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Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue?


RazZ 1 | 180  
11 Apr 2007 /  #31
yeah i know

I think that only women should discuss abortion rights since it directly concerns them. Somehow, men are the majority in making those policies and I don't think it's fair.

but this is what i was replying to. its should depend on men too cos it concerns them as well
telefonitika  
11 Apr 2007 /  #32
One of them being rape and one of them having an unborn child which will have a serious affliction.

One of the reasons I can't understand, is sleeping around with men, getting pregnant, and removing what could've been a perfectly healthy child because it will be an inconvenience to you.

good point arien

being roman catholic i often have this thrown in my face with this issue my point and opinion is my religion has frak all to do with decisions and choices i make as an individual nor influence them we have are own minds at end of day ... and yes inevitably it is the woman choice to go down this route for whatever reason.
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #33
Laws are mainly written and voted on by men, since they are majority in the governments around the world. Scandiavian countries have a more sensible law due to a higher volume of women in the government.
RazZ 1 | 180  
11 Apr 2007 /  #34
Laws are mainly written and voted on by men, since they are majority in the governments around the world

sad but true. its a male Dominate thing. wish female too were involved
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
11 Apr 2007 /  #35
its a male Dominate thing. wish female too were involved

theres the answer.. .more female dominatrixes in government. ... oh sorry, this is in danger of becoming yet another pervy thread.
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #36
Famous Female leaders. Bodicea. Queen Mary of Scots, Elizabeth 1, Thatcher. Joan of Arc, All violent *******.
RazZ 1 | 180  
11 Apr 2007 /  #37
but females are too damn emotional and they all will make decision from the heart.
Maxxx_Payne_g  
11 Apr 2007 /  #38
Laws are mainly written and voted on by men, since they are majority in the governments around the world. Scandiavian countries have a more sensible law due to a higher volume of women in the government.

and most scandinavian (swedish/finnish especially) are wimps that let this kind of laws happen. Poland's law is very sensible. Scandinavian feminism is new nazism in here. I hate it.
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #39
Scandinavian feminism is new nazism

That would make a brilliant quote on a T-Shirt.
Maxxx_Payne_g  
11 Apr 2007 /  #40
RazZ,
what I was trying to say was that women, as well as men should have a say in the abortion laws. Law is what I am talking about, not the personal cirumstances.

Yes you are right. This thing concerns every human being.
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #41
Well, if somebody is interested in the topic, goole Alicja Tysiac, whose famous case of being denied abortion took her to court is Strasburg and she won.

Giles, I don't understand what you are trying to say. I wasn't talking about women being powerfull leaders, I was talking about women taking equal part in decision making, be it abortion or anything else for that matter. I think you misread my post.
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #42
I was being silly, not serious, s'cool. Men are merely Pandas!
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #43
Giles,

I don't understand what you mean by Pandas, please explain.
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #44
Pandas. EATS, SHOOTS AND LEAFS.:)
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
11 Apr 2007 /  #45
i think he maybe means - eats shoots and leaves?
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #46
Maax,
I know what you think about scandinavian feminism, because we had this discussion in another thread.
It is viewed differently around the world and it an example for many coutries.
I also am aware of your neo liberal views which are very far my own so I am not expecting tha twe would agree on this one.

I just know that neo liberal policies have hurt women the most by cutting subsidies, especially for the single mothers, abused women who now have to stay with their abusive partners/husbands -what's good about that? I am lost here.
szarlotka 8 | 2,209  
11 Apr 2007 /  #47
I don't understand what you mean by Pandas,

Or it could be big cuddly looking creatures that will tear you to shreds if you turn the TV off in the middle of a game:) :)
Maxxx_Payne_g  
11 Apr 2007 /  #48
Maax,
I know what you think about scandinavian feminism, because we had this discussion in another thread.
It is viewed differently around the world and it an example for many coutries.

yes, I just get carried away...
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #49
Szarlotka,

if that's who you want to be that's OK. I am starting to get tired of this simplified version of men these days.

I don't believe it and I don't buy it. The reason women don't watch that much TV is probably that they are doing more work around the house and simply don't have time.

Besides TV is not really that beneficial for us:)
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
11 Apr 2007 /  #50
The reason women don't watch that much TV is probably that they are doing more work around the house and simply don't have time.
Besides TV is not really that beneficial for us

hey.. I love watching TV.. thats why I need a cleaner!
szarlotka 8 | 2,209  
11 Apr 2007 /  #51
if that's who you want to be that's OK.

I must learn not to be so flippant
I must learn not to be so flippant
I must learn.....

Oh, you get the picture miranda......

TV in general is awful - on that we agree.
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #52
Szarlotka,

I am sorry, I get the picture. I get really serious when feminist issues are at stake.
I watch some american and canadian sitcomes and all the men are portayed there as Pandas. I don't find it funny bit very unjust for men in general.

My father is almost 80 and he cooks and cleans by himself because my mother is no longer there. He doesn't miss her cleaning or cooking, he misses her company.

(I am off topic here
szarlotka 8 | 2,209  
11 Apr 2007 /  #53
My father is almost 80 and he cooks and cleans by himself because my mother is no longer there. He doesn't miss her cleaning or cooking, he misses her company.

I understand miranda. It was a bit thoughtless of me to stereotype for the sake of a cheap laugh. Sorry :(
Maxxx_Payne_g  
11 Apr 2007 /  #54
I also am aware of your neo liberal views which are very far my own so I am not expecting tha twe would agree on this one.

i thought you mean neocon ?

I just know that neo liberal policies have hurt women the most by cutting subsidies, especially for the single mothers, abused women who now have to stay with their abusive partners/husbands -what's good about that? I am lost here.

Yes the situation of single mothers is bad, but it is bad everywhere for them and there should be improvement that should go in hand with abortion laws.. And abusive husbands/partners should be dealt with....police force, like abuses in general.
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #55
I watch some american and canadian sitcomes and all the men are portayed there as Pandas

Re these cartoon sitcoms, like The Simpsons?:)

Sorry am i being flippant?
Maxxx_Payne_g  
11 Apr 2007 /  #56
but look what happened to Pandas....they are almost extinct now.
Not a real role model in that sense ?
OP Giles  
11 Apr 2007 /  #57
I think Fred Bomber is speaking dutch or something, sorry pal THIS IS THE POLISH FORUM.:)
miranda  
11 Apr 2007 /  #58
Maax,
I am sorry, I though it was the same, neolib=neocom

Giles,
I didn't mean Simpsons, I mean other, family oriented sitcomes. I generaly watch a lot of public TV.

Maax,
as for role models I think that it's a diffcult time for some men, since the existing ones are not very attractive and mostly removed from reality. Got to dig deeper and on your own most of the time.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
11 Apr 2007 /  #59
Giles, I don't understand what you are trying to say. I wasn't talking about women being powerfull leaders, I was talking about women taking equal part in decision making, be it abortion or anything else for that matter. I think you misread my post.

In order to take equal parts in decision making one needs to truly want to be a part of it. I don't know a single female interested in politics thus I am hazardous to say that the small percentage of women in polish parliament, or in any parliament for that matter, is due to the lack of interest of politics displayed by women.

Though it is not something to be taken lightly. Since I'm a not in God/religion, I take a humanist approach, what do others think. And more importantly, how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue. especially given the amount of mind control the catholic church has over Poles, especially the old, infirm and mentally unsound.

This whole "Catholic church has so enormous impact on Poles" slogan is a myth really, very often spread by poles themselves. The fact is, that Poles are pretty much religious people (well at least more religious than the westerners) but that doesn't mean that they do whatever the priest says. That could be the case decades ago in small villages, but certainly not now. The catholic church is against contraception, and yet you won't have any problems to buy a condom here. The catholic church is against pornography and yet you will be able to buy a porn paper in every news paper agency, etc... The Catholic Church says that on Friday there shouldn’t be any parties taking place, and yet the clubs and pubs are always packed up with people... Convinced? No? Just think about your polish friends, are they really that blind religious bigots that you may think about them. You will notice that that's just not the case. We are probably more conservative, but still not that orthodox.

As for abortion, I’m just trying to figure out at what point men managed to convince women that this is what they really want. Mostly all those women that say that they are for abortion on request totally change their minds after they are really pregnant. This state just basically puts everything upside down in a woman’s life.

Very often we can hear arguments that men shouldn’t engage in a discussion about abortion because they don’t know anything about being pregnant. Well, a woman that never been pregnant also doesn’t know anything about pregnancy, about what it’s really going to be.

Abortion isn’t an easy problem to solve, but then again, this is how the adult world functions, right? A person that is mature enough to have sex should be mature enough to know that people take responsibilities for their actions. Yeah, easier said than done. I was faced by a similar problem when I was a student and 19. I was seriously thinking about avoiding this responsibility. About taking an easier path. I can tell you two things at this point: firstly, I would never judge a person that would choose abortion. Secondly, a woman at that time needs support from her loved ones and not “help” from the abortion clinic stuff.

But then again, what do I know. I’m just a man… :)

And more importantly, how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue

Poland has the smallest birth rate among all the EU countries, so I would think that they will try to leave the things as they are now.
1st generation  
11 Apr 2007 /  #60
Sadly, most people would be outraged if we would start performing abortions on cats and dogs. People view pets differently than humans.

I am confused. Recently, the BBC in the US had a case of a woman who wanted to keep her embryo for implantation but her former partner said no. This is how some fathers feel with the abortion issue. They have no say in what happens to their embryos. Sorry, I took many philosophy and ethics classes in the US. Any opinions????

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