History / 9th November 1989: And the wall came tumbling down [113]


If you're finding it difficult to make sense of it all, I can only draw your attention to pp.26-28 of "Rising '44" by Norman Davies (2003 ed.). He promulgates some fairly cogent reasons which make sense to me, and it should put you down the right path. Whilst Mr Davies is not Christ, he does seem to have a good handle on the situation in question.


Perhaps Poland may have survived in a fashion to which large emigre movements would not have materialised post WW2, thus obviating the need for you to act as moral inquisitor regarding the metaphysical questions you pose to the descendants of such emigres' vis a vis what they may or may not have done if ordered by their C in C to carry out an attack on Communist Poland...


Whilst tempting, I'll refrain from asking you the very same question, as it would be disingenuous of me to ask and expect you to reply without feeling trapped, as the answer, by virtue of the question, predicates a negative response that would draw an adverse inference no matter how you answered (it would of course be a hypothetical upon a hypothetical as I'll assume you never joined or served the armed forces of your nation, but correct me if I'm wrong).

It would be prudent to bear in mind that questions of morality, loyalty and conscience must be framed in terms that take account of the context to which the questions relate to, rather than transposing modern day sensibilities, norms and mores to a scenario that happened in the past when of course, such sensibilities, mores and norms were different.

A parable perhaps?

A man stands facing a choice: 2 armed men with guns, who are pointing same at his parents' heads, have asked him to choose - who is to perish, his mum, or his dad?

How does one answer that?

Feel free to have a shot, but if you feel trapped, perhaps you ought to show some restraint in future when thinking about posing such questions to forum members who either have parents who faced such dilemmas, or faced such dilemmas themselves.


This proposition presupposes that the Soviets would not have fought the Germans but for 'concessions' and effectively carte blanche from the Allies. It is difficult to reconcile the notion that the Soviet command and/or rank and file simply would have upped stumps and ceased fighting if word was gleaned that the Allies would be scrutinising Soviet actions, or, more relevantly, refraining from quiet acquiescence on the question of Poland's borders and sovereignty. Logic would suggest that the dice was cast at the inception of Operation Barbarossa and that the fight between Germany and Russia would continue until one was annihilated, rather than Russia's continuation of the fight being subject to security of geo-political hegemony and tacit surety from the Allies that such hegemony would not be seriously challenged ex post facto.

Poland's status therefore as sacrificial lamb to the flawed notion of a requirement for a Soviet 'guarantee' of mutually assured destruction of Germany could and should therefore have been avoided.

That said, if you have firm evidence to suggest that the kid glove handling of the USSR was required lest they stop fighting, or worse, turn on the allies, then please share.


Please do. I've heard of one - during the Warsaw Rising a group of SS soldiers were captured by some Polish civilians. The SS men had their skin peeled off and then salted. Their ultimate fate is unknown to me. It was a form of torture prescribed for the SS penchant of:

a. grabbing infants by the legs and smashing them against walls
b. using infants as bayonet practice
c. rolling grenades into basements where civilians were hiding
d. lining families against a wall, shooting all the adults whilst pretending to shoot the children, letting the children absorb the spectacle, and the brains and blood of their parents, then shooting the children

Are these the types of war crimes you refer to? If prosecution for alleged Polish perpetrated war crimes occurred, would we adopt a subjective or objective test of criminality? Do you think these types of 'revenge attacks' ought to be investigated and prosecuted?

Law / Poland Negotiation Style [5]


Hi mate,

My dad loves this type of thing. He was very much into 'contra deals', which was he would do something that he was good at (graphic design/artwork) in exchange for something else (goods/other services). This type of 'negotiation technique' was shared with his smal circle of Polish friends too so I think it may be a Polish character trait (he had quite a few Aussie and Lebanese friends who he brought into the fold as well). It probably would have been better to have been paid money for his professional services because the stuff my dad used to contra deal for was typically junk and/or an item that he thought he could do a contra deal on in the future!!

I was oh so happy the day my dad gifted me a 1970's style Farfisa keyboard which he contra'd for designing a business card.


I think your understanding of the word 'barter' is misconceived champ. Even if it was correct, how does a preparedness to barter indicate the possibility that Poles are sometimes wrong? I for example love to barter and I am rarely, if ever, wrong.


Too true mate, too true. If by the unexpected you mean for example going to buy a car, 'test driving' it for a week, then returning it, asking for another car for another week, then deciding you want neither nor did you actually want to buy a car.

History / Polish contribution to England during war [62]


It also could well be that the earth is flat - what a meek and utterly useless response to a fait accompli.

But hang on a second - let's use your logic on this point - Harry, prove that it actually wasn't said.

Hang on another second - why aren't you calling me a liar? Isn't that the typical response to anything that doesn't gel with your 'parallel universe'? I must say I'm surprised and disappointed in your lack of any inclination to fire up with the usual ad homs - oh, sorry, I forgot that you don't have the time to waste... you're not even throwing in for a laugh anything about the Peking Plan? Poland's backstab of the Ukraine/Czechoslovakia? Plastic Poles? Poland's concentration camps?.......


Your silence speaks at greater volume than any response you could have made, and no, I don't expect 'people' to waste their time reading my rubbish. One would have thought though that if it was rubbish, YOU would, as you always do, confront that rubbish and rubbish it in turn. Given that you haven't, it can only be assumed that it isn't, and whatever you say (or don't say), from now on, is, in fact, rubbish.

As per usual, the paper tiger once again curls up and capitulates when confronted with uncomfortable truths. It's always been curious to me how one of the most prolific, verbose and critical posters of this forum never hesitates to unleash on other forum members but strangely goes all quite when I put him to the test. I gave you several options and opportunities to challenge my posts but the old chestnut of "I don't have the time" coupled with an ad hom against me pops up conveniently (again). Once again, you've got nothing on, or for, moi, and more importantly, the assumptions requiring your rebuttals or confirmation stand, and my positions on all points, as always with you, are vindicated.

Your relevance and credit on this forum is forthwith ended. Pick up the pieces and move on matey – perhaps you can now go to an Aussie forum and talk about those negative things you alleged against OUR (yes, you are an Aussie by birth like me) indigenous people.

In passing, and on a final note for this thread, I will in all honesty credit you your intellect and quick wit, which is not to be diminished despite our differences of opinion. It’s just a pity you choose to use it to more often than not intemperately criticise and mock Poland, its people and also those of Polish descent rather than jump off the now fashionable bandwagon of revisionism. I can’t help but think if you actually had to live with, and be raised by, someone who went through and survived the epoch you most often utilise to critique negatively, you would perhaps have formed a different and more tolerant perspective – but that’s the difference in the hand we’ve each been dealt, isn’t it Harry.

History / Polish contribution to England during war [62]


Hi Harry - I see you're back for more. The Sword of Ozi Danocles is descending so let's savour your humiliation...


Unfortunately, I can't indulge you there, because I, unlike you, base a vast majority of my posts on the knowledge and information I have gleaned and recalled from reading textual resources (this means books), rather than, as you do, basing my opinions on internet resources.

You do remember the lesson I gave you on the attitude of academia toward internet resources vis a vis textual resources? In a nutshell, and as a general rule of thumb, textual resources prevail over internet based resources by virtue of the fact that that the former take time, effort and money to research, edit and publish, thereby ensuring checks and balances on the content and veracity of the matters promulgated in such resources.

The latter, on the other hand, and in the main, have no such checks and balances and are therefore subservient to, but can be used in support of, the former. I fully understand and appreciate however that you, being a second rate scribe and first rate pamphleteer, rather than the author you purport to be, wouldn't comprehend that rationale but I trust that you understand the subtle nuances now.

In any event, I understand that the paraphrased quote can also be found in Rising '44 by Norman Davies. Given that you have indicated previously on this forum that you hold a copy, I will permit you the experience of actually doing some proper research in finding it (hint: start in the 'index' and look for “Dowding”). Eagle20 (who I thank for taking the time and effort in searching for his provided link) is quite correct in pointing out that I erred in attributing the quote to Slessor rather than ACM Sir Hugh Dowding, who is the correct person to attribute it to. There may even be similar sentiments from other British military personnel contained in the book 'The Forgotten Few' by Adam Zamoyski. Unlike you, a Plastic Pom, most real Poms actually appreciate what the Poles did during the BoB.



I fear that yet again your memory continues to do your credibility a disservice. Try as I might, I cannot reconcile the above ad hom blitzkrieg as coming from the same person who delivered the following scathing critique of another forum member…


(Hello, Mr Pot, this is Mr Kettle – hello…hello……beep, beep, beep)

Opining that I am, and make claim to, your above-quoted would be akin to someone alleging that you hold the view that the below conduct is acceptable:

1. vilifying forum members when their views do not accord with yours;
2. threatening the female family members of forum members;
3. threatening physical violence against me;
4. misrepresenting the true and correct state of affairs in order to malign Poland and its people.

I'm pretty positive that you do not hold the view that the above are acceptable, but for confirmation and completeness I would appreciate you acknowledging my assumption. If words fail you, can I suggest words to the effect of:

"Yes Ozi Dan, I agree that the abovementioned forms of conduct are abhorrent and unacceptable and forum members who engage in same ought to take a voluntary suspension and make penance by placing flowers on the graves of those Polish (and Polish/Jewish) heroes who perished in WW2 fighting a common foe for your freedom and ours".

If you make no such positive acknowledgement, then it can only be assumed that you agree that the forms of conduct mentioned in items 1-4 are acceptable. The forum awaits your response...


I agree. Please show me where I've said otherwise. Can't, can you, because I didn't. To point out something trite is just that - trite - but it's also self serving. But then again, this is your style, is it not?


Touche, or is it douche? What is ACM Sir Dowding trying to say then (this will require analysis)? Your comprehension and ability to disseminate the meaning of words said by eminent military personnel seems to surpass mine. If you have a deeper level of understanding as to the meaning and intent of the words

had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of battle would have been the same,

then please share. Again, it will be assumed that the plain meaning of the quote (which I have alluded to in my first post on this thread) prevails unless you provide us with a compelling and acceptable alternative, which I'm sure you will be able to pluck out of the 'parallel universe' you inhabit. The forum awaits your version...


Having regard to textual resources (to which I expect references), please align this opinion with facts, failing which, it can only be assumed that your opinion is just that - an opinion (you do remember the lesson I gave on the difference and interplay between opinion and fact?).


You, being a British protagonist, and a Plastic Pom (despite the fact you're an Aussie and always will be no matter how hard you try to deny it) should be able to outline the British contribution to Poland in a fulsome fashion then? Once you do that, as an expert on the Polish contribution to the British, please report back as to whether or not the contributions were equal or commensurate, having regard of course to notions of relativity vis a vis both nations in question.

My position is that the Polish contribution on balance far outweighed the British (relative to each other) and that HMG in fact indulged in a negative contribution by continuing to ‘use’ Poland after the particulars of the Teheran conference were abundantly plain to Britain but not Poland. Of course, you would be familiar with my position because I've made it before elsewhere and addressed it directly to you in the vain hope of a response.

Again, failure to provide a valid and genuine response will simply allow assumptions that you accept my position, that it again prevails against yours, and your contention that


as it applies in the reverse to mine, simply falls apart like so much cheap paper used to print the dodgy tourist flyers you produce.


Are you familiar with the term of catching someone ‘hook, line and sinker’? I can only suggest you re-read and perhaps amend your above quote – reductio ad absurdem? You’re a big fan of the style of argument whereby you adopt the opposition’s ‘logic’ to qualify your refutation, aren’t you. The obvious danger there is that sometimes the opposition’s logic is deliberately and purposely flawed and me saying


is a nonsense of fact, logic and syntax, and moreover, by you adopting it for a ham-fisted riposte, it further makes nonsense of your chest-beating assertion that


Oh really? It must have been a ‘Clayton’s Degree’ – you know, the degree you have when you don’t really have one. Of course you will try to come back and say your adaptation of my nonsense was really a double entrapment designed to catch me, won’t you (but we all know you would have pointed out the flaw at the most immediate opportunity available but you didn’t, did you)?

But wait, there’s more – if I’m a liar as you allege I am then maybe what I’ve just said in the preceding paragraphs are just that – lies? Or maybe there are some truths, half-truths and outright lies mixed together. Or maybe I’m just setting you up again for another drubbing… I’ll leave you to ponder those further thoughts. Hopefully it will draw your attention away from polluting other threads for a little while ;-).

History / Polish contribution to England during war [62]


Because when someone fights and ultimately loses they need to hold onto anything that assures them the fight was not in vain and that some good come out of their struggle.

If Polish perseverance on these subjects offends your Anglo-Saxon sense of humility, then please indulge our intransigence and forgive us for causing you the waste of time, energy and oxygen in typing your protest to our themes of discussion.

History / Polish Christian survivors of WWII oppression tell their stories [4]


I'm not sure how much attention it has received, but I think a largely untouched field of investigation into the effects of WW2 and Stalinist oppression in Poland would surely relate to Polish death by suicide during these periods as a consequence of these events.

For example, my father had two friends who committed suicide in the 1950's because they (he believes) were simply crushed in mind, body and spirit, and couldn't cope, having survived WW2 and then having to live the nightmare of the Stalin years.

I'd be interested to hear if any other members have had family with similar experiences or have been directly touched by suicide committed during WW2 or the Stalinist era. In my opinion, the psychological aspect of 'winning' WW2 then being 'rewarded' with the imposition of an alien and oppresive regime cannot be downplayed or marginalised in this context.

History / Polish contribution to England during war [62]

If memory serves, it was Air Marshall Slessor (or another senior officer) who remarked, in relation to the Polish contribution to the BoB, words to the effect that but for the contribution of Polish aircrews he would hesitate to say that the outcome would have been the same. If we accept this hypothesis (which effectively says the BoB would have been lost without help from the Poles), and if we accept that the loss of the BoB would have precipitated the fall of GB, then yes, England would have been defeated.

The fact remains that England survived the BoB, was not ultimately defeated, and Polish aircrews played a vital part in securing that 'survival' during such a crucial epoch of the war. Absent that Polish contribution, and reasonable lines of assumption would tend to correspond with Slessor's comments.

In that regard, one could even suggest that the detractors of the Polish contribution have the burden of proving that England WOULD NOT have been defeated but for the Polish contribution, rather than the other way round. In other words, if you enter a scrap to help a friend who's getting pounded by an enemy and your friend prevails, the facts stands for themselves that your friend would have been crushed but for your help - res ipsa loquiter.

History / 70th Anniversary of start of WWII [50]


I suspect the allegory to heroism was that in fleeing (and thereby ending up in the armed forces of HMG), many Poles 'heroically' fought for a cause that ended in a return of nil for many of them. With hindsight, the practicality and sense of it is debatable, but the heroism of the motive and intent less so.


To whom?

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

Well said and entirely accurate. It fills me with great pride know that despite being homeless emigres (and therefore entitled to throw in the towel and self preserve), many Poles chose not to, and made the decision to fight on for, and under, GB, whether for altruistic purposes or in the (vain) hope that the contribution would be repaid in kind.


I'm sure that if some of our misconceived forum members read up on battles such as Kutno and Westerplatte they would have a different view.

In fact, having regard to relative strengths vis a vis outcomes, one could be forgiven for submitting that battles such as the abovementioned were, in every respect, paragons of how to fight when you face crushing odds and simply unparalleled in the history of WW2 (arguably military history).

Life / Are Slavs the best dancers in the world? [27]


Undoubtedly.

As a young fella in the early 80's, I was the lynchpin of an 8 child b-boy crew, the "Rock Steady Crew" (yes, we plagiarised heavily, and adopted their names, except for the girl). Our crew was made up of me and 7 other kids who were all of Lebanese and Maltese descent, whereas I was Slavic.

When we 'battled' other crews, and were up against fierce opposition, my mates upped the ante by bouncing me in - my boogaloo shrimp, robot and electric shock usually sealed the deal.

Sadly, I've put away the shell back adidas runners, the RUN-DMC custom ripped muscle shirt and polyester leisure pants, but for 2 summers, in '84 and '85, I ruled Woollongong's underground B-Boy scene ;-)

News / Microsoft Poland whitens a black face in its advert [130]


No, it is an opinion by definition. My position is vindicated.


No, that is not my opinion. Do show me where I have expressed that opinion.

In my opinion however, what is a problem is the way in which some posters on this forum:

a. vilify and taunt female forum members;
b. make unsavoury and sexualised comments regarding female family members of male posters on this forum;
c. threaten physical violence on other forum members.

Do you share my opinion that this is a problem?


Do show me where I have racially abused the English. You can't, can you, because "English" is not a race.


Is this the exchange that you refer to...



I cannot reconcile the above post where you seek to offer me assistance with the sentiments expressed below (I've taken the liberty of italicising the phrase in question)...

Ozi Dan:
Gotta laugh at you mate - there's nothing more fake or absurd than internet bravado from a non entity who has been thoroughly trounced, ridiculed, mocked and ousted to the nether regions of unimportance and hypocrisy.

And your riposte...

You really think that I’d waste the energy needed to give you a slap? You’re not even close to being worth that. I wouldn’t even cross the road to p*ss in your mouth if your teeth were on fire.


How has anything 'struck home' when all I did was point out the fact that you misconceived the proper use of the word "repeated" by failing to add the suffix "ly" and I assisted you by pointing that out.

I've freely admitted that I've never been to Poland, so all you're doing is embarassing yourself further with these types of comments. When I do come however I'll be sure to pick up some of your tourist flyers on my travails. You do still churn them out don't you?


I don't watch the cricket. Am I now meant to think you're cool and approachable because we're both Aussies and you watch the cricket and that will open a common dialogue between us?

Harry May 19, 08, 18:15 #207

Here’s the rub for you ‘Ozi’ I hold an Australian passport but unlike you I choose not to remain in a nation which suppresses the indigenous people. You however remain in a racist nation. So you tell me: who’s the bigot?

Here's the rub for you Harry - if Poland is so full of racists, why do you stay there if you left Australia for the same reasons. So you tell me: who's the hypocrite?

You may be and have many things Harry, but a good memory ain't one of them.

News / Microsoft Poland whitens a black face in its advert [130]


Sorry, that's an opinion, not a fact. Do review the lesson I gave and seem to have to continue to give you on the differences and nuances between fact and opinion.

Now, the facts please...


This little chestnut on racism again eh? Remember how the English are not a race but a nationality? You didn't understand that until I pointed it out to you and your silly Pommie mates.

Do tell me who in particular you allege I have racially abused.

Are you still verbally harassing women on the forum? Oh sorry, I forgot, you're now taunting forum members with comments regarding their female family members.


repeatedly

News / Microsoft Poland whitens a black face in its advert [130]



Try as I might, I can't reconcile these two statements coming from the same person. Can you explain why it's appropriate to suggest words to the effect that the proof or otherwise of your Jewishness requires the presence of Piorun's female family members?


What are the facts you present that require counter-argument?


What aspect of Polish society do you allege they are reflecting?

News / New York Post : "Polish" Death Camps and more [278]


But I'm not asking you to follow my 'argumentation', nor did I ask you for a comparison of Vichy France and post WW2 Stalinist Poland. Given that you have provided no genuine response to my post #118, my position there is vindicated, your subsequent posts are irrelevant and contradictory, and your opinion is based on flawed foundations.


It's been my professional experience that when someone's opinion is challenged and put to the test they will ignore the proposition, obfuscate, fail to respond meaningfully, then come back with a question themselves. Having said that, if you wish to compare apples with oranges, start a new thread and I'd be happy to indulge you.


What a disappointing remark. I think it says more about you and your views than it does the people to whom the comment was intended to offend.

Because you ignored it the first time, I'll reiterate the suggestion that you pop down to your local Polish club and air these views to that forum. Such passion and conviction deserves a personal delivery. Please report back to the forum as to the responses you garner at the Polish club.

Please mate - don't join the lunatic fringe of people who come on this forum bashing Poland its people.

News / New York Post : "Polish" Death Camps and more [278]


Oh, ok - you mean then the executive arm of the post WW2 Polish-Socialist government. If so, wouldn't it be the case then that your lines of enquiry and assumption would best be directed toward the now defunct Soviet oligarchy, given that it was they who imposed political and governmental change on Poland post WW2, unless of course your argument was that the post WW2 Polish-Socialist government found its mandate by way of an organic and popular process? Surely that's an unsustainable argument?

I'll assume that you will adopt the former view (being government imposed by the Soviets), in which case you merely point out the obvious, being that the Polish-Socialist government, under Soviet auspice (and indeed creation) merely echoed and followed orders and in doing so probably does bear an apportionment of responsibility for the crimes and atrocities you quite rightly point out as having been perpetrated.

If so, it begs the question(s) - what are you doing here and what is your point, unless you merely set out to tell us how to suck eggs?

News / New York Post : "Polish" Death Camps and more [278]


Are you saying then that the Polish people per se were responsible or the Polish government?


Have you formed an alliance with Harry? He was born in Australia too and seems to hold similar views.

Have you been to the Polish club in Ashfield? I'm sure your views would find a willing audience there and it would give you the opportunity to ventilate them in front of a live audience, which is eminently more preferrable than posting such important issues as an anonymous expert. Go on then...


G'day mate - great avatar.

History / Inisignia of the Polish Air Force aircraft [28]


The red and white checkers were first used in early C17 as husaria pennants in a similar fashion. I think I read somewhere that the colours represent sky (white) and earth (red) with a religious connotation but I can't recall the exact meaning.


Warranty - couldn't resist old boy ;-)

History / Generał Nil [39]


Have to agree with Isthatu2 that this anecdote is probably bollocks, but we all have our stories;-);-);-). My grand uncle (the one holding the sword in the photo in my profile) rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel in the Brit army before retiring. The difference could be though that he was szlachta and a pulkownik in the Polish army and yours wasn't ;-);-);-)

News / Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces [49]


No need for profanity Mr Highpants.

This obsession of yours will all be settled ONCE YOU PRODUCE A COPY OF THE PURPORTED INVITATION SENT TO THE NON-COMMUNIST POLISH PEOPLE YOU ALLEGE RECEIVED IT BUT DIDN'T SHOW UP.

I've requested production of it previously but you failed to do so.

We can't prove a negative, but you can prove your position. If you don't, you are a liar - it's that simple.

Ball's in your court...

News / Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces [49]

This is all simply untrue and/or exaggerated. Please review the correct state of affairs posted by myself and others on my thread "What did Poland get out of the wars etc etc".

If you insist on asserting to the contrary, please produce a copy of the 'invitation' or a transcript of the verbal invitation to support your claim...

I won't hold my breath though, because as always you will ignore my requests when I put you to the test...

Are you going to mention that operation you are so fond of wherein you say the Polish fleet ran but in reality they put themselves at the disposal of the RN...

Have you placed flowers at the graves of the people I asked you to yet...

Rise to the challenge Harry.

Genealogy / looking for kulczycki [5]

Hi Peter

I have this:

Jozef Kulczycki, 25yo. and a scout, shot with 8 others on 11.11.39 @ Zielonka. My respects if he was family.

History / An apology to Poland from Australia [55]


The 'topic' of the thread you created for 'debate' was nothing more than a thinly disguised attempt at drawing me into another argument with you, wasn't it Mr Highpants. You went to the extraordinary lengths of resurrecting your own long dead thread to try and entice me into your spider web of intrigue - I'm flattered that you hold my views in such high regard. Being the rubbish your thread is though, it has received the responses it so richly deserved.

Speaking of debating skills, or lack of, why don't you traverse and review this entire forum for previous 'debates' we have had and show me just one debate where a genuine argument of yours has prevailed over mine. I'm pretty confident my position will be vindicated...



Hello, is Mr Kettle there? This is Mr Pot.

To be honest Harry, I had a much less humorous riposte to your ham-fisted hit and miss backfire but I thought I'd let you off the hook this time.

(Word to the wise Harry - there's nothing wrong with my spelling, but thanks for giving me the further ammunition!)


I did not say WWII massacre memorials. I said for you to place flowers on the graves of Polish and Polish Jew soldiers who perished in WW2 in Warsaw, particularly AK soldiers. Stop with the obfuscation.

Refer to my previous posts in this thread for what I require of you in this respect.

History / An apology to Poland from Australia [55]


I'm sorry I've caused you such outrage and angst Mr Highpants. I'm chuckling as I visualise you frantically hammering away at the keyboard of your 1988 model Apple Mac II, giving me the e-shaft online and really going for my jugular.

Being the wordsmith you are though, and a fellow Aussie to boot, can you take time out from cleaning the latrines at the New Warsaw Express (you call it 'journalism') and draft write me a written apology (just quietly - I'm counting on you being loose with the truth as you always are, OK)? Once I've proof read it, I will pay you $5, yes $5, to verbally deliver my apology as my agent in a public place in Warsaw. Deal?


Then get that gerbil out of your bum and do so you knuckle dragger! Crikey!! I'm sick of having to remind you!!!


Sadly, I've never had the opportunity, but my uncle has given me photos of my grandfather's cemetery - he died fighting to save the city you call home.

I can say, however, with a bunch of pride that it was my job as a cadet corporal to man the cenotaph on several Anzac Days and assist in the laying of wreaths and various other functions of rememberance.

The diggers and veterans I spoke to at the post formalities 'get togethers' in the RSL club had problems saying my Polish surname but had no problems in fondly remembering the Polish troops they fought with, particularly in N Africa.

I suppose that's the difference between people like me and you Harry. Unlike you, I'm proud of where I came from and I love the country I live in...

Riposte? Something decent this time though, and no hysterics either...

History / Who here lost out because of WW2? [9]


Awesome story. Thank you.

I don't think enough has been told in respect of the issues of identity and persecution concerning Polish/Germans-German/Poles that you elaborate on. That appears to be another sub strata of misery on one end and and (arguably) triumph through adversity on the other. Thanks again ma'am.


Can you elaborate on the loss? What is your situation now?

History / An apology to Poland from Australia [55]


Thank you Harry - coming from someone who said words to the effect that "the only good Pole is a dead Pole", it appears you are redeeming yourself - have you yet placed flowers on the graves of Polish soldiers (INCLUDING JEWISH ONES because you refused previously on this basis) in Warsaw who you see fit to defame and mock? You've avoided this about 4 times now, so please do it.

I recommend you place red and white flowers and utter a few words of thanks to the many who fell trying to save the city you live in, my ancestors included. It would be appropriate to take a few digital photos of your pilgrimage to share with the forum. There's a good lad...


I think we're well past that old chestnut now aren't we? Perhaps review some of my latter posts on my thread about what Poland got out of wars etc for others. The issue in a nutshell was not telling Poland that they had been sold out and continuing to use Polish soldiers thereafter in a forlorn hope.

Your little story fails to mention that Steve and George got a new friend, Ivan. Steve did a shady deal with Ivan... care to finish the rest...

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


I was surprised and disappointed at these comments, particularly from someone such as yourself. It seems I was mistaken and misunderstood your intent and capacity to engage in discussion and critical analysis.

History / What was Polands greatest historical moment? [24]


Yes. The man's nakedness precipitated the event but the virus caused the man's expiry.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


I can't understand all this talk of Soviets being needed to end WW2 as though they were tottering on the verge of pulling out and didn't have a vested interest in continuing the fight.

This type of thinking is, to me, strange, and it just seems to be accepted because that's what the history books say. Analysis and inference through past evidence of what the Soviets actually do (rather than pure speculation) would suggest Stalin would have kept going both east and west.

Could it be that the concessions were made to appease Stalin to not do same (keep going east and west)? I think we'll have to look past what the history books say is the truth and think a bit laterally.

Do you think that the practical effect of those concessions, based on speculation, was worth safeguarding the speculated possibilities? Do you think that those speculations were likely to be borne out?