Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more?

I'm also familiar with Fest's work, but in this regard would tend to disagree. His historical expertise however, along with his life experience, vastly exceeds my own.

pgtx
Poland invaded Russia in the 17th century. The monument to Citizen Minin and Prince Pozharsky in front of the St Basil cathedral on the Red Square in Moscow is to commemorate the defeat of the Polish garrison in Moscow and liberation of the city in 1612.

To some extent, the Polish had the rightful casus belli of restoring order in her eastern neighbour, and also to help the boyars tired of czarist tyranny and seeking for Golden Freedom, as well as the uprising peasants who sought them for help, though the last one seemed not that legitimate as Polish peasants were not in good shape as well.

Anyway, Poles didn't aimed at any serious conquest of Muscowy, they simply demanded a personal union liked that with Lithuania, and furthermore, compared with Russian's previous constant invasions to the Lithuanian territories and its later attempts to conquer and assimilate the entire Commonwealth, which nearly succeeded, the Polish intervention is not of a same level.

You couldn't nail 2 planks together. You obviously do not understand the history of this area to comment. So please don't. Alligator (and the text) explain to you why the churches were destroyed. It's clear that this was not 'Polonisation' - but you simply back off - saying it's off topic. That's what losers do. Be a man. Operation Wisla was carried out by the Soviets. The Poles did not really have a say in that. Neither did they in the West. Everyone knows that. However - they disliked the Russians more - for hundreds of years of relentless - persistent aggression. Makes you want to trash a few churches - innit!


...becuase you have met all these Germans with this 'sense of shame'...?


Poland tried to unite with Lithuania and other Baltic states before WW!! (Paderewski) arguing that together they would be more powerfull against Germany - but they prefered to be alone. Vilnius was a Polish town before the partition before 1800.

After german invasion - Poland was planning to regroup and create a front at the Romanian border - but Russia invaded and that was no longer possible

Factually correct, Freeespirit, though quite honestly I think that nowadays especially, Poland is far more afraid of as well as resentful of Russia, not Germany! I've known over the years umpteen younger to middle-aged Poles who have studied and in fact speak German, visit Germany often and have zero issues with their neighbor to their west. Rarely, except among seniors, have I ever encountered a Pole who either speaks Russian fluently or even admits to knowing Russia!

Yes, there live 200' - 500' Germans in Poland (mainly in Upper Silesia) & bout 1.5 mio Poles in Germany.
There are also marriages btw. Germans and Poles (esp. Polish women), Germ. ist Polands #1 export & import partner,
Polish car number plate systems is according to the German one (registration due to powiats in PL and Landkreise in D,
Polish painters have in the 19th century often studied in Munich (eg Maksymilian Gierymski), and so on.
Hatred can't be that extreme.

The topic question should read like this: Do Humans in general dislike their neighbors on the west/east or north/south side more?

If you think it a dumb question I just proposed let me explain. Throughout history since the first family (Cain killed Abel) its been mostly brother killing brother. Take any part of the world and you will see this to be true. Middle east, Asia, Europe, Africa... the two neighbors fighting each other, to an outsiders look just like brothers.

Its in our DNA to be hateful to the one closes to you. Husband/wife, parents/children, brothers/sisters..., will often treat each other like worst enemies, and treat a total stranger with respect. Why? You fight with the one you love I guess, but you do it long enough and it becomes deep hate that is hard to shake off.

Poles and Russians are brothers, they have history, culture, and even religion and thinking to some extend alike. But the fighting has been going on for so long, that it left many scars - that I don't think can be shaken off easily. A simple sorry won't do.

I do believe Polish people dislike Russia more then Germany, but I believe somewhere deep inside, they also want love Russia more then Germany (I could be wrong).

Poland is the second largest Slavic country, after Russia. Just imagine the power in unity if all slavs lived in peace with each other, yet we see nothing but hate with the ones that should be close - Ukraine/Russia/Poland.

Is it part of being human? YES. Therefore I don't for one like the idea of someone stating or giving excuses how good or bad their race/nationality is. All of us are capable individually being Cain or Abel. Its how we were raised and choices we make in life that will determine who we become. I believe strong nationalism is very dangerous, that how one believes he is better then his neighbor. Nationalism is how people get brainwashed to go to war and do terrible things to their fellow brother/human. For this reason I'm not surprised at all to what is happening in Ukraine.

I agree, that is why I am pan-Slavic and anti-nationalist, I don't believe people should identify by artificial lines drawn on maps


You nailed it!

[quote= 2321] Poles and Russians are brothers, they have history, culture, and even religion and thinking to some extend alike[/quote ]

Poles and Russians have VERY DIFFERENT history, culture, and even religion.
( Ukrainians somewhere between them )

But Poles and Russians can become good neighbours, I hope

Pan-Slavism under the scepter of czar Putin? Is that what we want? Really?
Poles and Russians can maybe, hopefully become OK neighbors and that's it. But I doubt it.

As a pole myself, I would not say I dislike Germans and Russians as individuals as I have Russian and German friends. I would say however that overall I dislike the countries of Russia and Germany because the two countries have devasted Poland throughout the centuries. The story of my country is most tragic and difficult.We were constantly caught between the two imperialistic nations and had to constantly fight for our freedom. In my opinion, the story is not over. Germans steal polish biussness and jobs,and spread hateful stereotypes about us throughout the west. In the east, the Russians are rising again , and are threatening ukraine . I believe that Putin has his eye on my land too.So yes, I dislike Germany and Russia. I would say however that I dislike the germans more, as they are not only the enemies of our country Poland but of the slavic people in general

Case closed.

~2 million Poles, 1,4 million Yugoslavs, and up to 6 million Russian Speakers live in Germany. I guess they are all masochists....

-in North America the history of Poland is very poorly taught and members of the Polish diaspora have very emotional reactions to historical discussions. From the stories handed down from my great-grandparents the authorities in Russian occupied 1900 Poland were always trying to get both Roman Catholics and Protestants to convert to the Orthodox Church if they wanted jobs, promotions or other help form the government. My great-grandmother who was born in Warsaw hated the Nazis but despised the Russians who invaded her homeland. When I visited Europe in the early 80s, the German's I met admired the courage of the Solidarity movement and wanted the East Germans to be more like them. My studies of history suggest that Poland is a central European country with strong ties to France and Austria and a burning rage towards Russia along with Finland, the Baltics, Ukraine and every other country the Russian have tried to destroy. Slavic unity usually means Russia and Serbia get to dominate everyone else.

Germans would be my logical thought.

I think if we look at history Germans have always considered Poles and Slavs for that matter inferior. It was during the medieval times that "Drag Nach osten" first came about. Hitler merely copied it centuries later.

having said that I think its a matter of opinion. I don't think we can say who Poles as a collective nation like or dislike more.

Market research shows the Germans are much more popular than the Russians.

Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine I expect Russia has fallen down the chart a lot.

In Ukraine admiration for Russian leaders has fallen from 45% to 5% in one year.

We dislike both of them, so yeah... :/

And for this crappy answer you've joined PF?

Major tough economic times ahead for Russia, takes to the manipulative West. Bitter and vengeful Russia is back. Poland needs to wise up

1. Collect some more EU funds
2. Seek the EU's break up
3. Repair relationship and become trade partner with Russia

Win/Win. Is Polska wise enough or wants to remain a buffer zone for empty Western promises?

I wouldn't call them bitter and vengeful, not without good reason anyways. But I absolutely agree with your 3 step plan.

Its a great plan to you Russians, but Poles know that Russias views its neighbours as colonys for raping and pillaging.

No thanks.

Heres an alternate plan;

1. Russia leaves its invaded neighbours.
2. Putin and other thieves give back the money they stole from russian economy.
3. An actual leader is elected who is Not a spy with an.iq above current.
4. Russia stops talking laughable childish rubbish and stops assuming anyone is taking it seriously because atm....lol. Russia learns basic manners and develops diplomacy.
5. Neighbours love russia and trade their ass off with them.
6. Russian people upgrade their country and lives and are respected worldwide.

Note that poland is not in the plan. This is because Poland has a plan already, it joined the rest of the world.

Poland's plan is realistic. The plan you outline has about as much chance of coming about as Sinead O'Connor has of becoming the next Pope.

To stay on topic I think the old russians are less liked now. This is because the germans have a plan and are massively good for poland and people with work and business. The german input into poland is very positive atm and they all worked hard to do it. Germans worked hard to.do it too and there's your massive.difference. Both benefit now.

On the other side of the coin you have war and stuff to the east and a lot of unfriendly banter. When russia starts working with poland and its neighbours instead of just issuing demands people will change their minds. Instead of sending stupid jet they could send positive signs.

To sum all this up I think germans will be more.liked in the future unless sinhead o'connor becomes pope.

Compared to Post Cold War the West buying out Polish industry and closing shop? So now whatever is even left in Poland is foreign owned

West nor Russia have our best interest in mind but we "share a border with" Russia so our focus should be set on that relationship first.

You know, as a child of a French man and a Polish woman, born and bread in East Berlin, I am very patriotic about being German although in fact I am even more patriotic about my country which doesn't exist anymore ( who doesn't love the country they were born in?). I can only say that I love the Russians as much as I love the Polish. I love their way of living, their way of keeping traditions (something we "westerners" have lost a long time ago). I have no issue with Poles or Russians neither do they seem to have an issue with me as a German. So what is this topic about?

Who hates who most? Look west! In 2007 I went to a football game in Frankfurt between Germany and Wales. The main chant between the supporters was "We hate England more than you". Same in Ireland, again, "we hate England more than you". Does it reflect in real life? I hardly think so. It's banter.

Anyone who wastes their time thinking about who they hate more has more serious issues than just hating someone. Grow up guys!

But you are half Polish, so you feel zero connection to the country you mother comes from? That's sad.

The distinction between individuals and a country should be made. You can dislike a country and meet people from there and like them. Different things.

How did you get to that assumption? Given the fact that I live in Poland would somewhat give away that there must be some kind of connection, no?

Wooooow... what an Thread. A stupid korean Something ask a stupid Question, witch let the polish poeples looks like Citizen of the 18th Century.

What an Crap.

I was in a relationship more than 10 Years with an very lovely polish woman. I learned many things about poland and pollish People. I visit so many Times Poland

and i can say: Poland and the polish People are not like it Shows if you all read this answers. I always was welcome, most of the People are friendly and warm hearted. I din't felt any **** of hate or dislike or something - and yes i'm German. And Yes, i like Germany.

I was Born in 1976 - 30 Years after "Nazi-Germany"

Jesus, it was terrible was happend in the WW2 - but it's not the fault of my Generation. And whats happend with the Nazi's arround the World - this is not the same Country like the Germany of today.

(i don't know much about the Russians today, so therefor i don't say anything about them ok )

So for me the question for all the ppls who disliked the Germans: What do you hate in Germans? or in Germany? What is it?

- is it the fact that to non other Country stands Germany closer and beside as a Partner as to Poland?
- is it, cos Germany helps to make things clear and at least helps out the Solidarność?

What is it ? i can't follow your mind.

And for the ppl who didn't know that we all live in 2014. The Sovjet repuplic doesn't exist anymore.

thanks.. yes by the way.. my english is terrible ;-)