Who is going to read it?
People with attention spans that weren't destroyed by social media.
Why didn't Britain declare war on USSR for invading Poland in 1939?
People with attention spans that weren't destroyed by social media.
WarSore
22 Jun 2025 #62
@Torq
This is probably the first time I have encountered this level of reason and civility from a Pole when it comes to this topic. Usually it doesn't get far above "YOU BETRAY US, ANGOL!!"
Yes, well pointed out - Churchill DID come up with plans to attack Russia, and as far as I know it was the USA that didn't want any part of it - they were more concerned about the Pacific theatre, maybe. But still, we seem to get the lion's share of the blame for 'betrayal'. We are Poland's favourite punching bag after Russia, Germany and Ukraine. To the extent that this joker just said our war casualties - a war we joined when Poland was invaded - were 'laughable'.
@ironside
"For you" as in "incurred after joining your war". Once again (like WW1), a continental European conflict that we didn't start but were expected to help finish.
Btw when a Pole, of all people, is telling me I'm "playing the victim", that's when I know I've passed to the other side of the looking glass.
Nobody, least of all me, is suggesting what is happening now in Gaza (and Iran) is due to what Germans and Poles did to the Jewish population. But in terms of causality, creating a hostile environment that drove them to create their own 'safehaven state' has certainly played a role in the creation of the state of Israel.
This is probably the first time I have encountered this level of reason and civility from a Pole when it comes to this topic. Usually it doesn't get far above "YOU BETRAY US, ANGOL!!"
Yes, well pointed out - Churchill DID come up with plans to attack Russia, and as far as I know it was the USA that didn't want any part of it - they were more concerned about the Pacific theatre, maybe. But still, we seem to get the lion's share of the blame for 'betrayal'. We are Poland's favourite punching bag after Russia, Germany and Ukraine. To the extent that this joker just said our war casualties - a war we joined when Poland was invaded - were 'laughable'.
@ironside
"For you" as in "incurred after joining your war". Once again (like WW1), a continental European conflict that we didn't start but were expected to help finish.
Btw when a Pole, of all people, is telling me I'm "playing the victim", that's when I know I've passed to the other side of the looking glass.
Nobody, least of all me, is suggesting what is happening now in Gaza (and Iran) is due to what Germans and Poles did to the Jewish population. But in terms of causality, creating a hostile environment that drove them to create their own 'safehaven state' has certainly played a role in the creation of the state of Israel.
Who is going to read it?
No I will defend grandmaster kania he might swing with the wind like all psl do but his words are worth reading
Maybe we [didn't / weren't able to act quickly enoug
Taking the **** out of The poms is what we poles and Aussies do. Its well deserved.
Churchill DID come up with plans to attack Russia, and as far as I know it was the USA that didn't want any part of it
This is true.
It suited the PRL though to pretend that the western powers were against Poland.
That is also partly the origin of the myth about them not being invited to the victory parade.
To the extent that this joker just said our war casualties - a war we joined when Poland was invaded - were 'laughable'.
Someone (who had spent a month in Preston) once said to me that the U.K. wasn't bombed at all. In fact Lancashire was heavily bombed and members of my family died in the blitz there. He probably didn't appreciate that the level of infrastructure and built environment was high and if, say, 25 or 50% were lost, there would still be a lot left.
the origin of the myth about them not being invited to the victory parade
The 303 squadron was denied marching at the victory parade. Keep going and you will get ***** slapped for your historical revision.
our war casualties - a war we joined when Poland was invaded - were 'laughable'
I can only apologise for the things written on the Internet by my compatriots that you read and will inevitably read in the future, but believe me - most of them are not bad people. They would behave differently if you sat at the table with them in the real life. Internet, unfortunately, has this annoying quality of bringing out the worst in people. :(
the myth about them not being invited to the victory parade
Jon, I told you so many times - either show us this mythical invitation now or forever hold your peace.
either show us t
There is no evidence he needs a proper beating, since he's living in Poland it's quite possible.
WarSore
22 Jun 2025 #68
@amiga500
Lol - big tough guy, eh?
This is the mental illness of Polish nationalism at its finest - bloke makes a statement that disagrees with your national martyrology and you start talking about giving him a beating.
Lol - big tough guy, eh?
This is the mental illness of Polish nationalism at its finest - bloke makes a statement that disagrees with your national martyrology and you start talking about giving him a beating.
bloke makes a statement that disagrees with your national martyrology and you start talking about giving him a beating.
They like to argue that black is white and white is black. You should see what some of them say about Jedwabne; they don't believe it themselves but desperately want to.
The 303 squadron was denied marching at the victory parade.
Nobody was "denied". This has been covered here many times before.
show us ....invitation
Someone once posted a screenshot of the relevant papers from the national archive here. Perhaps you missed it. It's probably findable. The Ambassador also made a statement about it to dispel the myth.
he needs a proper beating
I do not condone violence and especially not directed against the PF Old Guard, of which Jon is a valuable member.
Perhaps you missed it.
I doubt it. *goes looking*
People with attention spans that weren't destroyed by social media.
That would be people without access to the Interenet. Can they even read?
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to what Germans and Poles did to the Jewish population
That! After casually putting something like that here, you still expect civility. Dream on!
By the way, I'm very civil to you, ask anyone.
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I'm "playing the victim"
Oh, someone hurt your feelings. Should we comfort you? wrong address.
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in the creation of the state of Israel.
If I understand your train of thought correctly, since Israel was created, it was inevitable for them to commit ethnic cleansing and be a racist, warmongering state. Just a force of nature. Is that being anti-Semitic in a roundabout way?
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incurred after joining your war"
You never joined our war. Our war ended in 1939. After that, it was resistance, not a war for Poland.
I hope you do not imply you joined that war for Poland.
By the way, I'm very civil to you, ask anyone.
True.
Compared to his usual demeanour Iron is behaving like a fluffy, cuddly teddy bear at the moment. :D
@Jon
Where is this screenshot? I can't find it.
The 303 squadron was denied marching at the victory parade.
Whether they were denied marching at the victory parade or not, that is not important here. After all, why would Poland march in somebody else's victory parade when we lost that war? As a part of the British war effort, some colonial auxiliary forces? It might be for the best not to take part in it. Although people at the time felt wronged.
doubt it. *goes looking*
Just read the pom focused biography of the 303 squadron
Because the pilots were involved in the airdrops during the warsaw uprising
WarSore
22 Jun 2025 #75
@Ironside
"Your war" ended when you were defeated, yes (in the sense of "for you, zer war is over"). But the war that started when you were invaded continued - the war we joined because you were invaded. And again, plenty of others sat it out or joined your enemy, so you know there WERE other options on the table.
Sorry if the reality of Polish antisemitism (part of a general wave in continental Europe pre-war that created the environment for the Holocaust) creating justification for the state of Israel's existence troubles you. When your country was having pogroms even AFTER the Holocaust, it is a little much to start claiming you're blameless. Once again, I didn't say it was inevitable that Israel would turn into what it has, but the creation of the state itself bears Polish as well as German fingerprints. You drove them out of Europe.
MY feelings are hurt? That's a gem. Which item of your national martyrology can I critique now that will cause you and the other proud nationalists to start bawling?
"Your war" ended when you were defeated, yes (in the sense of "for you, zer war is over"). But the war that started when you were invaded continued - the war we joined because you were invaded. And again, plenty of others sat it out or joined your enemy, so you know there WERE other options on the table.
Sorry if the reality of Polish antisemitism (part of a general wave in continental Europe pre-war that created the environment for the Holocaust) creating justification for the state of Israel's existence troubles you. When your country was having pogroms even AFTER the Holocaust, it is a little much to start claiming you're blameless. Once again, I didn't say it was inevitable that Israel would turn into what it has, but the creation of the state itself bears Polish as well as German fingerprints. You drove them out of Europe.
MY feelings are hurt? That's a gem. Which item of your national martyrology can I critique now that will cause you and the other proud nationalists to start bawling?
This is why every one in ten stag pom parties in krakow needs to end with a hospital level beating.
WarSore
22 Jun 2025 #77
@amiga500
That's very funny mate. Try it and see what happens to your hundreds of thousands of economic migrants in our country. No more drinking on the street for Darek unless he wants a kicking.
That's very funny mate. Try it and see what happens to your hundreds of thousands of economic migrants in our country. No more drinking on the street for Darek unless he wants a kicking.
but the creation of the state itself bears Polish
yes more thanhalf the elites and the army of the founding of Israel are polish. We are proud of it.
about Jedwabne
What do you want to start here? There is nothing about Jedwabne besides it was a political stunt, not a historical study. That study needs to be done.
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I doubt it. *goes looking*
There were some British officers with connections to the high brass who asked them to make an exception and invite Polish pilots who took part in the Battle of Britain to take part in that parade. Such an invitation was extended to those pilots. After consultation with their commanders, they turned it down. Since no other combatants from Polish forces under the British command had been invited to the parade due to the instance of the Soviet Polish Government, i.e., Moscow.
Our war ended in 1939
In some ways it ended in 1989.
When your country was having pogroms even AFTER the Holocaust,
Remember, pogroms are easy to whip up and take on a life of their own. I'm far less critical of those caught up in the Kielce pogrom after seeing how easily people were whipped up into pogroms (and they were pogroms) after the misinformation about the Southport killings.
stag pom parties in krakow
Better still, beat up the (Polish) organisers who advertise such tours in the worst places with vodka and tÃtties in the ads.
Anyway, Krakow is old hat now.
the creation of the state itself bears Polish as well as German fingerprints
Hm... this is a very vague statement, a one that is seemingly true but would seem to entail a measure of oversimplification and, possibly, a bit unfair as well. I understand you are annoyed by the unfair comments towards your country but you seem to be doing exactly the same thing here. Or maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are not putting an equals sign between Poland and Germany when it comes to Holocaust and the responsibility for it. Surely you realise the difference between the actions of certain civilians or crimes perpetrated by an angry mob here and there, and the official state-level genocidal policy?
You drove them out of Europe.
Jewish population in Poland thrived and multiplied throughout centuries and whilst Poland was also affected by the pre-WW2 wave of antisemitism in Europe, there was no official state-level genocidal policy of the Polish state towards Jews, so maybe - just maybe - using the collective 'you' when you apparently mean 'Poles and Germans' is just a tad unfair, don't you think?
But sure, I get it - you reply to our unfairness towards Britain with unfairness of your own. Understandable, I suppose.
more than half the elites and the army of the founding of Israel are polish. We are proud of it.
Wow! I didn't expect that from you, Amiga. *high five*
That's a gem. Which item of your national martyrology can I critique now that will cause you and the other proud nationalists to start bawling?
Oh, you make me laugh, thank you.
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There is nothing new; here and there, some upstart tries to rain on our parade, and we are used to it. On the other hand, you Brits, you have very thin skin; I just make you jump to my tune. Effortlessly lol!
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the war we joined because you were invaded
You needed that pretext for your public opinion. It was one of the reasons you extended your guarantees for Poland.
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antisemitism
Why would that trouble me? There is nothing wrong with anti-semitism. I'm not troubled; whoever gave that idea, it's just part of spreading anti-Polishism by blaming Poles for everything. It is quite common, so there is nothing new in your post. I just told you not to expect civility after casually pulling old anti-Polish slurs and fabrications.
However, I found your logic baffling. Would you care to enlighten me in that regard?
, I didn't say it was inevitable that Israel would turn into what it has, but the creation of the state itself bears Polish as well as German fingerprints. You drove them out of Europe.
Since Israel is blameless, as you claim, and we drove them out of Europe, it must be our fault that they slaughter toddlers every day.
Those nasty Poles.
There is nothing wrong with anti-semitism
There is.
There is.
What's wrong with it?
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your hundreds of thousands of economic migrants in our country
You are in no position to do me a favor and to kick them all out. It would be nice if the British government gave them two years to pack and leave.
It would be nice if the British government gave them two years to pack and leave.
Hm... good thinking, Iron. We will need a lot of workforce when Ukrainians go back to their country or move further West. It would be nice to have our own back instead of importing workers from all over the world.
Tell ya what, @WarSore, if you can somehow arrange for all (or at least most) Poles to come back from the UK, we promise to never mention 'betrayal' or 'phoney war' again. As a bonus, we will also proclaim everywhere that British ladies are second only to Polish when it comes to beauty, warmth and personal charm. Do we have a deal? ;)
Mr Grunwald 34 | 2290
22 Jun 2025 #86
Where is this screenshot? I can't find it.
Torq... At first there was no wish to invite Poles to the parade, the new LABOUR government intended to improve relations with Stalin compared to CHURCHILL.
RAF convinced the politicians to at least invite Polish airmen of the military forces in exile (until then only a invitation was sent officially to the PRL authorities that naturally rejected it to not upset Stalin themselves and Polish airmen in exile felt as if other Poles in exiles were snubbed out of the invitation and refused to participate out of solidarity with all Polish soldiers in exile. The result? No Poles marching on the parade, even tho invitation were sent. To both political camps.
I blame Polish drama mostly for this, no matter how fair or unfair or what feelings arises. You know it is true...
even tho invitation were sent
What was this superficial difference between polish airman fighting against the nazis that were or were not in exile?
So in summary, the war heroes of the 303 squadron were not permitted to march in victory parade.
invite
All foreign combatants including The Netherlands and France were there.
Your appraisal is a good one and very very close. There were also issues with the Polish government-in-exile (in fact both of them, since there was a split) which played a role.
Mr Grunwald 34 | 2290
22 Jun 2025 #89
So in summary,
In summary they were, but did not participate themselves out of solidarity if you want to be "technical"
You are brainwashed by PRL propaganda (and so many other Poles). If anyone was to be blamed for 1939 situation it's U.S.A's isolationism, France's shameless and cynical use of Poland as a wooden shield and Soviet Union's imperial ambitions. U.K truly couldn't have anything better then it did.
U.K might and power was mostly on paper, that it even resiliently withstood the Air Blitz is a miracle and gave a chance for the world to get rid of Nazism.
Poland has a lot of rightful and just complaints towards France mainly. (May that language never be spoken in Poland)
U.K? Regarding ww2? Not so much, Great Britain right before Napoleon is another story
it's pretty simple, there's a RAF squadron that are war heroes, the geopolitical situation allows it.
why weren't they allowed to march in the parade?
grunwald makes some wierd allegations about another air force squadron that was not in exile.
who were they? is this one of stalins secret squadrons?
sounds like a load of bollox to me
a lot of giberish right there, but we are talking about Great Britain, Polish Air Force Units,the Polish Goverment in Exile and the March for VE
why weren't they allowed to march in the parade?
grunwald makes some wierd allegations about another air force squadron that was not in exile.
who were they? is this one of stalins secret squadrons?
sounds like a load of bollox to me
right before Napoleon is another story
a lot of giberish right there, but we are talking about Great Britain, Polish Air Force Units,the Polish Goverment in Exile and the March for VE