All Future Polish Genealogy Researchers: Please Read before you start a thread

Hello, its so nice of you to visit Polishforums.com and we would all love to help you, but are limited to what we can help

you with.

Before you ask/Create a Thread about your ancestor. Read Below.

Have you visited Ancestry.com?
Have you visited Family History Center?
Have you visited Ellis island?

If the Answer is yes then Read Below

Before you ask Questions to the forum Members, please Know that the information you provide is what
Helps those who are interested in helping you find your ancestors.

Meaning~> Have you provided Names and Places of birth? Local Parish they might have attended , names
of siblings * if able* . Any and All information Pertaining to this individual/s you are researching is also helpful
to those trying to help you locate your family.

We all know how frustrating and hard genealogy can be. it is equally hard for us to help you without this information and
might result in no response to your post. We dont want that to happen.

Thanks for Understanding and Good Luck in all your searches.
Polish forum Members/Fellow Researchers.

Just a FYI

For those researching the US 1940 Cencus will be online on Ancestry.com its well worth the money if you cannot find
your ancestors in other websites.

I think you should also mention that the person asking for help should first trace back their existing family history and be absolutely sure on spelling, if at all possible. Since sometimes people come on here and aren't even sure how to spell the name.

And please don't tell us that your ancestors were born in Poland if they lived in the area between 1772 and 1919. Genealogy is about historical facts, not fiction and wishful thinking.

Partitioned Poland was still Poland but under foriegn occupation. That is the fact. My great-grandparents were born in occupied Poland.

So, to clarify, bc I am not aware of what was discussed, people should list the occupying country of that time in their inquiry, yes? Which, putting aside pride, is what would be on documents and therefore, what the searching party would need to know? Am I correct?

Misinterpretation of history, bending facts, or wishful thinking has no place in genealogy. If you start doing that you will never understand the political and social environment of the time.

Most immigration documents for example list the country of origin, not the ethnicity, so yes - nationality is important.

Got it. Thanks for clarification.

The First Partition of Poland, which the Poles proved incapable of resisting, was decided on August 5, 1772. Two decades later, Russian and Prussian troops entered Poland again and the Second Partition was signed on January 23, 1793. Austria did not participate in the Second Partition. The Third Partition of Poland took place on October 24, 1795, as soon as the Polish Kościuszko Uprising was defeated. With this partition, the independent Polish state ceased to exist.[1]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

so in between the Partitions taking place Poland was still Poland until the had fully taken over by the third Partition.

yes, lets base our findings on facts , between 1772 and 1795 Prior to Polands defeat your ancestors did live in What was called
POLAND until the third Partition and so all we need now is a area Map showing which Partitions were no longer considered Poland
From those dates up until Oct 24, 1795.

but Now it hit me why so many Polish left,, I will use this in my own family history book.

As a result of the Partitions, Poles were forced to seek a change of status quo in Europe.[13][14] Polish poets, politicians, noblemen, writers, artists, many of whom were forced to emigrate (thus the term Great Emigration) became the revolutionaries of the 19th century, as desire for freedom and liberty became one of the defining parts of Polish romanticism.

a Summed up version is : Europe screwed them over!

It depends at what time Poland lost territory and wether your ancestors lived in that area or not. Polish lands that came to Prussia after the first partition for example cannot be counted as Poland anymore. Territory that was annexed by Russia after the second partition was not part of Poland anymore from that moment on. The where and when is important.

For those who are searching their families from United States of America.

You can look up all states you think your relatives may be living back then or now. Good Luck!

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_American

Today I gathered Much info on members of my family, & I never knew of, (or ), known any of them. Sad & true, & I don't know why. That's not the concern here. I do need help on maiden /married names for the females, and aside from Wloclawak, where in Poland are we from. On my Grandfather Walter's papers, it states he's from Poland/Russia.....? What does that mean? I need to now of his wife, my Grandma Helen....i.e. Maiden name Birthplace etc. Also Walters parents are John & Mary Szymanski, stating they are both from Germany. Answer that for me plz.! Thx.!!! They started here in N.Y. w/MANY children.

Poland was divided up into three partitions or occupation zones ruled by Russia, Prussia and Austria from the late 1700s until 1918. It becmae a kibn of shortcut to speak of Russian Poland, Prussian or German Poland and Austrian or Austro-Hungarian Poland. The latter was also referred to as Galicja.

Historically wrong, no matter how hard you try to rewrite history. The Polish territory was annexed by the three nations and the whole world acknowledged that status quo. Well, except for Turkey that is ... which was probably waiting for their own chance to invade...

How technically would you consider the genealogical sources of the period of Duchy of Warsaw that existed between 1709 and 1815? Would they be: Russian, Prussian or Austrian?



Territory and flag of the Duchy of Warsaw

You mean between 1807 and 1815.


Genealogy should be completely neutral and free of politically motivated thinking (for example: the Duchy of Warsaw is not Poland, Prussia is not Germany). You simply file your ancestors under the name of the territory they were living in at the given time.

Fallacy of false attribution.

Polonius is correct. Poland was partitioned and occupied. This was done against the will and without the consent of Poland, thus there was no legitimacy. The mere fact that foreign powers 'acknowledged' matters is not in any way proof of same, and is as false as me saying that I now own your property and it is mine because some of my friends agree that it is now mine.

No consent for being conquered and annexed? Snicker ...
Since when are the weaker ones asked whether they want to become part of a larger and stronger empire? If we would follow your argument we would have to come to the conclusion that the Roman and British Empires (for example) were totally illegitimate and everything they stood for was pure evil. Well, the world doesn't work like that as we all know. Even if some nationalists of Polish descent would like to convince us of the opposite... :)

Fallacy of false analogy.


Straw man fallacy.

Now, how about addressing the real issue at hand, and without the cheek, fallacious commentary or thought terminating cliches.

So you should have written (bearing your detailed accuracy in mind): the Polish territory was in the course of the time between 1772 and 1919 annexed by the four nations [these having been (1) Russia, (2) Prussia, (3) Austria and (4) the Duchy of Warsaw]. Am I right in my thinking?

Nonsense, Dan, and you know it. Conquering and annexing territory has been a human trait since the times we lived on trees. You cannot seriously claim that expanding your own empire at the expense of another country is fine and normal as long as we don't talk about Poland. Poland disappeared from the maps and nobody cared - simple as that and nothing out of the ordinary. It happened a million times before over the centuries.


Some parts of Poland were annexed by Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary, with Napoleon installing a puppet state of the French Empire for a short period of time.

It wasn't nothing. One example of that happening.

The Romans adding Greece to their republic in 146 B.C.

Ancient history do not apply here. We are talking about established major Christan country in Europe. I think that after middle ages the partition of Poland has been an event without precedence. I don't even think that countries concerned planned that this way but once they started there were certain dynamics involved that made that happened. \It was beginning of imperial era and of building and maintaining colonies, of the world without Christan values prevailing and without Papacy as a moral and political arbiter.

In short a new bold world without self restraint and without morality to guide its policies.
Slavery become attractive again and tyranny became an attractive option.
The world heralding progress regressed to a deep well of immorality dressed as the rule of reason. Fact the world progressed materially but became a moral pigsty to even the ground for Soviets and Nazi's.

Ukraine disappeared from the maps (with a little help from her neighbours).

I would like to add that probably it is not fair to count Russia an Prussia as European countries. They both were oddities in Europe.

As for Austria that Germanic mountain kinglet can be regarded as a vulture among countries. Set on its Alpine perch and watching for the right time to snatch a carcass from stronger predators.

If you talk about Poland completely disappearing from the European maps, I agree. The simple annexation of territory was nothing out of the ordinary in Europe, though. Alsace-Lorraine and the like come to mind.

Come back when you are able to have a serious discussion here.


That is what I'm talking about.

Austria. Czechoslovakia. Estonia. Latvia. Lithuania. Montenegro.

The list is endless. Trying to (yet again) spread the myth that only Poland has suffered is utter nonsense.


The Kingdom of Montenegro might disagree.


Can't say that Harry, it might imply that Poland sold people.

Can you elaborate? The National Assembly of Podgorica and the union with Serbia are not really comparable, if I understand the Wikipedia article correctly.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Montenegro#World_War_I
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Uprising

I think, unless I've got my history mixed up - that National Assembly was a puppet parliament.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podgorica_Assembly