Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them?

For their chzechoslovakian slavic brothers who too had been victims of Nazi-Germany?
Who were about to shed the shackles of yet another dictatorship? As the Poles wished to do also?
For sure!

I know, and many Norwegians don't really /care
I am really ashamed of it, I think of the Sami culture very highly

Still proves my point that... not many Norwegians know FULLY what the Sami people went through...


The internet wasn't available the communication between nations wasn't that good, and nobody knew that much about what happened in ww2 like we know today.

Also Poles looked at Germans, Germany as evil imperialists (think of the propaganda from the commies with the NATO imperialistic countries etc). You know what propaganda can do to a person ;)

The times was right after WW2 :p

Thread attached on merging:
check out black Poles in Haiti
...

Very interesting combination. I heard the Haitian Black Pole descendents do take pride in their ancestry.

I did not know that black Poles in Haiti existed.

Yes, you are correct beckski, "Black Pole descendents do take pride in their ancestry.

If you view the 4 segments titled "Les Polonais on youtube.com/watch?v=gjGrm8CTM4U&feature=related"
the black Poles talk about being proud of being Polish.

Why are they proud?

They didnt its a myth
check the links Here

This is a joke.....right?

There are Blacks in Chicago with POLISH last names. Those Polish Buggers get around.

Aaaaah - the Lost Tribe of Poles ;)

I read about this Polish black society long time ago. They are descendants
of 6000 Polish legionnaires sent on Haiti by Napoleon Bonaparte.

I say - bring them home! :)

Lol the lost tribes of Poland. Where are the other 11?

BB the problem is that as late as 1945 Czechoslovakia and Poland were enemies and Czech army attempted to seize Kłodzko (for you its Glatz) prior to war Poland and Czechoslovakia had their territorial dispute and even earlier then that Czechy aided Germany and the Soviets against Poland.

There wasnt much brotherly love, while the vast majority of Poland was against invading anyone i doubt people grew beards over that (unlike invasion of Hungary by the Soviets for example).

I once had a black client at work, who looked exactly like Chaka Khan. Her last name happened to be Kaminski...

God talk about myths, the British were the first ones to abolish slavery and they even went as far as confiscating American slave cargo, so the silly yanks hid themselves under different flags. So sorry to break your myth about the land of the free, but the yanks, out of the civilized countries were one of the last to abolish slavery.

And yes its Americans who almost caused the extinction of the natives, not the Brits, so let go of your myth.

Did you know that wings on Polish winged hussars` backs are a myth in its largest part?

That is the typical image of a Polish hussar which got stuck in popular opinion:

According to a Polish historian, a typical hussar looked like that:



Facts:

-most hussars didn`t use wings

-if they did, it wasn`t in combat, but on parades. And it was just one wing.

-the parade wing wasn`t attached to hussar`s back but to the saddle.

-instead of wings, hussars used feathers attached to their shields, helmets, horses` heads etc.

-nearly all hussar armours kept in museums today had their wing gear installed in 19 century. Simply speaking, most were forged. :):):)

-wings were attached to hussars` backs by Polish patriotic painters who needed a symbolic image of Poland fighting enemies. With wings, hussars looked like archangels in paintings.

A long but informative article in Polish:

For over a hundred years, the Poles are struggling with a problem of historical nature , which - uncommon in our country - enlivens both scholars and ordinary bread eaters . As for the wing hussar , actually about whether the hussars had them back or not. It seems that it is not at all about historical truth , but rather of a myth tyczący bright past, extremely difficult to verify , or even to overthrow . What is interesting in all this , its verification are not at all interested scholars , so people not only authorized, but even required to determine the truth. Some of them even today deliberately falsifying history, acting at the same time for patriotic reasons , in order to build the glory of the Polish army in the country , and increasingly abroad. At all recently organized major international exhibitions, to name only the most important here , such as " Under one crown - the history and culture of the times of the Polish- Saxon ", " Eagle and three crowns . The neighborhood of Polish - Swedish Baltic Sea in the modern era, sixteenth to eighteenth centuries . " or " Land of the Winged Horsemen . Art Poland 1572-1764 r . " hussars was presented in Poland and abroad (Germany, Sweden , USA ) as the winged cavalry .

So, what exactly are you going to prove , why did you say " nice " . For me, it holds an ironic connotation , does it for you ?


pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legiony_Polskie_we_W%C5%82oszech

If you think, that we as the nation, mangle our history, the answer is , for sure, we do not, since in the quoted passage, as well as in school textbooks, it is mentioned about it .

Next , please ! Oh I have noticed that , and as an evidence you`ve put some scribble contained in a blog of Mr. Who Knows Him, anyway?

A very good source to support your argument. It just shows, how ignorant this Mr. Who Knows Him is .

All Nations colour history to suit themselves that's why there is more than one book (and no it's not for ease of carrying).

Especially, if the news is spread by a person not having any connection with the Polish, as Mr. Who Knows Him.

And why some Poles insist that none of the inconvenient facts from their history are in the least bit factual.

Who Witold Głębowicz the author?

I don't have time (or knowledge) to read the piece now. I will say however that there seems to be a reasonable bibliography and Pawian doesn't have a history of posting rubbish. It's hard to assume that the author his sources and the poster Pawian are all wrong.

I'm not a horseman (except Arkle) but I would imagine these "wings" would make it difficult to manoeuvre in battle.

Take a look at the ratio of polish troops to the enemy in the battles under Kircholm , Kies and Klushino , that was something , wasn`t it .

Monia I'm not disputing that the Hussars were marvellous soldiers winning lots of battles and so on. Did they wear these wings in battle? I doubt it, once I have read the article that Pawian has paraphrased for us, I will have a little more knowledge to ruminate upon.

The thread is about historical myths everyone assumes that the Hussars charged (or whatever) wearing these wings that is a myth the truth is probably that the battles were won wingless. The wings were attached for parade.

Are you certain that there is no truth to the claim that the wings were used in battle to prevent the lassoes of Tartars from encircling the Hussars, and that they were attached to their saddles, so that if lassoes did encircle them they wouldn't be pulled off their horses? Historians, I've read, also claim that the wind whistling through the hussars wings when they charged made an eerie noise that terrified the enemy, and so they were also worn to induce panic in Poland's foes. Do most Polish military historians now agree that the wings were never used in battle?

i always thought this to be true. it seems 'myth busted'.

Nope, they agree that most probably the wings were used in battle. Opinions wary as to; one wing or two, connected onto the armor of hussar or onto the saddle.

The winds were an element used freely by individual hussar, no uniformity induced by a higher command.


Nope, not noise, rather their view had a psychological effect on a foe.
That and a fact that all those feathers and tiger skins, supposed to have a magical essence, infusing hussars with predatory spirit of those animals which skins and feathers they wore(bear, wolf, panther, lion; eagle, falcon).

The quoted historian claims that the noise of the battle was so intense that feather whistling was practically unheard.


Quote, please. :):):)

And remember, the story of hussaria is 150 years old. Which battle do you mean? :):):):)


Just like your achievements. :):):):):)

No,you are just a touch paranoid and not nearly as proficient in English as you like to think.

Hmm, strange story about the Winged Hussars. I tend to doubt Pawians story. BUT: when you look at the Wiki entry
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hussars

you notice that no claim there is supported by sources... which is pretty strange. And no contemporary painting you see on Wiki shows Winged Hussars in a battle. Really strange.

For over a hundred years, the Poles are struggling with a problem of historical nature , which - uncommon in our country - enlivens both scholars and ordinary bread eaters . As for the wing hussar , actually about whether the hussars had them back or not. It seems that it is not at all about historical truth , but rather of a myth tyczący bright past, extremely difficult to verify , or even to overthrow . What is interesting in all this , its verification are not at all interested scholars , so people not only authorized, but even required to determine the truth. Some of them even today deliberately falsifying history, acting at the same time for patriotic reasons , in order to build the glory of the Polish army in the country , and increasingly abroad. At all recently organized major international exhibitions, to name only the most important here , such as " Under one crown - the history and culture of the times of the Polish- Saxon ", " Eagle and three crowns . The neighborhood of Polish - Swedish Baltic Sea in the modern era, sixteenth to eighteenth centuries . " or " Land of the Winged Horsemen . Art Poland 1572-1764 r . " hussars was presented in Poland and abroad (Germany, Sweden , USA ) as the winged cavalry .


There is an intereting quote, though:

In the 1970s those theories were disproved. When a film adaptation was made of The Deluge, a Polish historical novel, it revealed that the wings attached to the riders' back almost threw them out of their saddles when their horses went faster than a trot (when attached to the saddle they slowed down the horse greatly). Most probably the wings were used only for parades and other special occasions, but probably never in battle.

while the Deluge movie shows the hussaria charge with wings on:

Of course , not .

Why didn`t you read my posts I have given some sources .