist propaganda in communist Poland. And they are still seen as such by some Russians.

I've seen "The Battle of Britain" and I was reminded of this film by two English guys who came to Poland and were invited by my mum to a family dinner. They also mentioned general Sosabowski in "A Bridge Too Far". They've brought it up on their own which was nice and we appreciated it :) I can assure you that there was no crying, whining, blaming, denial or wimpish behaviour on our part towards them at that dinner :)

No and I dont live in Poland

Thank you, Barney, for the info. You see, citizen67? Barney isn't Polish.
Do you think he was brainwashed by the communists?
OP citizen67 6 | 191
12 Feb 2013 #98
Do you think he was brainwashed by the communists?

Well, you've been brainwashed by someone.
jasondmzk
12 Feb 2013 #99
You guys are being taken on a 113 post ride by a guy who hasn't the slightest idea what he's talking about. He's contrary for the sake of the argument, not for principle. He doesn't know anything about the War that he didn't catch on the History Channel between episodes of Hillbilly Handfishin. He hasn't read Churchill, studied Churchill, or even so much as watched a horse race at Churchill Downs. He wants attention, and he's willing to sell any historical bauble that gleams in these forum-goer's minds to get that attention. He spent SIX DAYS, and posts of 1000 words trying to rationalize the "sick feeling in [his] stomach" he got whenever he witnessed people of different races kissing. He will do anything for the spotlight, and you are feeding it to him without question. Enough, already.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 167
15 Nov 2019 #100
Merged:

Churchill's Betrayal of Poland



youtu.be/46Q6trVZA2Q

The Sikorski Case
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
15 Nov 2019 #101
The film seems to be a German production (NDR) of 2011.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
15 Nov 2019 #102
You think so?

Look at the first still of the map...The wording "German Reich" is surely not what would be used in a german production...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
15 Nov 2019 #103
So it may be a kind of an international production, but German participation seems to be the most significant.

At the end of the film stands: "A production by LOOKS Film & TV GmbH" and then "In coproduction with NDR" [NDR = Norddeutscher Rundfunk].
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
15 Nov 2019 #104
So it may be a kind of an international production, but German participation seems to be the most significant

Agreed.
We all know that Britain betrayed Poland in the end.
It was an impossible dilemma.
But what would anyone else do in in Churchill's shoes?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
16 Nov 2019 #105
The UK was skint, it had just gone through another war at tremendous personal sacrifice, and yet Churchill was still willing to go for Moscow.

What else could you expect from him and the UK as a whole? I think the UK being willing to go to war over Poland was enough of a sacrifice, especially when you consider how much the UK lost because of it.

The wording "German Reich"

Isn't it factually correct for that time period? We say Nazi Germany today, but wasn't it officially the German Reich?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
16 Nov 2019 #106
Not in a german production...that's English! :)

Here a few german names:

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS-Staat
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
16 Nov 2019 #107
Not in a german production...that's English! :)

It is a German production which uses the English language rather than German. So 'Deutsches Reich' becomes 'German Reich'.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
16 Nov 2019 #108
Do you have a link? Because that sounds unusual...why should a german production use english naming?
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 167
16 Nov 2019 #109
I think the UK being willing to go to war over Poland

Well, only the UK didn't go to war over Poland, it never had any plan to liberate Poland at all, this was the real reason why the UK went to war:

ia803008.us.archive.org/13/items/leesearnoldthejewishwarofsurvival1947/leese%2C%20arnold%20-%20the%20jewish%20war%20of%20survival%20%281947%29.pdf

Chapter I of this book is about Poland.

1

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Leese

This is a written account by a Arnold Leese a true British patriot who among the "official" lies and deceptions tried to reveal the truth to the British people.

He was unlawfully imprisoned and held without charge for the duration of WWII along with many other British patriots under the undemocratic and dictatorial regulation 18B.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
16 Nov 2019 #110
Look, German producers have signed the film at the end of it (see above). If "GmbH" is not German, then what it is? If NDR is not German, then what it is?

LOOKS Film & TV GmbH have their own website and at their entry in the Wiki they tell you that the company is "eine deutsche Filmproduktionsfirma. Sie entwickelt, produziert und vertreibt Dokumentarfilme, Spielfilme sowie Serien für VoD, Kino und Fernsehen".

If a film is aimed at an international audience, it may well use English-language maps rather than German-language (or Polish-language for that matter) ones in the same way as they use the English-speaking voice of the narrator. Here below is the link to their website. On the website there is shown the film in question - under the title: CHURCHILLS VERRAT AN POLEN DER MYSTERIÖSE TOD DES GENERAL SIKORSKI.

looks.film/de/churchills-verrat-polen

Ist jetzt alles klar, BB?
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 167
16 Nov 2019 #111
archive.org/details/DrWilliamL.PierceWhatStartedWorldWarTwo

dr. William L. Pierce - What Started World War Two

Churchill and Roosevelt did everything they could to suppress the truth to come out about the Katyn Massacre in order to not offend their "gallant" Soviet ally. Władysław Sikorski had incriminating evidence he was determined to publish.

archive.org/details/Ww2MassacreAtKatyn

WW2 Massacre at Katyn
Ironside 49 | 10,375
16 Nov 2019 #112
I think the UK being willing to go to war over Poland was enough of a sacrifice,

Eh? It is a news to me. What are you talking about?

et Churchill was still willing to go for Moscow.

Above sentence imply that Churchill was willing to go t o war with Soviets over Poland. Don't know about it.
Sure Brits were in a difficult situation IF they wanted to help Poland regain their independence. The issue here is - was that what they really wanted and how much they were willing to stake on that?

From what I know it was a very low item on their priority list. What makes it worst they were hiding a lot from and lying to about stuff to their Polish allies. If they make it clear to the Polish gov in exile as late/early as 1943 where they stand it would make a lot of difference. No wonder Polish people there at the time were feeling betrayed. It is entirely justified as the uk didn't even try to put some pressures on Stalin and if need to be on Roosevelt. Yes, sure pragmatism is good but of you fold before you even do something it is called something else.
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
16 Nov 2019 #113
Above sentence imply that Churchill was willing to go t o war with Soviets over Poland

No Iron, you misunderstood Delph.
Churchill went to Moscow to help alleviate the plight of The Poles.
Not to fight them.

It is entirely justified as the uk didn't even try to put some pressures on Stalin

What pressures could Britain have realistically put on Stalin after the war?
I understand your fierce patriotism my friend, but you need to get real.
jon357 63 | 15,066
16 Nov 2019 #114
Arnold Leese a true British patriot

He was a nazi sympathiser.

But what would anyone else do in in Churchill's shoes?

I read recently that Churchill wanted to do something, however the military advised him that it was impossible to take on the Soviet Union and win.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
17 Nov 2019 #115
No Iron, you misunderstood Delph.

Yes, on purpose. He claims that Britain went o war with Germany in 1939 for the sake of Poland. A claim that I find laughable.

Britain have realistically put on Stalin after the war?

Hmm it could blow a raspberry on them. I'm not talking about times after the war, it wasn't doable without USA full support. I meant in 1942- 43.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
17 Nov 2019 #116
I read recently that Churchill wanted to do something, however the military advised him that it was impossible.

The idea was to use the German Army and go for Moscow, but the numbers simply weren't there.

All historical evidence shows that both the Americans and Soviets were satisfied with the post-war division of Europe into two blocs, and Britain was nothing but a mere by-stander.

What pressures could Britain have realistically put on Stalin after the war?

None. The only pressure could have come from the Americans telling the Soviets to either leave or get nuked.
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
17 Nov 2019 #117
Spot on.
As a Polish descendent I feel the betrayal Poles felt.
But as a logical observer, I can also see that The British could do no more.
It is one of those situations in history that you just have to shrug your shoulders.
What else could have been done?
Nothing.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
17 Nov 2019 #118
Inform your ally that there is nothing that can or will be done to help it. The least that can be done.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 167
18 Dec 2019 #119
He was a nazi sympathiser.

Can you find a single sentence or a paragraph in the book of Arnold Leese and at least try to, by using arguments other than labeling people as a "Nazi", prove that it is untrue?

archive.org/details/johnamerypatriot

Who are the real Tratiors? A rare interview by John Amery a son of a cabinet member of Winston Churchill who defected to Germany after Britain allied itself with the Soviet Union and went to fight against Stalin and the Communists. He talks about the betrayal of Poland.

Who Was John Amery?

youtu.be/h1056IO6oyM
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
18 Dec 2019 #120
Who Was John Amery?

He was a Fascist just like Leese.


Home / History / Churchill and Poland
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.