Why didn't Britain declare war on USSR for invading Poland in 1939?

I bet she knew exactly what that pos was doing.

You mean you WANT to believe.

I don't believe it. I know it. Does your wife know what you do for a living? Mine, too.

So then you DO believe Ethel was innocent?

Doesn't everyone?

Well, Martin Sobel (name might be wrong)accused along with the Rosenbergs, didn't think she was innocent.

Not quite:

"Coupled with some of that grand jury testimony, Mr. Sobell's admission bolsters what has become a widely held view among scholars: that Mr. Rosenberg was, indeed, guilty of spying, but that his wife was at most a bit player in the conspiracy and may have been framed by complicit prosecutors."

nytimes.com/2008/09/12/nyregion/12spy.html

It's all a long leap away from the events in Europe at the start of WW2. How did this thread get on to 1950s spy scandals?

I should've searched before piping off.

Morton Sobell. According to the articles below Sobell implicated Ethel knowing what was going on, but says her involvement was exaggerated.

washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/morton-sobell-convicted-in-rosenberg-atomic-bomb-spy-trial-dies-at-101/2019/01/30/4ae88196-24d7-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html

nytimes.com/2008/09/12/nyregion/12spy.html

So,


Agreed.


Uhhhh...because it's PF.

Didn't Greenglass turn Ethel in?

The only debate today can be if the death penalty was too much, not her guilt. Many US presidents had a chance to exonerate the bit*ch and didn't.

The US had a lot more evidence than it needed to convict this Jewish slime. It was not presented for security reasons since the trial was public.

The death penalty is the only appropriate penalty for domestic spies. We should practice it the way others do. Pollard, another Jewish pos traitor, should have been executed a long time ago. If at least he spied for Isreal out of the conviction that he was doing the right thing... But that is not what Jews do. Quoting:

Prosecutors said while serving as a Navy analyst in the mid-1980s and handling classified material, Pollard made contact with an Israeli intelligence agent in New York and began funneling suitcases full of U.S. secrets to Israel in exchange for gifts and tens of thousands of dollars.

I rest my case. Sure, Ethel didn't spy...Right...

Jews don't have a monopoly on treason. Often though, they have been Communist rabble-rousers, as the Communist Utopia always
seemed somehow attractive to them....until of course they started becoming "successful"LOL
Even more of a Red-hater than the late Jack Valenti, was none other than the very identifiably Jewish Jack Warner!!

Now, to get an answer to this question, you need to find a medium who would enable you to discuss it with pre-war politicians` ghosts. Get a medium, a strong table, a few dozen sheets of paper and try to arrange a meeting during which you will learn all their motives.

• 
  The medium from the Others
  

...but they do on duplicity no other group can match. Isreal, our dear ally, is known to be selling our stuff to the Chinese, spying on the US, and causing damage to the USS Liberty.


That was cute. Do you want me to list the names of these rabble-rousers in the USSR and what they doing while rabble-rousing?

Those who didn't understand capitalism, became and remained, Communists! The Aaron Feuersteins of the world, the JEWISH real-life George Bailey, was one in a million.

@ Pawian

😆 You pretty much nailed it.


Then, to be fair, you'll need to list the Jews who have worked to advance liberty, democracy, capitalism, etc.

The broad brush approach is intellectually grotesque. Communism and fascism was a collective effort that ran across all ethnicities. As the fight against those evils ran across all ethnicities.

Nope. In all leftist cases, one group dominates. It's the Jews. Fascism was a counter-reaction to them.


Every group has its outliers and exceptions. Quoting those to skew the stats is dishonest.

As are over generalizations. Not only are they dishonest, but stultifying perpetuations of simplistic thinking and catalysts of perpetual discord.

Jewish people have plenty to be criticized for, but so does every other group of people. Not any group of people or individual person is above reproach. Problem is when we assign the negative aspects as the only defining aspect to each group. A scapegoat is always much easier to deal with, than the actual complexity of a problem.

Anyhow, Pawian, is on to something regarding answering the question posed by the OP.

Thank you, dear Staff!!! You are so quick. My jaw always drops low down when I see your immediate reaction. :):):)

An anti Soviet song composed by patriotic Poles/Polesses during WW2. It mentions Katyn Massacre.



Fight the Bolshevik!!!

Fight the Bolshevik in every form,
because he is your greatest enemy today.
After all, he paved the network of his countless roads with the bones of your brothers.

It was he who drove your children to Siberia,
and composed a joyful song from their groans.
It is he who today oppresses our fathers,
and makes them bear the yoke of communism.

It was he who, in the dark forest of Katyn,
suddenly plunged a sharp knife into the Polish chest,
murdering there the best Polish sons
like a vile thug, a vile traitor, a coward.

It is he who worships Stalin like a deity,
not sparing your priests severe torments.
It is he who turned churches into cinemas
and tramples on the cross, worshiping the red star.

tbc

The remaining stanzas of that amasing anti communist song above
It is he who forces us not to believe in God
by overwhelming us with the power of red rags,
so that the humanity in your heart would extinguish,
so that you would not know what a brother means.

After all, he stole your property
and seeps the blood of your heart from our wounds.
After all, he values ​​the dog more than you
because you are a Pole - therefore an enemy and a Polish lord.

It is he who, preaching slogans of brotherhood,
pushes the flower of our youth to prisons.
So that humanity in your heart would fade,
so that you would not know what a brother means.

So, throw the veil from your eyes, dear brother.
Let the golden horn of the forefathers thunder again.
Beat the Bolshevik in every form,
because he is your greatest enemy today.

@Crnogorac3

I hate this finger-pointing, resentful nonsense. Poles love to bang on about 'gifting Poland to Stalin' at Yalta but never actually have any suggestions about what Britain was supposed to do better.

So, Britain was supposed to force the Soviets to leave poor little Poland alone, is that right? How, exactly? Do you not think perhaps the USA - bigger, more powerful, less ruined by the wars - had a greater responsibility and ability to help Poland here?

After leaving WW2 completely battered after many years of fighting and holding out alone in Europe, perhaps Britain was supposed to start WW3 with Russia straight away, just to prevent poor Poland from being under Russian influence for a few decades? I am sure the Tommies fighting the war in Europe would have loved that, ditto the people back home.

So, please tell me: what would be the alternative to this 'betrayal'? Sending the exhausted British army off to Moscow? Churchill somehow managing to be more persuasive to Stalin than the USA - richest and most powerful country in the world - could have been?

Polish nationalism really makes people come out with some total b*llocks, doesn't it? Including absolutely shameful slurs about your ally, who joined your war first, to help you when you are invaded. Sorry but WW2 wasn't solely "the poor little Poland story" and we don't all have an overriding imperative to protect you and your interests at all costs, including possibly starting WW3 with the USSR. We joined your war on your side and that is more than enough. Stop with all the crap.

It really doesnt does it? Re 39 and the fake paper war. After the promises made.

Do you feel wronged? lol!
Good, now you can feel just a little bit how generations of Poles felt.

@amiga500

"Fake paper war"? Sod off, there was nothing fake about the war my grandparents fought in. Maybe we didn't / weren't able to act quickly enough for your tastes but then Poles have always been impatient and demanding ;)

I would like never to hear Poles use the phrases "phoney war" or "betrayal at Yalta" ever again. It's not enough that we have to listen to them insulting every aspect of our nation and culture on the internet (see any comments section of any YouTube video or Instagram post) all the time but we also have to listen to them insulting our grandparents' and nation's efforts in the war we joined because they were invaded? A war plenty of others in Europe, btw, were happy to either sit out or join on the enemy's side.

Maybe save your resentment for the Spanish, because as we all know they were a great lot of help to you. Or maybe the Italians and Japanese, because we all know what amazing allies they were.

Still waiting to hear the proposals for what Britain was supposed to do instead of "gifting Poland to Stalin", btw. We were really meant to march eastward straight after WW2 and start another one, just for you?

Nobody cares, take your complaints and your grandparents and show them to somebody who gives a F!
By the way, showing off with your laughable casualties to a country that lost so many people during that war could be seen as a mockery.

@Ironside
Nobody cares about your little victim complex and your martyrology either. A country stupid enough, btw, to get its capital city levelled in a laughable doomed insurgency should probably keep its mouth shut in terms of what others "should have done".

So what? If you are in Poland, you will listen to it whether you like it or not. As far as I know, there are no curses about Polish casualties and contribution during WWII in any other country. You have a Holocaust course instead, so you can be a little obedient puppy for the big state of Israel.
---

Whatever you want to say about Poland, we always pay our bills. So as long as the bill is paid, you can tell your mama to keep her mouth shut.

@Ironside
The "big state of Israel" arguably only exists because your neighbor decided to annihilate the Jewish race and the Poles and other Eastern Europeans drove the remaining Jews out. Must have been great for them to escape the camps, the few that could, to come home and find that some Pole has stolen it along with all their possessions. If the world has a problem with Israel, you should know that it's because of your region.

Re. Bills: the UK was still paying off its war debt to the USA - a war it joined because you were invaded - in 2006. Billions of dollars. That was for you. A thank you would be nice.

See, you have been well trained. How fast you jump to its defense is the world record. Shifting the blame onto others and playing the victim is a part of the curriculum. Well done.
A moral relativism is finely-honed, too. Somebody alleged stealing something 100 years ago, versus genocide and ethnic cleansing happening right now. Excellent!
---

For us? You must be mistaken, our bills are paid by us. Their bills have nothing to do with us.

But there was such a plan, wasn't there? Operation Inconceivable, or something like that. Fair play to Churchill for even making such plans. Without American willingness to help they couldn't have been realised, we understand that.


Look... every country has its peasant (and I don't mean farmers - the salt of the earth - but mental and moral peasants). Who do you think left Poland for the UK? Our elites who did well in Poland, had great education, great jobs and brilliant future ahead of them? Think again. Those were by and large peasants, and people who think otherwise can read the YT comments section, as you very rightly point out.

As for the resentment that some Poles might have felt towards Great Britain, there's more to it than just disappointment regarding the phoney war in the West in 1939 (and it applies more to the French--they had the largest land army in Europe back then, not the Brits). In my circles people from previous generations used to talk more about the way our generals were treated in the UK after the war, it's just a long story of grievances and bitterness (justified or not).

After the war, around 120-130 Polish generals found themselves in exile, mostly in Britain. These included commanders from the September Campaign, the Anders Army, and the Polish Armed Forces in the West. They could not return to Poland, which had fallen under Soviet control (also, because they had their citizenship revoked by the communist government in Warsaw). Their wartime efforts were not officially recognized by the British government - there was little support for Polish officers in general, financial or institutional. Generals were often forced to take low-paid or manual labour jobs to survive - General Stanisław Sosabowski (commander of the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade) worked as a warehouseman, Gen. Tadeusz Bór-Komorowski - former commander of the Home Army was an upholsterer in London. Others became janitors, factory workers, or caretakers etc. You could say "hey, each to their own - you've got to crack on" and you would be right, but those officers very often came from noble families, owned real estate confiscated by the communists, and never had to do a day of work in their lives. You can imagine the resentment caused by the forced poverty coupled with the sense of political betrayal (justified or not).

But that's all only really relevant to the 20th century. I think you may be getting a wrong impression that it matters to people in modern Poland. It doesn't.

As for your remarks about the imprudence of the Warsaw Uprising, attitude of a part of civilian population to the surviving Jews, and the eternal victim complex, there is some truth to it. All these things haven't been properly processed within Polish collective memory, and I would be the last person to deny that. The problem with national collective attitudes is that it takes bloody ages for them to change. Look at Hungarians - they are still sore about the Treaty of Trianon in 1920! Not to mention Poles and partitions (of which we ourselves are largely to blame).

But hey - if you want to be a Don Quixote battling the windmills of historical burdens, ancient grievances and sore arses, I'm not going to stop you. I shall, instead, observe your efforts with reasonable benevolence and mild amusement. Good luck! :)

Do you feel you are not contributing enough? Why would you type so many words? Who is going to read it?