Historical look at various civilisational differences between Russia and the West

Recently I came across this very interesting paper by Małgorzata Rudnik from Polish Naval Academy...

ojs.gsw.gda.pl/index.php/NiS/article/view/255/209

... it argues from historical point of view that, among other things:

- Russian civilisation is more traditional compared to the West that broke up with tradition in favour of liberal ideas and so-called modernity;

- the West faces a crisis of degenerate globalism and has lost its advantages and possibility of imposing its values on the rest of the world;

- Russian civilisation includes cultural artefacts that enable changing the world for the better.

The analysis starts from the Antiquity (the differences between Latin and Byzantine civilisations) and continues up to modern times, pointing to the 16th century Reformation as the genuine breaking point between Russia and the West. It also reminds us of Samuel Huntington's identification of key factors of Western identity (Roman Catholicism, feudalism, Renaissance, Reformation, overseas discoveries and colonisation, Englightenment and creation of national states) that Russia by and large missed out on because of centuries of Tatar slavery.

The article is a bit academic and 20-pages long but it is certainly worth reading as it contains several pearls of wisdom, as the below quotation form Saint John Paul II:

"certain values, vital for human life, are less degenerated there than in the West. The conviction that God is the highest guarantor of human dignity and human rights is still alive there. So what it the risk? The risk is in indiscriminate accepting of negative cultural influences widespread in the West". (Jan Paweł II, Pamięć i tożsamość, Kraków 2005)

Well said by the sorely missed and beloved Polish Pope, but let's not forget that the current Pope, whilst calling for peace, is also far from condemning Russia.

Anyways, if you would like to read something a bit different than the mindless pulp served to us by the mainstream media, follow the link and read the article.

I will stick with "So called modernity" - a flushing toilet is warm and nice in the morning

Are human rights and human dignity really better in this paradise that Putin built ?

Yep Maslov's Pyramid. Also Marx was right about the material condition.
I didin't read what kania wrote he crazy.

Oh wait I glanced at it. Do not dare use Samuel Huntington to justify your wild viewpoints. Yeah there is a clash of civilisations, the somewhat civilised euros vs the vodka addled mongolian influenced culture ruskis. Don't dare call them Slavs, they lost their membership card a while back..

Putin is not the point. It is obvious that the current putinist government's actions are detrimental for Russia. It is about more profound look at the Russian idea and the depths of their unique Eastern soul (with, perhaps, some practical future implications). Why does everything have to be about Putin? :-/


These are not my viewpoints but Małgorzata Rudnik's from Polish Naval Academy. If you wish, you can write your academic paper to counter what she said. I will gladly read it too. :)

Samuel Huntington would have been all for crushing russia into the dust as of now.

I never thought I'd laugh at words of John Paul II, but I am now.

Sorry, Kania, but just by reading your summary I can see that this papier is not worth my time.


I have no idea what "cultural artefacts" (???) she has in mind, but RuSSians are clearly too f*cked up not only to change the world for the better, but to change themselves and their country for the better.

Kania, in what kind of La La Land are you living? 🤦

You obviously don't understand theology, it's like philosophy but the higher word is god.

Because he is the manifestation of RuSSian soul.


Or you don't understand why I'm laughing.

Well, I tried.

Sorry for providing you with something interesting, original and different to read than what we are fed with on a daily basis. My f*cking bad.

*pouts*

@paulina


Sounds o.k to me, kania the pathological russophile is just trying to link it to russia. You realise there is a world apart from western europe right? Buddhism, Hinduism etc?

Also orthodox/coptic christians are the OG christians. (But Egypt, Ethiopia, Greece and Lebanon, Iraq etc before russia naturally obv)

Kania isn't "trying" to link it to RuSSia - if I understand it right by "there" John Paul II meant RuSSia.

If he did or if he did not. Karol Józef Wojtyła is a WW2 war hero, who went thorugh some sh*t as a child and teenager, so he's allowed to say what he wants, with his historical biases and perspectives.

Everyone is allowed to say what they want, but people are also allowed to disagree with what others are saying. That includes what John Paul II said.

BS you live in Poland right? You curse John Paul II or spit on his grave, you're gonna get fu*ked up.

Your article suggests that the West has traded materialism for meaning.

It's not an original argument - Gandhi was using it 100 years ago.

Personally I would prefer to stick with at least some of the material benefits of democracy. That's because there is no evidence that the more primitive societies that you lionize promote dignity, human rights, creativity etc.

So John Paul II meant Central-Eastern Europe. You made it look like he just meant RuSSia.

This changes my perception of that quote.

RuSSia and post-Soviet countries are "different animals" in this respect though.

That's only one aspect suggested in the article. Is that all that you got from it?

Oh, well - at least you actually read it. Well done.


I lionize nothing. I merely wanted to move the discussion to a somewhat higher level than "Ruskies - they have no toilets ha ha". :-/


I'm not so sure - he said "podstawowym zagrożeniem dla Europy Wschodniej (...) Tam żywe jest jeszcze", so it looks like he meant Eastern Europe. One way or another he warned us here about the cultural dangers coming from the West not from the East.

But the fact that they have no toilets underlies the insecurities that make them want to portray military might and launch broken space ships

They didn't have the patience or will to build democracy like the Poles or Czechs or Croats or Romanians did. And now they are angry that they became inferior, an afterthought in world affairs and a problem to be managed.

You just wrote that he refered to Central-Eastern Europe twice.


OK then. I think that the fact that RuSSia missed out on Renaissance, for example, is one of the reasons why RuSSia and their people suck so bad. I've discussed this issue with Poles, Russians and RuSSians already though.

So? What now?

...and also to Eastern. Maybe it's just the old confusion as to what people consider Central or Eastern.


A very good question indeed. I think that we need to keep all the historical factors mentioned in the article in mind when we deal with Russia, and be very (and I mean VERY) weary of people who try to dehumanise Russians and portray them as uncultured unwashed barbarians.

Putin will be gone one day but the Russian nation will remain. A brotherly, Slavic nation, who got lost somewhere in the way, wandered too far away from the Slavic camp in their eastward escapade to pursuit wild Mongol frontiers - yes - but a brotherly nation nonetheless. Put that in your collective pipe and smoke it, guys.

@GefreiterKania, have mercy. There's absolutely nothing "brotherly" about RuSSians and never was.


Oh, RuSSians are people all right. It's just that they're sociopaths.

Sounds like ripe lands for a polish-ukranian central european values colonisation...

Tsars were gone and RuSSian nation remained (the same), Stalin was gone and RuSSian nation remained (the same), Putin will be gone and RuSSian nation will remain (the same). Can't you see it, Kania...? I'm afraid the fact that Putin will be gone won't change much or anything really. Because RuSSians will be still the same...

Unf he can't. Because his family was atrocied by OUN-B and Stalin gave Poland the german lands his family now resides on.
Kania seek help! There is a solution!

Don't get me started on Ukrainian values. It's not a good time for it.


Well, to some extent one might argue than nations rarely change. Do you really believe that German or Ukrainian national character have changed so much since WW2? Characters might not change but the conduct of nations under different leaders can change a lot. Hence my hopes for Russia under a different leader.

One way or another, I refuse to accept that Poland and Russia are doomed for eternal enmity. It's inhumane, unchristian and impractical.


What a brilliant, in-depth analysis. You must be one of the all-time most intelligent Australians.

Well let's just listen to the President's own words..

That's something I'm wondering about.


The views and behaviour of Germans and the conduct of Germany as a state clearly changed a lot from that of Nazi Germany. The views, behaviour and mentality of RuSSians and the conduct of RuSSia as a state practically didn't change at all.


I am not all-knowing God and I don't know what will happen in distant future and if RuSSian nation can change or not. I just see what I see and I draw conclusions from both history and the present day reality.

Poland will be able to get along with RuSSia only if RuSSians will change for the better. There's an option that Poland will change for worse and then it will get along with the authoritarian, f*cked up RuSSia, but I wouldn't like to live to such times.

IF they do, if not, we'll eat them up for breakfast.

That's the ongoing russian tragedy (one of them at any rate) they long for the material goods of the west but have no understanding of the institutional infrastructure needed (and no interest in learning).

So... they copy the form but the results are then, predictably, awful.... the best example is how they managed to combine industrialization with famine...

The more current russian tragedy is that they crave respect from western countries but have no understanding of what respect is based on in the west (and don't want to learn).

Germany went from one of the most hated countries in the world to one that is widely respected.... ditto Japan... how did they do that?

russians don't know they just stamp their feet like children and threaten to blow up the party....

Yep, you need form, function, and competence. I think Bauhaus movement had the first two.