Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more?

I've been to Germany several times. Germans are very kind and cultured so I definitely have a very positive view of them. I haven't met too many Russians though.

That was a war between Poland and Germany and this war was planned and wanted from Poland. After it mercilessly had lost against Germany, it should become territory of its conquerors which is a simple law of war and legitimate. Where is the problem? Other way around it would have been the same.

I think that Poland is the most incompetent and useless country in Western Europe and it must be a big frustration to see how a country like Germany under the post-war yoke and with so many immigrants is still more successful and powerful than Poland.

The russian holigan exemplifies why Poland and other countries what to be closer to the EU and Germany; and as fas away as possible from The Russian Empire (!)

- Poland didn't expect USSR to join in the invasion and expected allies UK/France to uphold their alliance
- Poland is not in Western Europe
- Germany rebuilt after WW2 while Poland was deserted by it's allies within the Iron Curtain (still rebuilding today)
- Of course Germany is more successful current day compared to a country that has longer been off the Map than on it over the past 250 years. Invaded and carved up by Prussia, Austria and Russia

Actually, expert opinion differs greatly from yours. In fact, they say (and I would conquer) that Poland is one of the most successful countries in the old eastern bloc. While I do maintain the opinion that the success has an expiry date, one can not deny that Poland, in 10 years of EU membership, has done rather well for itselt.

With regards to frustration over Germany's success. I would not call it frustration but admiration. It is not a secret that, when it comes to business, Germans are rather respected in Poland and there is a reason for it. I know of a few Germans who sit on the board of medium sized Polish enterprises and that has been the case since the early 90's. I would suggest you take a train journey on the Warsaw - Berlin Express on a Friday afternoon and speak to some of the guys that go back home for the weekend.

In any case, I can not agree with your statement at all. It shows lack of knowledge.

First of all,Germany doesnt exist to the 1871..Secondly Poland was very strong country from XV to XVIII century and Poland also conquered other countries like Teutonic order or Russian eastern lands(Smolensk,Czernihow etc) or moldovia and estonia.So please dont do from poland martyr

PS:sorry for bad english.

Hmmm. I'm new to this site, but over the years have read many of the threads. I have done quite a bit of research into the old eastern provinces (now Belarus) including transcribing the names of some 200,000 people who lived in Wojewódstwo Wileńskie before 1939 (they're on various websites now).

My father (still living) was deported on 10th February 1940 from the Smorgon area along with his brother, one sister and mother, to Rudnik Kommunar, Krasnojarski Kraj. They left behind one sister. According to my dad, some weeks before their deportation, all of the local (non-Polish) population came to their houses and told them to get out. My grandmother said "where are we supposed to go?" only to be told "go to your God....". They left to relatives not too far away, partially returning about 6 weeks later to find their house ran-sacked and all their animals taken. They only returned because they were told it was safe to do so now. As it is, one daughter was left behind at her grandmothers and on 10th February, she was not deported.

My dad remembers receiving a letter from her whilst they were in Siberia. Quite how the postal system worked across front-lines I'm not sure, but he remembers along with the letter was a parcel with food and other items.

The letter he remembers well because she says (and I summarise here) "It's all OK now. The Germans are here. They took me around the village and asked me to identify all of our livestock and returned it to us...."

Her father (my granddad) was an Osadnik having won his virtuti militari in 1920 in the bolshevik war. So that side of the family makes it clear as to which side is and was disliked more.

I have to add that on my maternal family side, it is opposite...their records show that even though they spoke Polish, their deportation records show them as Belarussian and my granddad would always break into Russian song and never hear a bad word against them, even though they deported him to Szoksza in Murmansk!

Russian eastern lands(Smolensk) - the statement can be disputed.

The Teutonic Order conquered other countries like Estonia, Latvia parts of Poland and Lithuania but was bitten by Poland and all his lands were incorporated into Poland .

This way, it is more correct


Sorry, ....... was beaten by Poland......

You simply can't be pan-Slavic as a Pole since Poland isn't included. Poland was refused joining it as we are the only(?) country that never accepted Russian supremacy. Read on wiki what Pan-Slavia actually is. Hint: its something completely different from, let's say, inter-Slavic love.

... and being nationalist (not extremist) is not being afraid of other countries but being proud of one's motherland. Its not about destroying other countries but about keeping your country as most important.

Proper nationalism (do not think extreme) is patriotism.

Ok brat, whatever you say :-). I have inter-slavic love this is true. I know it should not be Russian supremacy as that is not good, everyone should have their concerns met

Polish people wouldn't dislike the Russian people at all. It's just the usual Russian government that makes it possible for poles to dislike Russians. If you removed this obstacle and encouraged closer ties and opportunity the very notion would be ridiculous.

Spoko, bracie ;) I too, love everything Slavic. The only thing I really regret is Poland becoming Christianised. We had some nice pagan religion :)

I AM GERMAN AND I RECOGNIZE WHAT BAD THINGS DID MY NATION TO THE POOR POLES
Yes, I think that Poles hate Germans the next historical reasons:
1.the partition of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth between the German, Austrian and Russian empires,then Poland disappeared from Europe
2.the fact that millions of Poles died revolting against Germany for about 3 times
3.territories occupied by the Germans were gemanized and Polish people were deported to the western part of Germany for never returning home in the Polish Motherland especially for having nationalistic thoughts,Catholic Churches were destroyed and robbed, Germany Army of Frederick the Great which stayed is Silesia fighting against Austro-Hungarian brothers raped and killed tens of thousands of Polish civilians, Frederick hated the Poles and tried to surpress their nation, considering that Poles are Slavic Gypsies and have to die; also did some good things, industrializing the country

4.for 100 years, Poles were let to starvation by the Germans and all the crops were sent to the Kaizerist Empire
5.Germans expulsed 50,000 Poles to Russia in inhuman conditions, civilians were beated with rifles, some were killed,many starved to death etc...
6.in all the wars that Germany had with France, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Argentina, Blacks in Africa and others, the Poles were put in the first lines to be exterminated

7.intellectuals were killed or expulsed from the German Empire
8.the Poles hardly got Silesia in two wars in 1920s,during the retreat, Polish towns were totally desroyed, captive revolutionaries were tortured in medieval ways and preists, doctors and teachers of Polish origin were massacred

9.some German and Austrian minoritars tried to revolt to take again Silesia to Germany, they were defeated, but also committed horrible crimes against Poles: Polish defenders had their hands or legs amputated, genitas cut, eyes taken away and other barbaric crimes.

10.when Nazi Germany became a superpower, Poland was immediately attacked, because the German brothers had to be eliberated from Polish "barbarism'', during the occupation, 6 million Poles were killed in bombardments, massacres, deportations in extermination camps, where they were gassed, burned alive, etc. TREATED LIKE JEWS AND GYPSIES!!!

11.during the Communism regime in East Germany, a large number of Poles were killed or imprisoned and there were also Stasi(German secret police) spies in Poland who tortured and killed anti-Communists

POLAND SAVED GERMANY AT VIENNA. WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE WITH OUR BROTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes and no. I agree that on an individual basis Poles and Russians are quite similar and usually get on well with another. However, it makes one think again when you see that the majority of Russians believe that Putin was right to invade Ukraine and that they still believe Stalin to be a hero as opposed to a mass murderer..

Mirten,

Based upon my readings, I would say that Poles historically disliked neighboring Germany, yet feared Russia much more intensely! I base this on my research into the losses which Poland sustained at the hands of Stalin vs. Hitler. While Hitler did of course amply label Slavs (above all the Poles) as "subhuman" cf. Stauffenberg's long-repressed quote which finally surfaced several days ago in the Polish press that Poles are "shiftless low lives" (Gesindel) who must be regularly beaten" in order to remain obedient, one must make a distinction between the incalculable losses the Polish gentile majority suffered in contrast with that of Polish Jewry!

Polish Jews surely saw Germany as a far more fiendish enemy that Russia ever was.

I very much doubt that.


Some do, most don't.

More Poles learned German for years rather than English (even when it was later offered in school). Those I've spoken to also preferred it to Russian (albeit the latter was superficially easier for them):-)

From 1933 on maybe, and many of their ancestors have most likely changed their negative view of Germany by now. How about the Jewish community in NYC and Florida? Do you know?


True. Even today it's advisable to write to the Polish state archives in German rather than in English. Learning German still makes sense these days given the fact that Europe's strongest economy is right next door, and to find a decent job there German language skills are a must.

I very much doubt that you are German for the simple reason that any German would know that Germany didn't exist until 1871. You could argue that it possibly started in 1815, but as far as I know, modern Germany takes 1871 as being the start of the modern German nation.

Correct!

However, it might also be that Mirten's schooling is poor and he may not have learned in history class about Modern Germany:-)
Considering all the revisionism that's been going on recently apropos Hitler and the Holocaust, I'm not surprised. Frankly, it didn't even occur to me reading his post. And don't let's please not forget the embarrassing PISA study some years back, in which Germany was ranked almost number fifteen among world nations in education.

An anegdote.
A Brit meets a Pole on the streets of London and asks this question:
Brit- If You could shoot a German and a Russian with no repercussions who would You shoot first?
Pole(with no hesistation)- A German!!!!
Brit-Why so?
Pole- Duty first! A pleasure later!

Nice one:-)

By the by, the spelling is "aneCdote":-) Think of "eXam" vs. "eGZamin" etc....

English spelling's a nightmare for most Europeans, don't worry, I'm only being my persnickety self!

Know it :) Just a bit tipsy :D Surfing the net while listening to Polish, patriotic songs. :D

Please, not that nonsense again. You know very well that Germany's ranking was/is lowered significantly by the large number of immigrant kids and refugees that were/are flooding the public school system. The "Spiegel" magazine even reported that states with a socialist SPD/Green government (like Bremen, Berlin and Brandenburg for example) had fared much worse than those with a conservative CDU/CSU majority. If Bavaria or Saxony would have been independent countries, they would have ranked way above the #1, Finland. The state governments of course insisted that from that year on, statistics about the results of the states wouldn't be published anymore and that only the overall ranking of Germany would be made publicly available. Guess why. On top of that, certain countries prepare their schools specifically for the PISA study. In short: that study is almost worthless.

Nonsense?? PISA was correct, TheOther!! Whether the reasons are due to immigrant children or not, the fact IS that Germany's level HAS lowered over the past decades:-) How can you argue with facts or are you merely splitting hairs as usual?LOL

"Nonsense" was referring to the PISA study, not to you... :)


You talk about loss of quality without asking for the reasons? Seriously?

I've said it before in another thread: the PISA study is not worth the paper it's written on. There are so many factors that influence the outcome, so many different political interests involved, that I have lost all faith in studies like that. They are simply looking for reasons to mess with the various school systems yet again, and the ones who are paying the price are our kids. F*uck PISA, really. Instead of wasting the money for useless tests, I'd rather have them invest in our schools.


Those "facts" are manipulated, and you know that.

ALL facts by their very nature are subject to both legitimate "interpretation" as well as abuse by certain groups wielding a particular agenda, and the fact remains that Germany has suffered seriously, starting in around 1985 up 'till round about the late '90's and beyond with a much-watered down school system to accomodate all those groups heretofore excluded: the feeble minded, immigrants, often from poor, illiterate families, as well as children from so-to-speak "broken homes" aka "at-risk" populations.

The situation is roughly analogous to contemporary America. The reason that countries such as Sweden, Iceland and Finland seeme to score so high, is/was the relative lack of the type of malignant social problems which have invaded Germany, the US, the UK and France. In by and large homogeneous societies, e.g. Sweden or Iceland, (yet curiously NOT Norway or Denmark as much any longer!), the learning curve is far more uniform, the household and the school go much more hand in hand, and immigrants are far less integrated than they are in many other countries in Europe.

Exactly the reason why I said the PISA study isn't worth much. You cannot seriously compare and rank school systems without taking the problems into account that most western countries are facing these days. To give an example from the US: schools in affluent school districts in the burbs fare much better than those in downtown neighborhoods in larger cities. Make an inner city school part of the PISA study, and it draws down your results significantly.


I agree.

Name me one testing system which ISN'T flawed in some way, I dare you!
:-)

Delphiandomine and Lyzko, Germany existed under the name of HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE OF GERMAN NATION until 1805, then it was called the GERMAN CONFEDERATION until 1866 when Austria became indipendent, then until 1871 NORTH GERMAN CONFEDERATION and from 1871 GERMAN EMPIRE, i know my nation's history, believe me ;)

That's probably a poor **** of anti-German propaganda, I do not say that Germany has the best educational system,but in Europe is the third, after U.K. which has Oxford and France which has Sorbona. Although it doesn't have well known universities, German schools have better conditions and pupils learn more than stupid Frenchies and British. First, Lyzko I think you are a Polish...I would say be very patient with your poor Polandand don't comment how Germany is ok?