Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising?

er,yes;


ie,fight.or panic and run.....anyone who has been in a "real" fight,as oppossed to a bar room punch up, will recognise that to function in a fight you have to play the danger down.....


Not my quotes,having studied the uprising in detail and having met and discussed it with many actual former AK fighters I stay neutral on the rights or wrongs of involving a 1/4 of a million civilians in a pitched battle with no real hope of victory and only relying on your soviet "allies" to save the day.

not relying. but definitely hoping.. PL's allies the UKies and the 'merkins didn't lift a finger either..

How could they have done anything. They were somewhat busy in other parts of the world, or don't you know WWII history? That's not meant as a slam, but I thought your comment was rather pointless.

Scottie is right. The Warsaw Uprising started on 1 August 1944 at 5pm, which is known as Godzina W. We all know that for the British that was Godzina T, so they were busy.

Remind me which nation flew hundreds of supply missions to the Warsaw Uprising. And then tell me how many the airforce which you used to be a member of flew. Typical Pole: "when you can't blame the Jews blame the British".

Ehm... The british asked for permision to land on the soviets airport but were denied right?

Not quite. The Americans and the British asked for permission to use the Soviet airfields (which the US was already using for other missions) to make supply drops. The Soviets refused. Churchill suggested that the Allies send planes anyway, FDR refused. However, the British (along with the South Africans and the Poles) flew hundreds of missions from air bases in Italy (long dangerous flights). The USAAF made a single supply flight when the uprising was clear to fail and the USSR had agreed to allow them to land at a Soviet airbase.

For reasons best known only to them, the Warsaw Uprising museum staff have decided that the refusal of FDR to support Churchill's plan is not worth even mentioning in their vast museum.

No one has mentioned the Jews in respect to the Warsaw Uprising except you. I hope you get over it.

Would be a bit hard to blame the Jews for the Warsaw Uprising being a failure. Which probably explains why Poles like to blame the British instead. You still haven't told me how many supply missions the airforce you used to be a member of flew.

Americans confuse the two, that's if they even know that there were two uprisings. In fact, when asked about the Warsaw Uprising, the usual response is; "yea, that's when the Jews resisted the Germans".

Sorry yo tell you but you are the only one to blame the British for failure of Warsaw Uprising. Poles blame Germans and Russians.

Harry, I took the time to translate and input info that you will not get in your mandatory Holocaust class, which related to the OP. The least you could do is somehow relate to the topic if you want me to comment.

Apparently I'm not: there is a section about the Warsaw Uprising in the Wikipedia article on "Western Betrayal".


And your comment related to British being busy drinking tea related to the topic how exactly?

Man, that's a pretty broadbrush statement. Some of us actually know a little Polish history. Tread softly here.

And if Wiki said so it must be true. I forgot about your Wiki addiction. Totally my fault.

MOderators!


The 100 words + URL is in red. Moderator or Admin. What he or she is referring to is the PF rule #11.


It is clear from the thread that I am posting material that is not available on the net. I translated it from Polish from a book which I site for the purpose of the discussion. I say so a couple of times. The text was not very long. Is this a mistake or censorship? If a mistake, can you aknowledge that and bring the text back as it clearly did not violate the forum rules. Thank you.

any missing text was probably deleted. the whole post would have been moved otherwise.

if you provide a summary of the text, it might be possible to re-insert it into the original post.

however, i can't promise this.

Yea but it's changing slowly they're starting to write and make documentary films about it more..

Why would I now summerize what took considerable effort to translate in the first place and is not on the web at all.


Shall I ask the boss then?

Put the text on the net, to make them happy, and provide link here. I'd like to read it. One way is mediafire. If you have Polish version scanned or transcribed, put them there too, please.

A summary would be missing the point completely. Some direct quotes not so.


Eleven, Harry. Eleven missions, less than 200 sorties. Eleven is 11% of one hundred. Hundreds of missions is your typical harryish take on Polish history and on the way Poles whine about the Allies.

Looks like you'd better go and edit Wikipedia: at the moment it doesn't support your lies. The section on airdrops says "The total weight of allied drops varies according to source (104 tons,[95] 230 tons[94] or 239 tons[14]), over 200 flights were made."

But before you go and edit Wikipedia to suit your lies, you'd better understand that to remove the truth you'll also have to hack the website of the Warsaw Rising Museum because it says "Allies make about 200 flights over Warsaw."

At the moment, Wiki does support my claims, as does the WRM website.

'In addition to ammunition, oil and crew, the Liberator could carry a further disposable load of 2,600 pounds (1,180 kg) which was made up of petrol and payload.'

So it's, let's be generous, a ton of payload per flight. Seems the Wiki agrees with the Warsaw museum, and both got it right. Roughly 200 tons, rougly 200 flights. Means sorties, Harry, just as I said, a sortie being A flight of a combat aircraft on a mission. Not a mission, Harry, but one aircraft flying. They did it 11 times, sending about 200 planes in total, in those 11 missions. Eleven missions, Harry, not hundreds of missions.

You were lying, again, and then trying to slander you opponent, again. Mods?

Oh, forget it.

I'll listen to men who actually flew missions and sorties to tell me what the words mean. And guess what: they say that you're a liar. Mission Sortie Designation.

Care to to quote what they say? At your leisure :)


Quote them.

No they not. You are lier sorry double lier. 1st they didn't say he is lier and 2nd they didn't have 200 missions.

Certainly "I was a Navigator in the 455th Bomb Group 15th AAF stationed at a former country estate called San Giovanni a few miles outside of Cerignola, Italy from January to July 1944 when I finished my "50 mission" tour with 35 combat "sorties" (15 of them were considered "doubles")."

So in reality a 'mission' is less than a 'sortie'. But you claimed that "Eleven missions, less than 200 sorties.". Looks like you were lying, yet again.

You are piece of lie. They did not fly over the Warsaw


Powstanie warszawskie 1 sierpnia - 3 października 1944
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powstanie_warszawskie

You can't compare two totally different situation.
Twisted lier

Harry-Traitor admit you are twisted lier :-)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flax

From that point on missions consisted of three P-40 Squadrons covered by one Spitfire squadron
a mission, four squadrons, less than one sortie, 'in reality'.

31stfightergroup.com/historical_31st/wwii309fs.html

For their second mission of the day the 309th flew with Nos. 81 and 131 squadrons

A mission, three squadrons, which is less than one aircraft, 'in reality'.

During the last mission of the day the squadron intercepted 7 FW-190s

A mission ('less that one aircraft') intercepting 7 Fockewulfs. 'In reality' :)

Harry in reality. Carry on, boy. :)

That example doesn not explain a whole lot. It does suggest though that there can be one sortie used for multiple missions. For instance, a plane takes off, bombs city A (first mission), on its way back, via a different route, takes aerial photographs of an area (second mission).

But why complicate it?
The definition is clear and simple:
Sortie is a term for deployment or dispatch of one military unit, be it an aircraft, ship, or troops from a strongpoint. The sortie, whether by one or more aircraft or vessels, usually has a specific mission.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortie

Hence, there can be a sortie without a mission, but there cannot be a mission without at least one sortie. A group of planes, say 10, participate in the same mission. That one, single mission required 10 sorties.

Ergo, the alleged "hundreds" of missions the Brits flew to try to help the Warsaw Uprising is hogwash.

Please get back on topic or start a new thread


A little late with this comment. It was due a few posts before mine.

Oh, and thank you for the swift action.

Why you think?...Jews were involved in the one...Jews run the media, and are powerful in controlling educational materials.