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Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue?


Kapusta 2 | 66  
1 May 2009 /  #211
I smoke weed

Too much of it, it seems.

a women shouldnt get pregnant if she is going to die.

Sometimes they don't know they're going to die UNTIL they get pregnant. Then they find out that to continue with the pregnancy WILL kill them.

to the women that had abortions I hope it haunts you till the day you die and on your last breath feel ashamed and sorry for what you did because you will pay for it.

Have many friends?

You are a very judgmental little individual aren't you. Or are you high on drugs and having a laugh?

I assume you've never had to make a life or death decision then? For the majority of women who have had abortions it's been a heart-wrenching decision, not something they've taken lightly and I hope any woman who has had to make that decision never has to meet you.

Try not to judge too much because it often comes back to bite you.
LAGirl 9 | 496  
1 May 2009 /  #212
No I was married and tried for a baby I know whats its like but never would I make that decision.no I am not high on drugs.no I dont want to meet them either because I be pissed to see them. no it will never happen to me. when I have sex I am careful.I use my head.well if they dont find out till they already are then well I am not sure what to say but why get into a situation. sorry but no baby should suffer of the parents stupidity. and I have the fucken right to judge I am in the USA and we are free people to think judge and speak how we want what country are you in. Abortion is Evil!!!
Kapusta 2 | 66  
1 May 2009 /  #213
but never would I make that decision

What you mean is *so far you've never had to make that decision*.

no it will never happen to me

Good lord. Naive, naive, naive.

when I have sex I am careful.

So NOTHING could ever go wrong?

well if they dont find out till they already are then well I am not sure what to say but why get into a situation.

Pardon? So people are suppose to predict their future now are they?

sorry but no baby should suffer of the parents stupidity.

Yes, having an illness is down to the parents stupidity.

Doctor: Hello Mrs Z, I have to tell you that you are pregnant. Also, in doing that test we found out you have an illness, we can help you but it means aborting the baby.

Mrs Z: But this illness, it's down to the stupidity of me and Mr Z?

Doctor: Why do you ask?

Mrs Z: Well, if it is, I can't abort the child. If it's our stupidity that caused the illness we must try to have the baby.

Doctor: Why?

Mrs Z: No baby should suffer of the parents stupidity.

and I have the fucken right to judge I am in the USA and we are free people to think judge and speak how we want what country are you in. Abortion is Evil!!!

Actually no. You don't have the right to judge. You have the right to free speech, you're right about that. Why not back up that "Abortion is Evil!!!" cry?
LAGirl 9 | 496  
1 May 2009 /  #214
Obviously you are not into children. childhater.
no it hasnt happen to me and now I am done with this thread.
freebird 3 | 532  
1 May 2009 /  #215
I am smart

Someone told you that you're smart and you believe it. You see you can't trust people nowadays there's too many damn liars around. Next time someone will come up with some bull*hit like that just smack him in the face. You're a good girl and keep it that way. You know "abortion is a devil"
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #216
Pani Polska that is the most dumbest thing you can say what the **** is wrong with you what drug are you one. thats disgusting Abortion is ****en evil. Hello people one alternative its called adoption some of you women make me sick.

Where did I say I support abortion? I NEVER SAID THAT. I said we shouldnt be arguing it. Now what is sick, is your severe lack of etiquette and grammar skills. When you type like an adult I will pay attention.

you're a very smart girl and yes we need LOVE :-)

Thank you, you are a sweetheart! all we need is love!!
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
1 May 2009 /  #217
Pani Polska that is the most dumbest thing you can say what the **** is wrong with you what drug are you one. thats disgusting Abortion is ****en evil. Hello people one alternative its called adoption some of you women make me sick.

I agree...Abortion, especially 'convenience abortion' is murder.
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #218
LAGirl:
Pani Polska that is the most dumbest thing you can say what the **** is wrong with you what drug are you one. thats disgusting Abortion is ****en evil. Hello people one alternative its called adoption some of you women make me sick.

I agree...Abortion, especially 'convenience abortion' is murder.

Wow thats great and all but what does it have to do with me? I didnt come out in support for abortion nor did I come out against it. All I said is we need love in the world, leave me out of your theocratic babble
Kapusta 2 | 66  
1 May 2009 /  #219
childhater.

Actually, no I'm not. You also probably assume I am for abortion.

If a woman falls pregnant either by accident or on purpose and can deliver a healthy baby into the world, they should. Even if they are giving the baby up for adoption afterwards.

However, if that pregnancy puts their life in danger then they should be allowed to take steps to prevent that. After all, I'm pretty sure that in a life or death situation YOU'D do anything to save your own life.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #220
it's amazing that men have most to say here...

Yes if you have no reasonable arguments then bring 'man vs woman' scenario. After all feminists know well that men do everything to 'keep woman down'!

but it's woman's mind and body...

Here we go again... New life this is not woman body. According to this logic, mothers could kill even adult children, just the same body several years later.

so stop bulshiting, and stop giving us your pseudo moralistic crap...

Do you even know what 'morality' means?

Believe you me...if men had to carry babies...abortion would have been legal a long time ago.

Even if, their vanity would justify a crime?

Why not back up that "Abortion is Evil!!!" cry?

Although If find this one mentioned exception justified. If this is your position as well, I'm curious why you arguing just with LAgirl? There are several enemies of liberty here...

Where did I say I support abortion? I NEVER SAID THAT. I said we shouldnt be arguing it.

You say so apparently because you find such position comfortable, I don't share this feeling. It does speak something about your views as well.

all we need is love!!

Perhaps this is good slogan if you want to win democratic elections, so empty. If you don't want to talk about this issue, just avoid this thread.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
1 May 2009 /  #221
Pani Polska that is the most dumbest thing you can say what the **** is wrong with you what drug are you one. thats disgusting Abortion is ****en evil. Hello people one alternative its called adoption some of you women make me sick

You know I was going to verbally abuse you, but I was brought up well and one thing my parents always told me is never to make fun of or abuse the retarded.
freebird 3 | 532  
1 May 2009 /  #223
love

love, love, love :-)
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #224
You say so apparently because you find such position comfortable, I don't share this feeling. It does speak something about your views as well.

When it comes to something as complicated as abortion, it is not black and white, I dont want to see women forced into back alleyways. Would I have one myself? No. Do I think other women should given specific circumstances which you and I have no part of? That should be a choice they are allowed to make. When we have people of low intelligence such as LAgirl spouting her nonsense, its hard for me to want to discuss, in an intelligent manner, my views. Its like trying to talk to a mentally handicapped person about a complicated subject. Shame on you for backing up her blah blah blah nonsense.

Perhaps this is good slogan if you want to win democratic elections, so empty. If you don't want to talk about this issue, just avoid this thread.

How is love empty? Perhaps for you but not for freebird and I :P

You know I was going to verbally abuse you, but I was brought up well and one thing my parents always told me is never to make fun of or abuse the retarded.

Second that.

love, love, love :-)

lesser and LAgirl need more love and less hate toward people they dont know.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #225
When it comes to something as complicated as abortion, it is not black and white,

According to which philosophy?

When we have people of low intelligence such as LAgirl spouting her nonsense, its hard for me to want to discuss, in an intelligent manner, my views.

You have concentrate all your attention on her posting and ignored other posters. That is pretty selective and poor excuse, don't you think? All of them are fools as well?

Shame on you for backing up her blah blah blah nonsense.

Really?? I find her style of writing far too much emotional and chaotic, thus I hardly read anything. I never quoted her in this thread. You should rather question statements that I made instead making me responsible for her posting.

How is love empty? Perhaps for you but not for freebird and I :P

Love is not empty, just this banal slogan that you made here. You can love only certain people that you know. Perhaps you have the same syndrome as president Kaczynski who declare national mourning because few anonymous tourists died in bus crash accident?
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #226
According to which philosophy?

I dont know what philosophy you would use to argue it. Others lives are not your business when it comes in regard to such a highly personal choice as abortion. Tell me, by which philosophy is it black and white? I think it is black and white in religious philosophy and Catholic dogma most particularly.

Love is not empty, just this banal slogan that you made here. You can love only certain people that you know. Perhaps you have the same syndrome as president Kaczynski who declare national mourning because few anonymous tourists died in bus crash accident?

I dont like when people use the "abortion is murder" slogan, when they do not understand the scope of everything that occurs in the lives of others. They have this notion that all women have abortion on demand.

If you notice, in regard to LAgirl, my comment was quoting her "chooped up" comment. I was making light of her atrocious grammar and spelling.

I read everyone's comments, including yours, but I found hers to be more obnoxious so I quoted it and then she proceeded to attack me.. If you would read my ORIGINAL post, you would see that I quoted her small little chooped up comment :P

In regard to love, Its not a banal slogan, I am just saying instead of slamming eachother we should show some love and respect rather than attacking eachother in such a nasty manner as LAgirl... she can dish it out but not take it, so to speak. You can argue all day that abortion is wrong and evil but you arent effectively changing anyone else's opinion.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
1 May 2009 /  #227
According to which philosophy?

According to any philosophy where brains are used.

Let's look at this case:

- a woman is raped and she gets pregnant
- doctors establish the birth would be lethal for the woman so they advise abortion to save her.

Who should be eliminated and why? The unborn or the woman?

Now let's add to the scenario:

the raped woman is married
YOU are her husband?

Would you like your wife to die so you could nourish someone you don't know and who is a result of violence against your wife, and the cause of her death?

What happens to your life?
What happens to the fetus if it becomes a human?
How would you justify to your wife your decision to let her die by letting the fetus develop?

I offer no answers. I''m only showing that black and white can mix very fast and leave you with a lot of gray.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #228
I dont know what philosophy you would use to argue it.

You wished discussion on higher level, there you have it. You wrote that you read my previous post. Then you should already figure out that I'm using liberal (or libertarian) way of thinking.

I think it is black and white in religious philosophy and Catholic dogma most particularly.

I doubt that you know much about Catholic dogma. You know, some effort would be necessary to learn something about this issue. Anyway, this is not topic of this thread...

I dont like when people use the "abortion is murder" slogan

It is not slogan, this is a fact.

I was making light of her atrocious grammar and spelling.

This is weak argument.

In regard to love, Its not a banal slogan, I am just saying instead of slamming eachother we should show some love and respect rather than attacking eachother in such a nasty manner as LAgirl

Please re-read my previous post, because you doesn't seem to catch the base... I understand 'respect', however "love" is a wrong word.

You can argue all day that abortion is wrong and evil but you arent effectively changing anyone else's opinion.

You are wrong, I cannot change opinion of most of those who disagree with me. If you stick to this logic that you offer here every debate is fruitless.

z_darius

If you would bother to read even this very page 6 of this thread then you would learn that I accept this exception.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
1 May 2009 /  #229
If you would bother to read even this very page 6 of this thread then you would learn that I accept this exception.

Than I wonder how come you made this comment in response to the quoted text:

Pani_Polska:
When it comes to something as complicated as abortion, it is not black and white,


According to which philosophy?

lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #230
Than I wonder how come you made this comment in response to the quoted text:

According to liberal philosophy this is black or white issue. If you believe in personal liberty just to this extend when you would disturb personal liberty of other people. This is exactly this exception mentioned above.
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #231
You are wrong, I cannot change opinion of most of those who disagree with me. If you stick to this logic that you offer here every debate is fruitless.

I am wrong according to YOU, but many others would say that I am right. Those of us who feel so, can back this up with logical argument and reasoning. You wipe down the board with your one size fits all opinion which doesnt work for every circumstance. If you stick to your logic, every debate here is fruitless as well. Its obvious you disagree with my opinion so you feel its necessary to attack my understanding of other things such as Catholic dogma. I was raised a devout Catholic but had a change of heart.

I dont see how according to liberal philosophy it is disturbing the personal liberty of a fetus, for example, if it is an ectopic pregnancy. The mother will be killed if the fetus is allowed to develop, ending 2 lives rather than one, so you are impending upon the personal liberty of the woman. You say abortion is murder but in this circumstance it would be double homicide.
SamenessLove 1 | 33  
1 May 2009 /  #232
Less then %1 of all abortions are due to rape and the mother's life being in danger combined.
Pani_Polska - | 89  
1 May 2009 /  #233
But that one percent still counts, should we take away their right to life as well? You are busy worrying about unborn cluster of cells when we have real human beings who are loved and known by others that, although perhaps <1%, should have the right to choose. In regard to abortion on demand, you will put a new life in the hands of someone too selfish or unwilling to be a mother? or shall that child get lost into the system, unwanted and unloved. So many children remain unadopted here in the States and are shuffled between foster homes, which are usually more dangerous than staying with the birth parents. How do these people function in society as adults? I notice in America, the same people who are anti-abortion are also anti-welfare and pro-death penalty. Never made sense to me.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #234
lesser:
You are wrong, I cannot change opinion of most of those who disagree with me. If you stick to this logic that you offer here every debate is fruitless.

I am wrong according to YOU, but many others would say that I am right. Those of us who feel so, can back this up with logical argument and reasoning.

So you reject Aristotelian dialectic and try to rationalize this claim by opinion of majority?? :))

Even here you are not consequent, because you admit that some might feel different.

Its obvious you disagree with my opinion so you feel its necessary to attack my understanding of other things such as Catholic dogma. I was raised a devout Catholic but had a change of heart.

You see you are basing your understanding of Catholic dogma on your childhood in Catholic family. This is the same as admitting that you never read anything about this issue. Non-Catholics who bothered to read something know more that about 90% of declared Catholics.

ending 2 lives rather than one, so you are impending upon the personal liberty of the woman.

I don't think that my English is so bad, apparently you have problems with understanding...
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
1 May 2009 /  #235
According to liberal philosophy this is black or white issue. If you believe in personal liberty just to this extend when you would disturb personal liberty of other people. This is exactly this exception mentioned above.

Then you don't understand liberal philosophy. It's not about what should or shouldn't be but about people making choices and living with the consequences. Liberal approach doesn't mean abortions are good or bad but they can be justified and liberal approach doesn't necessarily mean moral approval.

For instance, a liberal won't object to legalizing prostitution but that doesn't mean that prostitution is seen as morally sound by all liberals, or that all liberals approving of homosexuality are homosexuals themselves. Similarly abortions. I don't have a problem with abortions under some circumstances.

Some liberals are even opposed to abortion so in fact the spectrum of approaches within the liberal mind is scattered all over the place. You will find similar variety of approaches among conservatives.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 May 2009 /  #236
Then you don't understand liberal philosophy. It's not about what should or shouldn't be but about people making choices and living with the consequences.

I understand well and agree about choices and consequences. However how would you explain liberal economists behaviour, they clearly say that socialism is wrong. Liberal clearly state that freedom of one person cannot go against freedom of other people.

Those liberals whom are in favour of abortions also share above mentioned views. Their problem is that they started this barren arguments 'when the life starts in fact'. They cannot agree among themselves, they ignore the simplest answer. Their mistake is not philosophical, it has scientific character.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
1 May 2009 /  #237
Wow thats great and all but what does it have to do with me? I didnt come out in support for abortion nor did I come out against it. All I said is we need love in the world, leave me out of your theocratic babble

But I wasn't speaking to you, Pani...
grethomory 1 | 154  
2 May 2009 /  #238
the raped woman is married
YOU are her husband?

That's right...but people talk alot of S**t until they are in that situation.
freebird 3 | 532  
2 May 2009 /  #239
You are wrong, I cannot change opinion of most of those who disagree with me. If you stick to this logic that you offer here every debate is fruitless.

well, more or less it is. We're just spending our free time here, discussing about something that has been discussed thousands of times before and to be honest, not achieving anything and it's good so because what kind of achievement would it be? I can't speak for anyone else here but I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe and I don't want anyone else to try to convince me to change my point of view. It won't work anyway, :-).
Pani_Polska - | 89  
2 May 2009 /  #240
But I wasn't speaking to you, Pani...

Sorry, my name was mentioned in the direct comment of LAgirl's feeble attempt at conveying an argument which you quoted, please excuse the misunderstanding, Joe! This was a quite fun thread

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