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Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression?


Poloniusz 4 | 391
17 Feb 2021 #331
There was just not many Jews left to stage a demonstration back in Berlin 1939

So you admit that they could not bring themselves to perform even one act of selfless bravery and show solidarity with Poland or risk their own life and limb to help even one Pole.

Amazing.

But then again, it really isn't.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
17 Feb 2021 #332
Amazing.

Not amazing....just DEAD!

Had more Germans and Europeans cared before about their fate (not secretly applauded) I'm sure they would had found the energy to care more about Poland and the fate of other Europeans too.
Poloniusz 4 | 391
17 Feb 2021 #333
Not amazing....just DEAD!

Every single one of them? No survivors at all?

You're lying.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
17 Feb 2021 #334
....After the November pogroms in 1938, up to 40,000 people fled, including more than 15,000 Polish Jews deported in October. In 1939, almost 80,000 Jews managed to flee Germany. With the start of the war on September 1, 1939, the chances of leaving the country decreased - while around 500,000 Jews lived in Germany in 1933, there were only around 210,000 in 1939 - but it is still possible: in 1940, 15,000 Jews can still leave the country , In 1941 there are only half as many....

bpb.de/politik/hintergrund-aktuell/235829/1941-ausreiseverbot-fuer-juden

Dead, fleeing, hiding, soon to be dead....take your pick!
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #335
take your pick!

You forgot to include the Jews who fled and volunteered to join the Brits and the Poles to fight those bad "Nazis".
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
17 Feb 2021 #336
I think Pol rather had a show of support for Poland '39 before the Reichstag in mind...
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,957
17 Feb 2021 #337
@Poloniusz
The amount of Hebrews in Europe at the time was so minuscule that it was fairly easy for the German government to track every single one of them basically. Not only that, few of them were organized or even remotely concerned or interested in Poland unless the country they were living in stated something about it. Their main concern was fitting in and created any attention about themselves, especially in 1934-1945 German controlled areas. Then it was the priority of building Israel.

Anyone being able to share any opinion about anything about Poland, it was the Hebrew diaspora in U.S.A and at the time it had been heavily invested in creating tensions with Poland for the sake of making Polish Hebrews leave Poland and build Israel. So a lot of efforts were made to portray every possible incident between Poles and Hebrews to be worse then it actually was to increase number of emigrees to Israel (which they wanted to settle and build)

A good example was the Polish police harshly handling an illegal gathering of Orthodox Hebrews in 1920's Poland. (It was wartime and public gatherings were strictly reduced, as to counter communist activities)

After that incident it was blown all over the world about Poland performing a "pogrom" on Hebrews. Soon after American public after being strongly in favor of supporting the creation of Poland withdrew their support towards Poland and isolated herself from Europe.

Poland was basically seen as a smaller version of a Russian Tsarist-state by everyone not being Polish after that.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,245
17 Feb 2021 #338
@Novi, Jews were in a minority and hardly in a position to save much of anybody, least of all one other.
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #339
In 1939, there were 3 million Jews in Poland.

How many Jews were in the army on September 1?

I want the number. No stories, disclaimers, evasions, or other bs. And no adjectives, either.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,957
17 Feb 2021 #340
@Novichok
Around 100.000 I think, long time I read about it tho. Don't think there was conscription in Poland at the time, but citizens were called in to service non the less. I haven't studied it too close to be 100% sure
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
17 Feb 2021 #341
How many Jews were in the army on September 1?

How many minorities were in the army full stop, and why weren't they particularly keen on it?

Numbers never tell the full story by themselves, as any accountant should tell you.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
17 Feb 2021 #342
I want the number.

Someone searched for the names of the killed...I dunno if its complete though...

....Alphabetical lists of Jewish war dead from the Polish Armed Forces and Armed Forces in Exile. List 1 contains 1105 names of Jewish military casualties of the September 1939 campaign. List 2 contains 523 names of Jewish military casualties of the Polish Armed Forces in exile. (List 2 is divided chronologically and geographically into four sections:....

ushmm.org/online/hsv/source_view.php?SourceId=31204

There exist also a very interesting comic called "Maus"...the son of a polish/jewish Holocaust survivor wrote about the memoirs of his father who actually served in the polish forces in 1939...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus


Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #343
Let me bottom line my view on this subject.

Any Jew who lived or lives in Poland and ever said "Poles and Jews" is off my list of concerns.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
17 Feb 2021 #344
The service of the Jewish Poles is without question, they contributed to the fight against Germany their officers also perished at the hands of the Soviets in Katyn
GefreiterKania 3 | 42
17 Feb 2021 #345
The service of the Jewish Poles is without question

Correct.

Virtually every Polish fighting unit in WW2 had numerous Jews in its ranks (be it on the eastern or western front). Below, some of the graves of Polish soldiers of Mosaic confession in Polish military cemetery in Monte Cassino:

Monte Cassino
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #346
Those are stories. Still no number.

The service of the Jewish Poles

That was a nice gesture... I mean the reverse order.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
17 Feb 2021 #347
It was not a gesture it was to respect those Polish Jews who fought and who died serving alongside my father at Monte Cassino.
GefreiterKania 3 | 42
17 Feb 2021 #348
Still no number.

You might as well ask "how many Lutherans served in the Polish Army?" or Pentecostals, Orthodox or Buddhists. I don't think any country in WW2 kept detailed statistics about the religion of their soldiers.
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #349
Was that "Jewish Poles" a slipup? Nobody uses this sequence. It's always "Polish Jews". A gigantic difference...
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
17 Feb 2021 #350
I don't think any country in WW2 kept detailed statistics about the religion of their soldiers.

....and those who did weren't the best place to serve!
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #352
I don't think any country in WW2 kept detailed statistics about the religion of their soldiers.

They did in a remote country like Italy to mark their graves. So they knew. If not "they", the Jewish organizations knew all the relevant numbers to advance their agendas.

Jewish participation in the army should be right there near the top to show how Polish the "Polish Jews" were.
GefreiterKania 3 | 42
17 Feb 2021 #353
They did in a remote country like Italy to mark their graves

Of course, friends knew one another's religion, so they knew what sort of tombstone to use, but nobody seriously counted the soldiers of different religions.

Jewish organizations knew

I doubt it.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
17 Feb 2021 #354
nobody seriously counted the soldiers of different religions.

The British Army did, 30,000 jews served.

More info below.

yadvashem.org/holocaust/about/combat-resistance/jewish-soldiers.html#:~:text=Approximately%201.5%20million%20Jews%2C%20including,the%20Nazis%20and%20their%20allies.&text=Some%2030%2C000%20Jews%20from%20Eretz,army%20during%20World%20War%20II.
GefreiterKania 3 | 42
17 Feb 2021 #355
The British Army did

Interesting. I wonder for what purpose.

@dolnoslask

The article you linked says...

100,000 Jews fought in the Polish army against the German invasion (...) 10% of the Polish army, commensurate with the percentage of Jews

...but I am still not quite sure where they would get such information from.
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #356
I wonder for what purpose.

How about to promote unit cohesion? Try to imagine a platoon of Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists. Real fun, right?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
17 Feb 2021 #357
Interesting. I wonder for what purpose.

If your body was found in a mass grave your dog tags would show your service number, from which your religion could be found so that you would be buried with dignity and in the way your religion prescribes, hence the Jewish tombstones at Cassino.

For obvious reasons your tags would not show your religion.
GefreiterKania 3 | 42
17 Feb 2021 #358
unit cohesion?

I don't know about Muslims or Buddhists, but Polish army units were a mix of Catholic, Jewish and Orthodox soldiers, and it didn't seem to damage their morale/cohesion at all.

There were probably Polish Tatars (Muslim) in some of them too - again, no problems with cohesion.
Novichok 1 | 2,014
17 Feb 2021 #359
For obvious reasons your tags would not show your religion.

Neither should the way we look that includes hair, beard, dress, and all. That was more than stupid always and especially during the occupation.
Religion is internal and God has a good x-ray vision.
jon357 67 | 16,836
17 Feb 2021 #360
I wonder for what purpose.

Providing chaplaincy services within the armed forces as well as potential burials, grave markers and memorial services.

Happened before, happens today. The Polish Armed forces have Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim and Orthodox chaplsincies.

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