Hi, I was wandering if anyone can help me. My father was in Siberia during the war and as so many of our fathers, grandfather etc spoke little of his experiences. I have tracted my father's side quite easily in Poland as we already had letters and therefore an address. His name was Marjan Zielony. I was told ,during my first visit to Poland that my grandmother was orignally from the Ukraine . Her surname was Paterucha, I have searched but I am unable to locate any records etc. I understand that after the war my grandfather was told that he would have to become a Russian citizen if he wished to stay in the Urakine after Churchill had sold the Poles out and the border was changed. He refused, as many Poles did and moved the family accross the border back into Poland. Does anyone know any reliable researchers in the Ukraine, the Lvow area who may be able to help me trace my grandmothers family ? Almost forgot, I was also told that some of my grandmother's family moved to the USA between the frst and second world war.
HI, I don't think this will help much, but... I wonder if the surname was really Paterucha and not Pietrucha. I have never heard a surname Paterucha, but know some Pietruchas in Poland. By the way pietrucha is an augmentative form of pietruszka (parsley).
Polish and ukrainians are not exactly the same thing, one group west slavic and the other east slavic. However, both poles and ukrainians are very close ethnically. Both poles and ukrainians most likely share very common ancient roots, and are closer than they are to russians. The only reason ukraine is so mistaken for part of russian culture, was because of the long russian oppression of that land. I also believe that poles and ukrainians have alot of irani blood from the scythians and sarmatiins, which lived in ukraine and south eastern poland.
Poles and ukrainians also mixed, mostly in the west during the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth. Many ukrainians, including some of my best friends, are part polish. I am polish, and I also notice some poles with distand ukrainian hertitage, due to eastern poles who fled ukraine during the cossak uprisings, russian expansion, and tatar raids.
Thus, poles and ukrainians are very close, ethnically, and to some significan't degree culturally. support this. Genetically, the closest relives to the Polish are ukrainians, croatian and hungarians. (Hungarians due to possible shared scythian heritage).
ZIELONY: Polish for green; might have originated as a toponymic nick for someone from Zielonka or similar; it could have also bene the Polonised version of the German/Yiddish name Grün which at times is Polonised as Gryn or Gryń.
PATERUCHA: root is Latin pater (father); bits of prayer or liturgical formulae were the basis of Polish surnames of people connected with the church (sextons, organists, etc.). These include Pater, Dominus, Nobis, Sekuła (saecula), Pleban, Kościelny, Klecha, Kleryk, etc. The -ucha is an augmentative suffix which may express disdain or other negative sentiments.
I know they cram that into your heads in that progressive schools of yours, but everything you written it is just a politically-correct bullshit. And let's face it - you have no knowlege of history, no knoledge of human genome, no knowledge of cultural heritage and how far back it really goes. Don't cut in into disscusions you have no knowledge to take part in.
Ukrainians are genteic mix between criminal Poles, Russians , poor farmers and Tatars and Turks.
Why only criminal Poles? Mostly it were Polish nobles and army veterans who attempted to colonize Ukraine during the centuries. Some traders, farmers and city dwellers as well. On average Ukrainians look more "Pontid" than Poles what may point to some ancient Balkan influx. Poles may have more German admixtures while some Ukrainians some Scandinavian. At least there are some Ukrainians who look quite Nordic. Also I agree on some Turkic admixtures. Not too bad though. Modern Turkey (the largest Turkic state) is doing quite well.
@Vlad1234 Criminal could mean many things back then, one only had to back the wrong political group, then had to flee. Ukraine was the only option for that back then, land of absolute freedom from any state prosecution.
Like... There are loads of Ukrainians going in to Poland now, not Turkey. And those who go to Poland for EU possibilities, seem to settle in Poland regardless. Stable freedom is allways wished for if able to maintain it and being able to adapt to it.
Even tho there are factions in Poland, it's more of a democratic nature then the one in Ukraine with Oligarchs. Oligarchs gotta step up their game!
@Vlad1234 Something is wrong in Ukraine! It's not being managed at all or it's mismanaged! Why else would people emigrate from there? Roads need to be repaired/build. Cities developed, schools given priority, labour at the farms etc
I can imaging the following reasons. 1) Ukraine experienced huge negative selection and high-quality population losses due to wars, genocides, repressions and immigration. Poland as well, but probably slightly less. As a result criminals took over in society. 2) After USSR breakdown Ukraine lost 70% of its manufacturing and still struggles to find its place or at least survive on the very competitive World market. Poland should be too, but it received large investments and loans by EU lines. Not so Ukraine. In order to recover, probably, Ukraine needs to implement 1) A large scale eugenics program like mass cloning of the best native Ukrainians (by standards of moral and talent). 2) Ask other countries to help crack down on corruption. 3) Enter EU or create confederacy with Poland (what is basically the same thing) and ask other countries about "Marshal Plan".
Main reason is only one: Poland has been lucky as it is closer to Western Europe, so the transfer and implementation of Western ideas how to create and run a democratic country was easier. Ukraine is closer to Russia with obvious results - 1/4 Ukraine thinks they should belong to Russia.
Democracy does not work well in the EU considering Poland has surrendered her sovereignty to Germany and England. This was Hitler's dream. All these immigrants flooding into Europe, - a decoy.
The real center of Europe should be Poland Lithuania and Ukraine.
Democracy works well with an educated population that has knowledge and are politically conscious... The less it is, the easier it is to have it AS a Republic where representatives (experts/elite) do iinstead of the population and in extreme cases of neglect/low education dictatorship/kingdom
Also courage, unification, organizational skills, mutual aid, morality. Where do you think courageous, politically conscious and moral people from Eastern Europe went after WWI, citizenship war in Russia, Holodomor, purges, WWII, etc., and especially the latest 30 years of the criminal takeover and social collapse? Survivors went to immigration and work abroad.
According to some claims around 60% of Poles and 50% of Ukrainians carry R1a haplogroup (the most common Slavic haplogroup). The second most common among both is I1b, which originated likely somewhere on the territory which is now Croatia. Ukrainians have slightly more of it. Also Poles have more R1b than Ukrainians (typical to Celtic origins), while Ukrainians have more E3b, J, G (which are common in Southern Europe, Balkans, Middle East and North Caucasus). Also Ukrainians have just a bit of N1 (typical to Finno-Hungarians and Baltic people) and even such exotic haplogroup as Q which is most common among Amerindians. I'm puzzled where is it from in Ukrainians...
Why only 60 and 50%? Shouldn`t it be close to 100%?? Rabid nationalists in both countries speak about true Poles and true Ukrainians all the time. Shouldn`t they start testing people`s DNA to find out who is or isn`t true?
Why only 60 and 50%? Shouldn`t it be close to 100%??
Why it should? There is probably no Slavic nation in which R1a is close to 100%. Russians and Belorussians have around 45%. Poles have more than others at 60%.
