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My Polish boyfriend never says 'l love you' to me, what should i do?


moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #1
Hi, everyone, I have been depressed for a month for my relationship with my polish boyfriend. I couldn't sleep, thinking about it all the night. I am a Chinese girl in early 30s. Maybe you have got some informations about my relationship with him from my former posts.

Here is the problem:
I have been with my polish boyfriend for one year. I am working in denmark and he is working in poland now. i am going to visit him in three days, cos next tuesday is our one year's anniversary. He never says 'i love you' to me. in fact from the beginning it was me who insisted the relationship. He is kind of person who seldom tell people what is deep in his mind, but use joke to hide his feelings. It is hard to be with this kind of man for the relationship, cos no communication often brings out misunderstanding, but soon or later i got used to this. He is very sweet to me when we are together, endless kisses, caresses, make me feel like a little girl under his safe arms, which is exactly what i wanted from i was a little girl. I have been strong, independent for years. but i am not aggressive, i always listen to him and respect his decision.

(Have to explain the chinese culture background. I am a doctor in science and work as an assistant professor in danish university now. if i was in china, i am sort of women no man would like to marry with, no matter how beautiful i look like and how well i cook. chinese men feel threaten by intelligent women)

back to the topic. we had talked once, like six month after the relationship. i asked if he loves me, he said if he loved me he should have married me. he likes me a lot, but not sure it is love or not, and that we can keep the relationship, until i find someone else. i was so sad and desperated when i heared this. but after one night's self struggle, i decided to keep the relationship although his attitude was really lack of affection and a kinda of insult for me. i love him so much that i am willing to risk, to make him love me.

hopefully after that conversation he was nicer to me, he invited me for xmas with his family, and his family and friends treated me like a pearl. after three month i went to poland again for easter holiday like 2 weeks together. we sleep togeth in his parents home like a real couple, his mother prepared the bed for us. i really feel like a family member.

so my questions are:
1.is it normal that polish men bring their girlfriends to their parents home like my bf did to me? i really hope it is a sign a promisement or engagement.

2. should i ask him something like "if he loves me, where we are" at the 1 year anniversary night? I didnt ask him anything after i got that bad answer six month again, i am self-esteemed person, and afraid of getting ashamed with unexpected answer.

3. should i keep meeting him in poland without him visiting me in denmark. although i know he is not in good financial situation, but it is pretty unfair for me as a girl to do all the efforts, not talking about the money, but all the trouble to apply for the visa everytime i go to poland. will he feel be insulted if i told him i can cover all his costs if he visit me in denmark?

4. although he was very nice and sweet to me when we were staying together, he never called me when i was in denmark, we chat sometimes by msn, it was always me who called from time to time. is it a sign of no love? i am pretty comfused.

5. i know he is not in a right direction for his career, he insisted in doing small labor business in poland although he is educated as an engineer. he is a very intelligent man in my heart :P. I have always been supportive for his decision although i know it is not a very wise one. should i point it out, i dont want to hurt his pride and i dont want to be a woman who try to control her man.

I have been thinking of these problems for long time. i cannt feel totally happy when these problems come to my mind. sometimes he asked me why i didnt look happy, how can i answe him with all these problems. I have also talked with my friends here in denmark, but chinese friends opinons are too practically based, in their mind I can only marry a professor; while nordic friends opinons are also too self based, they seek for equal, equal affection, equal payout, equal housework, cannt understand sacrifice for love. nobody support me to be a housewife in poland without job, although it was only my own plan.

so i would really appreciate any opinons from a polish point of view that is a combination of both traditional values and westen free mind.

sorry for my broken english if i didnt explain all the story well.
thank you in advance
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #2
Asian people seem smart.They are so analytical from my non-polish point of view.
However they always lose to westerners because europeans are far more brutal,violent and aggresive.
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #3
Asian people seem smart.

not everybody for sure. and it is not a really compliment for a chinese woman in china. tragedy is that we have to hide our brightness to satisfy men's pride.

it is good to be myself in europe

they always lose to westerners because europeans are far more brutal,violent and aggresive

they are not, at least my boyfriend is not that kind of, otherwise i wouldnt fall love with him.
miranda  
7 May 2007 /  #4
it doesn't seem that you are all that happy with the whole arrangement.

You have a long distance relationship with somebody who doesn't seem to care that much for you.
If you are planning to move to Poland and loose all your security you have in Denmark, then make sure that you are going there to be reunited with somebody who loves you, respects you and is your partner.

Good luck.
PS. If the whole affair is making you sleepless and depressed, it's NOT a good sign. Do what's best of you. Also, you seemto have your own plan without consulting it with your boyfriend. Does he know tha tyou are planning to move to Poland?
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #5
1.It is normal.I also stayed at polish grilfriends' home.This did not mean I was engaged.
2.This question will add to his frustration.Women think this way about relationships,not men.Men do not like to hear such questions because they think it is just another **** test.Things like where are we now,where does this relationship go,I have invested a lot in this relationship are a headache for us,men,we do not like to hear that stuff,believe me.

3.It is better for you,because if you bring him to Poland his polish girlfriend will be anxious he might get a job in Denmark.You will be hurt because you will see him sending SMS and talking to the phone often.

4.He knows you are attracted to him and does you a favour by answering your calls.He is not afraid to lose you since he does not call you.

5.If you want to gain him,you should target exactly that.His career.If you find for him a decent job in Denmark,he is likely to stay with you.

He will compromise when he sees things clearly.Now he sees them obscurated.You cannot force him because he will never believe you.He does not find you very attractive to do favors.You can just use indirect approach to bring him closer to you.

This is my personal,non-polish,non asian opinion.

Slavic people have a lot of aggresion but they hide it.German people let it all over.
lavs are also very proud of themselves but they also hide it.Europeans bust and Slavs laugh.
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #6
hi, miranda, thank you for your support.
I told my boyfriend before that i want to move to poland, and i did contact a professor in Lublin for job. but it is not that easy to get a position in polish university as in western european countries.

so i have to face the reality, i will not move to poland as a single woman, it is too hard for me, and even i find a job, i cannt afford my life with the limited wage. If we are married, i dont mind the bad living condition, i come from poor country, nothing worse i will face with. But if i am single, i have to be nice to myself, that needs money.

last easter my boyfriend told me that " screw your scientific career, and still here with me", he said this with in a easy and joking tone after i made him a delicous chinese dinner, i dont know how serious he is, but i answered 'no problem from me'. He is a very smart person, he knows what i want, we dont say everything very clearly.

it doesn't seem that you are all that happy with the whole arrangement

i am not that happy when we are not together, and when he didnt send me text for days. when we are together, that huge happiness just submerge,i often burst into tears because this huge happiness and satisfaction.

I cannt tell the definition of happiness now, very confused
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #7
tragedy is that we have to hide our brightness to satisfy men's pride.

Ain't that the truth! :) men are, speaking for myself I guess, can be so prideful. To be fair thats the world we grew up in, it is expected of us to act certain ways - that way is changing in many western cultures, i notice it less in the younger generation. (its still there, just not as much)

With more independent women - men have had to re-adjust.

AS to your problem - it can play a part. Men say they want to have a smart women, what they usually end up meaning on a subconscience level is a smart woman, just not as smart as him.

Maybe its the case here? maybe he is intimidated by your obvious status in academia. my2cents
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #8
In both Eastern Europe and Asia it seems that feminism is not very adavanced.This is not negative at all.Probably a polish man knows to treat a chinese woman better.
miranda  
7 May 2007 /  #9
" screw your scientific career, and still here with me"

don't see why you would give up something that is a part of you, gives you security and satisfaction. Nobody who loves you would suggest even in a joking way to give up your career. It's a source of your financial independance and if you cannot have the same in Poland, I would think twice about moving and starting from the beginning in a new country.

If we are married, i dont mind the bad living condition, i come from poor country, nothing worse i will face with.

I don't agree with that. you left China and you want to subject yourself to bad living conditions again. That's going backwards. Especially with your boyfriend not being very supportive.

I think your boyfriend doesn't have much to offer when it comes to support and financial stablilty for now anyways.

we dont say everything very clearly.

I don't doubt that he loves you in his own way, however you should tell him how you feel.
i know there are a lot of emotions involved but you need to solve the problem with your head. There is noting wrong with being rational:)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
7 May 2007 /  #10
europeans are far more brutal,violent and aggresive.

exactly how much experience have you had with the chinese southern...?
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #11
thank you, southern, for your advice. there is something i didnt explain clearly, according to your advice:
1. good to know that. i will not put this as one of the positive aspect of my relationship
2. i read many psycholocal books. i know how do men think, but i cannt use psychology to sovle my own problem
3. he doesnt not have polish girlfriend now and when we met, we are both single. that is the base for our relationship, i would never ever have affair with men.

4. It maybe true, i thought he is not that kind of shallow man. i just cannt accept the fact, i would rather believe he is busy or it is too expensive to call me from his mobile.

5. he had decent job in german, he quited it voluntarily to start the business in poland, he loves poland, and has ambition.

I am pretty good looking, much better than his ex-girlfriends. i am always trying to learn everything to make a perfect woman, i am a good beller dance dancer, good at cooking, knitting, all the housework. i am really attractive to most men. but it seems love is much more than attractive. i cannt force a man to love me.

anyway i wiil change the strategy slowly, he will never care about me if he didnt make any effort.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #12
anyway i wiil change the strategy slowly,

Men often don't like feeling played. We know he is not being the best man for you from what you've said - only love you have is keeping you there but under any normal conditions - would you tolerate it?

I dont think its best to try and change him as men are very stubborn creatures and even more so when trying to be changed. I think it would make it worse moire :(

I know we cannot see what makes him special to you that you stay with him - but weigh up that versus all this i think.
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #13
In both Eastern Europe and Asia it seems that feminism is not very adavanced.This is not negative at all.Probably a polish man knows to treat a chinese woman better.

I definity know feminism has no market all over the world. i have never been a feminist.

maybe he is intimidated by your obvious status in academia

at the beginning i told his i dont like academia stuff at all, i have to do this because it seems the only job i can find in europe.

cannt understand what is wrong with my job if i still cook his dinner, wash his clothes, knit him sweater
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #14
cannt understand what is wrong with my job if i still cook his dinner, wash his clothes, knit him sweater

thats not the point in the mind of some men - its the fact you could earn more money then him, be smarter than him. im just saying, some men are very insecure about these things. Id love it really - means more money for the household and greater oppurtunity to have great things open for a possible family
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #15
I know we cannot see what makes him special to you that you stay with him - but weigh up that versus all this i think.

he is special and wonderful, although i complained so much about him here.
thank you too, daffy.
my heart simply doesnt listen to my head. that is the main problem
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #16
You cannot use psychology because books cannot explain to you how men feel.It is simple.If you had testosterone in you hundrends times more,how would you feel?Probably you are not willing to try.And men do not like to take estrogens to understand how women think.In fact it has no value.

Polish girls are extremely attractive and can in part tolerate that their boyfriend has also another girlfriend especially if she is far.Nothing is granted and you will never find out because polish are chytry.

If a man likes you,he is afraid to lose you.He will make a call at least once a week(girls want more).Now with messengers,prepaid cards etc is easier,cheap.He just takes you for granted.You cannot press him to call you more times.It will make him more angry,anxious and will not help you.

I do not believe he deliberately left his job in Germany.In Germany there is high unemployment,foreigners work for black money,more hours than germans and get easier fired than germans.I think he lost his job in Germany or he was denied promotion or salary raise.Poland has now unemployment of 15% bigger than Germany.

Every Polak loves Poland,however all want to be abroad.
You should consult some slavic or meditteranean girls about the secrets of attraction.They are experts in this field.
Most men do not like to say I love you.This is very much a commitment statement and causes fear.We prefer to say I like you,although maybe what we have in mind is I love you in women's vocabulary.That a man does not say this word to you does not mean anything special.What matters are his actions.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #17
Every Polak loves Poland,

not true - i know many many poles who hate the things in there homeland

You cannot use psychology

ridiculous - it is a highly valid and valuable means of understanding human behavior - the exceptions to the rules are even covered there and always more study is going on.

It is the means that people can sit here and say 'ah yes, i know what you mean' and so on. Its because we share understanding on the subject at a basic level and as such it is possible to understand on a more academic level.

Moire's plight is not unique and has many psychological studies and papers on just such human behavior.
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #18
You can use hard core psychology but this is heavy scientific stuff and is not used for things like relationship counselling.If you use scientific methods you will get accused of bad use of science.Ancient greeks said every science without ethics seems just sly,not wisdom.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #19
Im not using heavy scientific methods - i merely borrow a little from life, a little form psychology that i deem relevant to the topic.

It is an established way of thinking in some males that moire is experiencing and i offer this information to her knowingly and from my experiences that men are often very difficult to change - that men are the only ones who can truly change themselves

you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink, comes to mind

BTW - register will ya ;) you've posted so much now you might as well :)
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #20
You should consult some slavic or meditteranean girls about the secrets of attraction

thanks for this advice. i did have several polish femal friends when i was in german. I definitly know what is the secrets of attraction for a man, i guess i do it well.

but i cannt speak sweetly like polish girls even my boyfriend, i never called my partners honey, baby stuff, :(, chinese have deep sitted emotion, we are not good at expressing ourself, i have never heard about this sweet words from my parents, i didnt learn it when i was young. so now even i am willing to be sweet, these words are just stuck in my thoast, cannt go out. i act more than talk.

Most men do not like to say I love you.

i totally agree with this. i distinguish like and love too. i never say i love you to him, but i did write letters to him and make valantine's card saying I love you. he should know i said this with commitment from my part
southern  
7 May 2007 /  #21
Since you cannot speak like that with the sweet voice of a polish girl,you are already in a state of disadavantage.In part maybe this causes some of his reactions.

Women want always to change men,however men are not willing to change and do not understand why they should.

For example would you put your bare legs on his legs while sitting in dining room or sit in his lap and kiss him deep for hours in a club as polish girls do?Do you call him kochanie etc?
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #22
i do not want to change my man. i love what he is, that is the reason i fall love with him.
i like strong men in general, i like man who wants to control women.
i my family, my mother control everything, i am pretty tired of this, and feel pity for my father. i dont want the same thing happen.
ladystardust - | 84  
7 May 2007 /  #23
Moire, I don't know you or your boyfriend, but from what you wrote I don't get the impression you are very satisfied and confident in your relationship. What can I say? I live here in Poland and I know it's not so easy to have a successful scienfic career here, so you must be really well-grounded to come here and try. If you feel that there is something in this relationship to build your future on, then go for it, but think twice and don't forget about yourself! The man you're with doesn't seem to be very much into commitment, so you need something on your own to relate to. Coming here for him only may be great for your relationship at first, but then it may introduce a whole lot of frustration and disappointment, if you end up in a different place that you hoped for. In either case, talk to him about your fears and hopes. If he has some hopes for future with you too, he'll understand and listen to you.

Sorry if I am being too pessimistic - I really wish you all luck - it's just I've been in a similar situation and I never heard the wedding bells after I moved to another place just be with my man.

Good luck though!
FISZ 24 | 2,116  
7 May 2007 /  #24
For example would you put your bare legs on his legs while sitting in dining room or sit in his lap and kiss him deep for hours in a club as polish girls do?

Do PL women usually do this? This is common behavior by most people I see in the clubs in NYC. I doubt they're all PL :)

You seem to think you know everything about these women. May I ask how many PL (in Poland) you've dated?

Moire- you really need to give this guy an ultimatum.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
7 May 2007 /  #25
Do PL women usually do this?

not all at all! i know MANY polish women and MOST of them - this behaviour is 'slappish'
FISZ 24 | 2,116  
7 May 2007 /  #26
Daf....c'mon :) I know this. Southern thinks he knows everything about PL women. He has admitted that these are from his experiences...he's meeting what sounds like the wrong women...everytime (if there are so many)
espana 17 | 910  
7 May 2007 /  #27
FISZ

daffy

your boyfriends never say i love you??????????????:)
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #28
For example would you put your bare legs on his legs while sitting in dining room or sit in his lap and kiss him deep for hours in a club as polish girls do?Do you call him kochanie etc?

i did more than this, i guess not less than a polish or american girl can do ;) i have been in france and german for years, i am not conservative chinese in china. but i never flirt with his male friends, although we often joke about threesome stuff.

i never call him kochanie, that is true. i will try to speak sweet.

by the way i dont think you can kiss a polish man for hours in a club, his mouth is alway busy for beer or vodak :D
ladystardust - | 84  
7 May 2007 /  #29
Allrighty, I never deep-kiss my bf in a club, an mind you, I am Polish :D
There are certain behaviors all over the world - and women with no limits too ;)
OP moire 4 | 40  
7 May 2007 /  #30
The man you're with doesn't seem to be very much into commitment, so you need something on your own to relate to. Coming here for him only may be great for your relationship at first, but then it may introduce a whole lot of frustration and disappointment, if you end up in a different place that you hoped for. In either case, talk to him about your fears and hopes. If he has some hopes for future with you too, he'll understand and listen to you.

i do have many plans if i am gonna move to poland. there are a lot of oppotunity of business between poland and china, in both directions. i really can do a lot of things in poland except academy. only the first few years gonna be hard, coz i have to learn this tough polish. i am brave. but all this depends on his commitment. i dont know should i talk all my plans with him or not. i am afraid he think i am too ambitious. he is always saying that women should stay in the kitchen

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