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Polish DNA? Poles have the most genes in a group includes Balts, Macedonians and Greeks.


convex 20 | 3,978
18 Oct 2010 #61
Once again Where's Oder River then? Did they miss it somehow?

Odra is Viadua.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
18 Oct 2010 #62
Well here's a map of all the Slavic towns in what's present day Eastern Germany up to Elbe River.
The extent of Slavs in the West.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #63
And that's why Ptolemy's map is so sensational and important.
These slavic settlement show the slavic "Drang nach Westen", not the german "Drang nach Osten", after all it has been the Germans who were pushed back to the west steadily for centuries now.

Everywhere where now Slavs settle settled once Germans.

The propaganda of the agressive Germans and the victimized Slavs is just a slavic myth!
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
18 Oct 2010 #64
Germans who were pushed back to the west steadily for centuries now.

Keep believing that myth if you want, it was always the other way around, anyway to get back to the topic of this thread read the link I provided in my first post it proves this point.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #65
Keep believing that myth if you want,

Contrary to you we have the proof, Ptolemy's map!
We don't need any propaganda...or selfmade hypothetical claims...

:)
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
18 Oct 2010 #66
What you have is a very inaccurate map with a Myth build around it, most of it written in the beginning of 20 th century.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #67
Nope...we have an 1800 year old map by one of the most famous ancient cartographers which is about to bust some dear myths!
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
18 Oct 2010 #68
Look where the Slavs are 2000 years back...still much further East!

This dubious map seems to prove that many ancients lumped slavs in with Germans. Other errors also abound.
spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,720513,00.html

From the link: "...the data the ancient geographer used is distorted. Errors of scale crept in as he transcribed the Earth's sphere to the flat plane of a map. Ptolemy believed the northern lands to be narrower and more elongated than they are and bent Jutland in Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein in Germany too far to the east."

One can only imagine how inaccurate the guesswork was.

"The Berlin-based team pored over the recalcitrant data for six years, working together to develop a so-called "geodetic deformation analysis" that would help to correct the map's mistakes."

Wonder what a Warsaw based team would find?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #69
This dubious map seems to prove that many ancients lumped slavs in with Germans.

Nothing dubios about it but a clear map...and he seems very able to differentiate between the Germanics and the Sarmatians! ;)

Wonder what a Warsaw based team would find?

I think they will get access to the map if they ask for it....it's no secret!

The whole bruhaha just started...there will be alot written about this sensational findings in the coming years.
Many stats have to be rewritten in the history books...for example alot of german towns are 1000 years older than previously thought.

PS: Yeah...I can understand the need to deny these new findings by some slavic nationalists but hell...who cares!
As long as the mainstream history accepts this map and it's inclinations we all can live with your denial :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #70
What you have is a very inaccurate map with a Myth build around it

Oh c'mon man, anyone can see the river Vistula on it. The shapes here and there might be inaccurate but the river is clearly shown on the map.

The Russian occupation time in Poland is over. Poland is a free and a much better country now. No need to stick to the old communist history and geography. You guys are free now and it's time to open up to the unknown before the 1989 historical facts.

I like Polish people, the only problem I have with you guys here and there is when we're talking about history because you still seem not to let go the old "truth".
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #71
The shapes here and there might be inaccurate but the river is clearly shown on the map.

igg.tu-berlin.de/1381

Nach unserem derzeitigen Kenntnisstand wird eine entzerrte Karte mit einer Genauigkeit - bis auf die Außenregionen - von ca. 6' ~ 10 km für die Punktlage aller antiken Orte erwartet; deren moderne geographische Koordinaten werden in einer Datei aufgelistet (digitale Karte). Ergänzt werden zur besseren Übersicht die digitalen Karten durch einen "Entzerrter Ptolemaios-Atlas der Oikumene", in dem auf je zwei korrespondierenden Karten die Orte und Ortsnamen des Ptolemaios wie die ihnen entsprechenden modernen Städte/Ruinenstätten graphisch dargestellt werden.

Meaning they expect a straightened map with an accuracy of 6 to 10 km for all ancient settlements.

(The scientists worked 6 years on that map to straighten it out, to "hack the code"....if they just wanted to fool the Poles they wouldn't need so much time and hard work)

;)
Marek11111 9 | 816
18 Oct 2010 #72
guesswho:
I like Polish people, the only problem I have with you guys here and there is when we're talking about history because you still seem not to let go the old "truth".

I have no idea where you went to school please stop spreading your propaganda.
maybe you can tell us how many books you read about Polish or German history.

BB stop showing German map in German as some kind of proof.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
18 Oct 2010 #73
Hmmm, I just 'found' an old map in my overstuffed "Lazy Boy" chair. Must be about 2000 years old; shows that pro-Germans originated in Ethiopia but slowly worked their way north by hijacking Egyptian boats and paying off Gypsies to row them. They then intermingled with the native proto slavs along with a few Danes of dubious origin. People who came in contact with them got sick from their germs therefore [they] began calling them Germans.

The Zimmy Institute will investigate this astounding find and will reach the correct conclusions.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #74
propaganda.

Propaganda? lol
To suspect an old Greek who lived almost 2000 years ago to be pro German, is simply ridiculous.

BB stop showing German map in German as some kind of proof.

Ptolemy was a Greek, not a German.

maybe you can tell us how many books you read about Polish or German history

Did you consider for a second that an American might like history and treat it as a hobby? Nope, because you know everything about us, we're all stupid and fat.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #75
I have no idea where you went to school please stop spreading your propaganda.
maybe you can tell us how many books you read about Polish or German history.

Well, one thing is for sure...your children will learn a slightly changed/more real european history than you did!
Ptolemy's map changes alot of statistics and facts....

BB stop showing German map in German as some kind of proof.

Ptolemy wasn't a German!

Hmmm, I just 'found' an old map in my overstuffed "Lazy Boy" chair. Must be about 2000 years old; shows that pro-Germans originated in Ethiopia but slowly worked their way north by hijacking Egyptian boats and paying off Gypsies to row them.

And they hated Slavs and pushed them around for millennia, ja?
Try to publish this map on a slavic forum, they will lap it up!;)
Marek11111 9 | 816
18 Oct 2010 #76
whatever that is even worse you Germans just took someone work and claim or fabricate untruth conclusion, shame on you.

so guesswho how many history books you have red about Poland and Germany?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #77
whatever that is even worse you Germans just took someone work and claim or fabricate untruth conclusion, shame on you.

Yeah...that's why we claim "Ptolemy's map" as "German map" !

Oh Marek, you get more ridiculous by the day...you guys get really desparate.
But that are only the beginning pains...it will get much worse...once the history books get
all their new stats and Ptolemy's map is mainstream knowledge...

Heh:)
Can't wait!
Filios1 8 | 1,336
18 Oct 2010 #78
Ptolemy was a Greek

We don't accept Ptolemy as a Greek. He was a confused Slav who got payed off by the Germanics to produce such a map. Can't say I don't admire the foresight!

And shame on you BB, for believing that a 2000 year old map is 100% accurate. Highly doubtful he even travelled that far north. Most was based on what he heard. Just look where he placed the British Isles, and Scandinavia. It is a very rudimentary map, with 30-40% accuracy at the very most.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #79
so guesswho how many history books you have red about Poland and Germany?

Most likely more than you. At least I don't have any problems to accept the historical truth.

If you believe that you will pull me in your wannabe smart game, you're wasting your time. This won't work even though your IQ is praised to be way over the average, at least that's what I constantly get to hear on this forum.

We don't accept Ptolemy as a Greek. He was a confused Slav who got payed off by the Germanics to produce such a map. Can't say I don't admire the foresight!

At least you're funny :-)
Marek11111 9 | 816
18 Oct 2010 #80
just stop denying it you as Germans have a talent of stilling and falsifying documents that how you ended up with part of Poland and now you try to rob someone else.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #81
We don't accept Ptolemy as a Greek.

Erm...he actually wasn't a Greek but a Roman with egyptian roots who wrote in Greek...
The Romans back than ruled cartography, having the whole roman Empire and stuff.

Ptolemy utilized mainly roman military intelligence....and that have been the best in the ancient times. :)

He was a confused Slav who got payed off by the Germanics to produce such a map. Can't say I don't admire the foresight!

:):):)

Yeah...we were just to smart!

just stop denying it you as Germans have a talent of stilling and falsifying documents that how you ended up with part of Poland and now you try to rob someone else.

We and the roman egyptians actually.

But in the end we never avoid any work and costs to **** our polish neighbours off...our most favourite spare time hobby! :)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #82
just stop denying it you as Germans have a talent of stilling and falsifying documents that how you ended up with part of Poland and now you try to rob someone else.

Who are you talking to?
Marek11111 9 | 816
18 Oct 2010 #83
good thing Hitler did knot know about the trick, he would have produce more maps as proof Africa was Seattle by Germans and America by a twelfth tribe of Germans.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #84
Well...you don't have to believe me Marek but you can't stop it...seriously now.

In a few years you will read Ptolemy's stuff and statistics in every history book, also the polish ones, and there is nothing what you can do about it!

Get used to it....the whole thing just started.
Marek11111 9 | 816
18 Oct 2010 #85
yes i will read it as false document, just like the fake documents are found every day just as it might be good fake it is a fake
Filios1 8 | 1,336
18 Oct 2010 #86
At least I don't have any problems to accept the historical truth

This is the problem though. The historical truth is really not something black or white. The map, was reproduced in the late medievel ages, a time when Germany was expanding into the east, towards *pagan* Poland and Lithuania Commonwealth. They also wanted to get into Prussia. And what better way to legitimize this great crusade to convert and destroy Slavic and Baltic people, than to claim that this land is ancient German land.

Johannes Falkenberg, known as one of the first thinkers/writers to advocate genocide, would have been at the forefront of the crusade.
Look at what he had to say: "the Emperor has the right to slay even peaceful infidels simply because they are pagans (...). The Poles deserve death for defending infidels, and should be exterminated even more than the infidels; they should be deprived of their sovereignty and reduced to slavery."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Falkenberg
Sound familiar?

It's not something new. Find me someone calling for the extermination of Germans, from the Polish side from that period, or from any other period (that is not a complete headcase in mental institute) This man was a dominican theologian! And widely accepted, from the looks of things.

Anyway, the map obviously has is its positive side too. It offers a look, albeit inaccurate, into the names/age of towns from the ancient period. But it could have too easily been fabricated/modified, what have you.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,586
18 Oct 2010 #87
yes i will read it as false document, just like the fake documents are found every day just as it might be good fake it is a fake

Well...nutters never die out! Crowie is that way ---->
;)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #88
This is the problem though. The historical truth is really not something black or white

hat off to you, at least you're trying to stay constructive. It doesn't really matter what we both believe as long as we continue our discussion in a cultural manner.

Thanks for that.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
18 Oct 2010 #89
At least you're funny :-)

Well, it really does help to ease the tension sometimes.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Oct 2010 #90
Very true and it makes you sympathetic too :-)

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