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Help Translating 1880s Marriage Bann (Chicago - Polish)


AugustaBlvd 1 | 3
10 Apr 2023 #1
Hello, I need help translating / understanding the attached marriage bann (2 images). This is a document from an 1880s Chicago wedding at St. Stanislaus Kostka catholic church between my 2nd-great grandparents - both recent Polish immigrants to the US at the time.

I had to cut the file in half per groom/bride to meet the size requirements, but I'm really just trying to understand the format of this bann in order to identify their origins, as as well as who their parents or guardians listed were. In particular the bride..

As I learned from my mom, they came from 'the German part of Poland', so I'm assuming former Prussian territory if that helps since they migrated around 1881.

I would greatly appreciate any quick translation help with this, as well as links to any trusted professionals or resources.

Thank you!


  • Marriage Bann - Groom

  • Marriage Bann - Bride
Atch 20 | 4,151
10 Apr 2023 #2
Hard to understand the handwriting.

Basically it says that the groom is living with his parents and the bride is living with her aunt.

It seems that the groom's parents were Michal and possibly Francziska. Surname is Golinski. The groom was born in Pelplin.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelplin

The bride's parents I can't make out. Looks like father's name might be Francys. Mother could be Karolina. I'm afraid I can't decipher the place of birth.

Witnesses are Michal Golinkski and Andrzej Szulc (?) or Szule.

Hope that's some help to you.
Looker - | 1,130
10 Apr 2023 #3
Minor spelling mistakes:

Francziska

Franciszka

Francys

Franciszek more likely

Szulc (?) or Szule

Szulc for me.

The first name on the second file is Antonina Dudzik (born in Racibórz?)
Atch 20 | 4,151
11 Apr 2023 #4
Racibórz?

Don't think so. What's that long tale after the second letter? It looks more like R - g or R - f. Don't see how you're getting Rac from it. I'm not sure that's a 'z' on the end either. Looks more like 'n'.

Dudzik

One of the big problems with this handwriting is that the scribe seems to alternate between two forms of the letter 'z'. The old fashioned 'z' has a squiggly tail on it and you can see it quite clearly in some words but on others it appears to be an ordinary 'z'.

Szulc for me.

Yes, I agree. A Polish spelling for Schulz possibly?
Alien 21 | 5,264
11 Apr 2023 #5
If not "Racibórz" then perhaps "Ruski Bór" in East Prussia.
Feniks
11 Apr 2023 #6
Don't see how you're getting Rac

I admit the third letter doesn't look like a 'c' but I think that Looker may be right and perhaps that letter is a mistake.

I'm not sure that's a 'z' on the end either.

If it's Racibórz, then I think the final letter should be 'u' as in 'w Raciborzu ' just as in the groom's birthplace 'w pelplinie' for Pelplin.

The word 'przy' is mentioned on the second lines in both photos. Look at how the rz combination is written. It looks very like what could be the rz in Racibórz.

The writing's terrible though and it could be something else entirely!
Atch 20 | 4,151
11 Apr 2023 #7
"Ruski Bór

Interesting suggestion but there's no 'k' that I can see.

It looks very like what could be the rz in Racibórz.

Feniks you're quite the detective. I think you're right! This is fun, isn't it? I hope the OP comes back to enjoy the fruits of our combined labours :)
Lenka 5 | 3,522
11 Apr 2023 #8
In those times Racibórz would have been known as Ratibor
Atch 20 | 4,151
11 Apr 2023 #9
Officially yes, but would the locals of Polish origin maybe have called it Racibórz?? The marriage banns were drawn up in Chicago so they didn't have to use the German spelling.
Lenka 5 | 3,522
11 Apr 2023 #10
I asked a historian from that region but not sure if he will respond as he's pretty eccentric and sometimes goes into 'if you can't find the answer yourself you don't deserve to know it' mode.

The overwhelming majority was German so not sure if the Polish version would be popular.
OP AugustaBlvd 1 | 3
11 Apr 2023 #11
OP here -
Wow, first of all, a sincere THANK YOU to everyone here. This is my first post, and I greatly appreciate all of your quick and thoughtful responses to this! I'm new to this research process, and do not have any Polish language skills outside of google translator (although I studied German in school), and I found it challenging to translate some of these words because of the handwriting- so I really appreciate the breakdowns here!

I was able to find that the groom - 'Frank' Golinski (and his father) were originally from the village of Klonowka, Pomerania, which is located just outside Pelplin. (German: Klonowken, Preußich Stargard, Westpreußen).

I wish I had more information to share about Antonina to help identify this town/area, but unfortunately this is the best source that I've found on her potential birthplace. I can add that in her US census records- she indicated 'Ger-Polish' as her birthplace, and later just 'Poland/Polish' starting in the 1920 census. She listed 1881 as her immigration year, and their wedding was in January 1885, so this banns was probably published in 1884 if that helps with any of the German/Polish language timeline.

I've attached a picture of her for fun (taken in Chicago during her later years, year unknown).

Thank you again for all of your help! And please let me know if your friend has any insights on this, I'll keep digging for more information myself and share anything I find that could help.

AB


  • Antonina, Chicago, date unknown
Atch 20 | 4,151
13 Apr 2023 #12
How lovely to have a pic of your great-grandmother :) Have you checked passenger manifests to see if you can find her entry into the US and any other information there?
Feniks
13 Apr 2023 #13
you're quite the detective.

I like a challenge!

checked passenger manifests

I've looked but can't find anything. They came too early for Ellis Island records but I can't find anything in Castle Garden records either. It would help if we knew the point of entry.

I've found a birth record for Marta Golinski, the daughter of an Antonina Dudzik and Frank Golinski, born in 1887. It gives the estimated years of birth for Antonina ( 1863 ) and Frank ( 1859 ).

familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NQ5B-Z23

I can't find their marriage record though.

What is really strange though and could be totally unconnected is that I found a marriage record for a Francizk Golinski and Josephine Dudik. Both these people have the same birth years as Antonina and Frank in the other record, and were married in St Stanislaus church that the OP mentioned on January 26th 1885, Their ages at the time of marriage are 26 and 22, the same as in the OP's images.

familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N76N-QQG
Lenka 5 | 3,522
14 Apr 2023 #14
My historian said it's 100% not Racibórz. Didn't offer any other help :/
gumishu 14 | 6,297
17 Apr 2023 #15
@Lenka

Franiczek Goliński was born in Pelplin ('urodzony w Pelplinie') - the only Pelplin I know is near Gdańsk - Antonina Dudzik seems to be born in a place called Roscibórz (although my quick Google search hasn't found any such place)
Miloslaw 20 | 4,837
17 Apr 2023 #16
Roscibórz

It's in upper Silesia.
gumishu 14 | 6,297
18 Apr 2023 #17
Roscibórz (or Rościbórz) is not Racibórz - it's Racibórz which is in Upper Silesia - I haven't found any Ros(/ś)cibórz to be honest but this what the written documents seem to indicate
OP AugustaBlvd 1 | 3
27 Apr 2023 #18
Hi Everyone - OP here again...

I wanted to check-in, and post about some of my findings. Again, I really appreciate everyone's feedback and help with this! Every comment here has in some way informed how I've been approaching this research.

After spending some time looking through Polish village names, and researching other Dudzik families in Chicago around this time period, I was able to find a town that looks quite similar to what was written in the marriage banns - Włościbórz.

This village is located in the modern-day Kuyavian-Pomeranian Voivodeship. If anyone uses the geneteka website - I found what could be a marriage record between Antonina's parents - Franz and Carolina Orżada in 1862. The location lists the Wałdowo parish, which is very close to Włościbórz.

This website didn't yield any confirmation about Antonina, but most of the census records put her birth date between 1862-5, so their marriage date seems to work out. I also know this site is pretty streaky with records, so I will look elsewhere.

...what do you all think?? I'm very open to hearing what anyone thinks and receiving some objective feedback!

Link below for marriage 'record': (screenshot attached as well)

geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=S&search_lastname=Dudzik&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1862&to_date=1862



Atch 20 | 4,151
28 Apr 2023 #19
quite similar to what was written in the marriage banns - Włościbórz.

It seems unlikely to me. The place named in the marriage banns starts with a very clearly written capital 'R'. I wonder if a map from the period might help? Perhaps the place no longer exists as a separate village but did back in the 1860s?
Feniks
28 Apr 2023 #20
It seems unlikely to me.

Me too. Definitely looks like an 'R' as the first letter.

The location lists the Wałdowo parish, which is very close to Włościbórz.

There are 5 villages with that name in Poland, 2 in the Kuyavian-Pomeranian Voivodeship.
The one nearest to Włościbórz is this one:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa%C5%82dowo,_S%C4%99p%C3%B3lno_County

There is another one that is slightly nearer to Klonowka, Pomerania:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa%C5%82dowo,_%C5%9Awiecie_County
OP AugustaBlvd 1 | 3
16 Oct 2023 #21
Hi Everyone!

I know it's been many months since I posted here, but I wanted to circle back in light of some new findings as I think they answer some questions regarding my quest to learn where my second great grandmother Antonina Dudzik was from. Warning - this is a long story, but i've tried to be as succinct as possible, and i've attached several images as evidence.

Recently I was able to find evidence of my great-great grandmothers arrival in the United States. I was always told she had immigrated with her sister, and this record supports that noting her being accompanied by Josephine Dudzik, who is listed as 23 years old (5 years older than her). The date of their arrival in 1881 is supported by US census records for Antonina.

With this information, I was able to find an Illinois marriage record for Josephine, and further searched the records of St. Stanislaus Kostka (antonina's church) to find a proper marriage entry from her 1882 marriage to John Pienkowski.

Unlike the banns for Antonina's marriage, I was lucky to find the actual marriage record (see attached), and this document is much more legible. To me, it clearly shows that Josephine's parents are: Franciscus (Dudzik) and Antonina Fifielska, with her hometown as Włościbórz.

While I was happy to see the hometown matched my expectations, I was surprised that the parents clearly didn't match, as (my) Antonina's mother was listed as Carolina Ozadow* in the marriage banns. My first thought was that maybe it was a typo because of Antonina's name being the same, or that they were cousins, so I rechecked some information I had found on the Polish site Geneteka for the Włościbórz area, which is part of the Waldowo Parish (Kuyavian-Pomeranian Voivodeship).

I found proof of two marriages in the Waldowo parish - the first between Franciscus and Antonina in 1845, and then another between Franz (Franciscus) and Carolina Orzada in 1862. Presuming the ages of Josephine and (my) Antonina were correct (born in 1858 and 1863 respectively) - it seemed like this verified the general hometown location, and parental history, but didn't really solve the relationship aspect.

So then I went ahead and checked the death records, finding an entry in 1861 for Antonina Dudzik. This was 1 year before Franz's marriage to Carolina Orzada in 1862, and 2 years before the birth of (my) Antonina in 1863. To me, this solidified that Franz had remarried after the death of his first wife, thus Jospehine was (my) Antonina's half-sister and she was probably named in honor of the first wife.

I also did find evidence on Family Search that supports that Antonina probably died giving birth to an Elisabeth Dudzik in 1861. Antonina died in August, and Elisabeth later in September.

So in conclusion, while I have never found birth records for (my) Antonina or Josephine, based on all of this other evidence, it looks like they were half sisters, and were probably from Włościbórz.

Apologies again for the long story, but I wanted to circle back and show appreciation to those of you whom had helped me in this project! I have truly appreciated all of your feedback and expertise as I have just been finding my way. I also hope sharing this was interesting, and gives some sense of closure. Or if you're not convinced, or feel that i'm missing something - feel free to add comments too :)

Cheers
AB

EDIT - this wont post the images I attached from geneteka, so here are links to the marriages and death records:

geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=S&search_lastname=Dudzik&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1840&to_date=1865&rpp1=&ordertable=

geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=02kp&rid=D&search_lastname=Dudzik&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1861&to_date=1861


  • 1881 Arrival

  • 1882 Marriage Josephine Dudzik
Ziemowit 14 | 4,201
19 Oct 2023 #22
An interesting story. I admire your perserverance in finding out all this!

It seems that the scribe heard "w Rościborze" where they had told him "we Włościborze". Pelplin and Włościbórz are quite apart, so he must have been unfamiliar with the latter toponym.
Atch 20 | 4,151
19 Oct 2023 #23
It seems that the scribe heard "w Rościborze" where they had told him "we Włościborze".

Hi there Ziem :) Nice to see you back these days. That's a brilliant piece of insight into the confusion about the place name. I couldn't understand how he got an R out of Włościbórz.

@AugustaBlvd that's a wonderful piece of research you did. You show typical Polish dogged persistence in the face of apparently insurmountable odds :)) You really are to be congratulated. Researching Polish family history is not a straightforward business, very difficult and you did a great job - Gratulacje!
Ziemowit 14 | 4,201
19 Oct 2023 #24
Researching Polish family history is not a straightforward business,

Speaking of ancestors, and a on a side note, I have watched a documentary on the Vikings in Ireland yesterday. There have been plenty of documentaries on them lately on channels like Planete+, Viasat History or National Geographic, so I have become a little bored with the subject, but that one was really good. Amazing history showing a lot of Viking heritage in Ireland. The Irish people have now up to 20% of Norwegian ancestry in their blood! Also, the documentary showed several town names in the south of Ireland originating from the Scandinavian languages (one of them is Cork). And lastly, tremendous archeological findings from the Viking era in the very centre of Dublin!


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