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Poland Remembers start of WW2


szkotja2007 27 | 1,499  
1 Sep 2009 /  #1
70TH Anniversary remembered

Poland has been holding a day of commemorations to mark the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of World War II.

Leaders from 20 countries laid candles during a ceremony near Gdansk.

Earlier, Polish President Lech Kaczynski criticised the former Soviet Union over responsibility for the war.

His words added to an ongoing row with Moscow, although Russian PM Vladimir Putin said he hoped the two countries could settle their differences.

Mr Kaczynski said Poland had received a "stab in the back" from the former Soviet Union when it invaded and occupied the east of the country as the German army was advancing westwards.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8230678.stm
Genvieve 1 | 21  
1 Sep 2009 /  #2
It's good to remember history in order to learn its many lessons.
Piorun - | 658  
1 Sep 2009 /  #3
It would also help if someone used an authentic map of that period. Did someone just draw this map from memory? Let's play a game, spot what's wrong with it. Published by BBC, it's a shame really.
Noimmig - | 11  
1 Sep 2009 /  #4
I hope polands leader takes time to humbly thank the british for saving them from the nazis.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
1 Sep 2009 /  #5
Actually, the British have to thank Americans as Brits were not in the position to save themselves, let alone help Poland.

Poles owe the British nothing.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590  
1 Sep 2009 /  #6
A reenactment would have been so much cooler....
(like with the Grunwald battle)
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
1 Sep 2009 /  #7
Poles owe the British nothing.

maybe except of the lesson that we can only count on ourselfs and our only friend is a strong polish army
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590  
1 Sep 2009 /  #8
That won't do.....your own army all alone....that is also a lesson.....
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
1 Sep 2009 /  #9
maybe except of the lesson that we can only count on ourselfs and our only friend is a strong polish army

you cannot exactly depend on yourselves, where did it get you?? I'll tell you where, invaded in two weeks flat, lol.

It's good to remember history in order to learn its many lessons

i agree with you but to go over the same thing again and again and again and again, probably not such a good idea as in my experience Poles don't learn from it, they cry and cry and cry about it. Yes they were the victims etc etc but come in we are in 2009, lets move on while at the same time remember the fallen.
wzgrza - | 46  
1 Sep 2009 /  #10
tornado2007

It's people like you, with your mentality why anger continues to erupt from Poles when these topics come up.

"they cry and cry and cry about it. Yes they were the victims etc etc but come in we are in 2009, lets move on while at the same time remember the fallen."

Where are you from?

Sounds like typical rhetoric from our "western allies" who sold us, and stabbed us in the back at the beginning, and end of the war. Of course you would be ashamed of the actions of your governments during this period, and what better way to try and down play and ignore it all, when you can just accuse Poles for "crying" about it.

Perhaps it may not occur to you that these are people, and actual events we are talking about, events that had consequences, consequences that are still being dealt with, and a reality within Poland. 2009 or not, the turn of events during that period has a direct effect on life in Poland today, including the memories of the loss of loved ones who perished during and after the war.

And what better way to remember the start of WWII then comments like "stop crying about and move on, boo hoo, poor Poland"

Maybe you should pick up a history book and read a little on Poland and its role during WWII, and how we were thanked for it all at the end, perhaps you would gain a better understanding of the price that was paid for.... well .. nothing.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Sep 2009 /  #11
Poland will never forget those who die for their cause. I was in Vilnius, Lithuania, at a major cemetery there. There was an unmarked grave for an unknown soldier who fought and died. He had MANY flowers around his grave. Poland will always commemorate unsung heroes who gave their all for their country.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
1 Sep 2009 /  #12
maybe except of the lesson that we can only count on ourselfs

Yeah, that's why there are 100's of 1,000s not depending on the job market in Britain on on benefits.

Av a word with yaself will ya!

.5 million British men gave their lives plus Im not sure how many women and children were burried alive under the rubble of the houses that were bombed, what for? So we can have some ignorant turd say, we owe them nothing, they did nothing...
polishcanuck 7 | 462  
2 Sep 2009 /  #13
I watched some of the ceremonies on tv - bbc world covered most of it live.

Here is a pamphlet that the polish association in the UK is apparently handing out:

i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/polishcanuck/ulotka.jpg

For those of you who can't make out the small lettering, go to [zpwb.org.uk/en/Current_Matters] and open the word file for a larger image.

Also some anti polish posters were put up in the border town of Loeknitz and Goerlitz. BB, was it you?? ;)

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,6991656,Niemcy__An typolskie_plakaty_w_przygranicznej_miejscowosci.html
wzgrza - | 46  
2 Sep 2009 /  #14
ShelleyS

McCoy is refering to Poland being betrayed by Britain and it's "allies" at the beginning, and end of the war.

polishcanuck

Likely the effect of those fliers will only anger the populations in the Western nations about Poland trying to gather all the fame and glory for itself, when in reality, it is only trying to take credit for what credit is due.

Similar to the situation towards the end of the war. The once appreciated, respected, and adored Polish forces fighting alongside the British in the RAF, as well as on the ground, and on the Eastern front, became the problem children of the Allies, when they refused to accept Stalins (abominable) conditions as to the fate of Poland after the war.

How dare those pesky, resilliant, hard-headed, selfish Poles try to stand up for their people, nation, and independance from a tyranical bandit, who not long ago wanted to wipe the nation off the face of the earth.

They werent even allowed to participate in the victory parade in London at wars end.

And people wonder why we are bitter. Their sentiments have changed littler after all this time, and therefore so have the Poles.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
2 Sep 2009 /  #15
Where are you from?

England

Sounds like typical rhetoric from our "western allies" who sold us, and stabbed us in the back at the beginning, and end of the war. Of course you would be ashamed of the actions of your governments during this period, and what better way to try and down play and ignore it all, when you can just accuse Poles for "crying" about it.

i've been through this before, you probably were not on the forums at the time. The ability to help Poland................... it was not possible from a military and logistics point of view. How could we (the UK) have moved that many troops into Poland in time to stop the Germans from when Blitzkreig kicked off, you gave us like two weeks!!!! if that!!!! Secondly we could not support you from the air because we did not have the bombers with the fuel capactity to make a round trip, there was no way we could of got there and back. Thats not even taking into consideration the flight path we would have to take over a lot of German occupied airspace and land, just to reach you. So there are two issues right back at you to start off with.

Perhaps it may not occur to you that these are people, and actual events we are talking about, events that had consequences, consequences that are still being dealt with, and a reality within Poland.

of coruse i realise they are/were people, that is why is said 'remember' never have i suggested that people should be forgotten and disrespected, i just believe that there is a time to move on, or it will never happen. Can you not pay your respects to those lost while moving on at the same time??

2009 or not, the turn of events during that period has a direct effect on life in Poland today, including the memories of the loss of loved ones who perished during and after the war.

Part of the reason it is still 'effecting' life in Poland is because people do not seem to have the ability to move on, Poland could be so much more, if only people would look to the prospect of a bright future rathe than the dull, terrible past. Poland has so much potential that is not being forfilled, i look forward to the day when the generations of today bring into the world a new generation. A generation that remember and respect while at the same time look to the future of a better prosperous Poland.

And what better way to remember the start of WWII then comments like "stop crying about and move on, boo hoo, poor Poland"

I admit maybe this was not the right place to say what i said, i think a day of rememberance is more than called for, however when that just turns into 'we are the victims' 'why Poland' etc etc it goes beyond remembering and respecting the dead. You know what would make the lost proud, if Poland grew in stature, if the people of Poland developed their nation, themselves and their race instead of continually playing the roll of victim.

Maybe you should pick up a history book and read a little on Poland and its role during WWII, and how we were thanked for it all at the end, perhaps you would gain a better understanding of the price that was paid for.... well .. nothing.

please don't insult me by telling me i don't know a thing about WWII or what roll Poland or any other nation played in it. The only thing here is that we have a different point of view about what the people of Poland should be doing when it comes to the dead/lost people of WWII. My idea of honouring their memory is a bit different from yours obviously, you would rather get stuck in the past while i would prefer to move on and give those lost something to be proud of because if there was such a thing as heaven i would want to make them smile rather than continually remind them of their own demise.

Poland will never forget those who die for their cause.

Nore should they!!!! Rememberance is very important when it comes to death and suffering, it may even show you the way to progress.

He had MANY flowers around his grave. Poland will always commemorate unsung heroes who gave their all for their country.

there is nothing wrong with remembering and respecting the dead, i think you know what i'm saying here.
Ironside 49 | 10,315  
2 Sep 2009 /  #16
Respect to fallen heroes!

Honor and Glory
wzgrza - | 46  
2 Sep 2009 /  #17
i've been through this before, you probably were not on the forums at the time. The ability to help Poland................... it was not possible from a military and logistics point of view. How could we (the UK) have moved that many troops into Poland in time to stop the Germans from when Blitzkreig kicked off, you gave us like two weeks!!!! if that!!!! Secondly we could not support you from the air because we did not have the bombers with the fuel capactity to make a round trip, there was no way we could of got there and back. Thats not even taking into consideration the flight path we would have to take over a lot of German occupied airspace and land, just to reach you. So there are two issues right back at you to start off with.

As have I on different forums. The amount of time that it would take for Warsaw to fall was unknown at the time of the attack. It is easier to say now there was not enough time, as we look back and see how things unfolded. The idea I believe was an attack on the German mainland, opening another front, and relieving Poland in that way, not direct bomber attacks on Poland.. as those would be ineffective anyways due to the armies mobility.

But regardless of how..even after Poland fell to the Germans, nothing was done. Then France was attacked. The French are in the same boat, and they bordered Germany. There is a reason they called it the "Phony war". These were promises from France and England if Germany was to attack Poland, they were broken. England and France were our allies, and they never showed up. The entire Western German border was practically wide open, as Hitler concentrated all his forces on Poland. He gambled that France and England would not come to Polands aid, and he was right on the money. Later German generals went to say that they thought the idea was suicide. They practically had no forces between France to Berlin, guarding the German border.

Now the main betrayal happened to Stalin.. after the war. The conference in Tehran and Yalta.

I don't blame individuals in todays world, but facts are facts. I have nothing against the English, French, or even Germans at this point. I just don't like when people won't admit to what is.

Part of the reason it is still 'effecting' life in Poland is because people do not seem to have the ability to move on, Poland could be so much more, if only people would look to the prospect of a bright future rathe than the dull, terrible past. Poland has so much potential that is not being forfilled, i look forward to the day when the generations of today bring into the world a new generation. A generation that remember and respect while at the same time look to the future of a better prosperous Poland.

It is affecting life directly in Poland not in a mental sense, but in a real day to day life. The reason we just had mass migration to the UK, and other EU countries, prior to that the U.S, and a 1.23 fertility rate is owed all to financial reasons. The countries economy while growing, and improving, as well as the unemployment rate, but it is not yet satisfactory. These are the after affects of 40 years of communist rule. Communist rule that was a direct result of our allies allowing Stalin to claim Poland as his own. Just look west of the iron curtain to do a quick compare and contrast.

I can't speak for everybody, but it's not that I like to dwell in the past and feel sorry for myself and my country. It has to do sometimes with the things people say, that arent justified, or fair.

I admit maybe this was not the right place to say what i said, i think a day of rememberance is more than called for, however when that just turns into 'we are the victims' 'why Poland' etc etc it goes beyond remembering and respecting the dead. You know what would make the lost proud, if Poland grew in stature, if the people of Poland developed their nation, themselves and their race instead of continually playing the roll of victim.

I agree with you. But it is not about feeling of being the victims, but about facts. Facts that are sometimes ignored, or sometimes twisted around. 40 years of communist rule inside of Poland and the suppression of Polands achievements in the media, and schools surely contribute to this.

With all this typing all I am saying is that Poland got shafted and betrayed by her allies. FACT.

Poland was the 4th largest army in Europe after the Soviet Union, the UK and the US..

Hell, we werent even allowed to march in the victory parade in London after the war... now on top of everything that happened, if that isnt a slap in the face, I don't know what is..

please don't insult me by telling me i don't know a thing about WWII or what roll Poland or any other nation played in it.

I didnt mean to insult you. I tend to get excited about these topics as I have a big interest in WWII and the things that happened during this time, especially in Poland, so I am a bit more "enthusiastic" I guess then the average person. Mostly people don't agree with me, but then again most of these conversation are with people from the UK, or the US.. so I understand them trying to justify their countries actions, even though we do not agree.
Babinich 1 | 455  
2 Sep 2009 /  #18
that is also a lesson.....

Hey BB...

Did you learn any lessons from 20th Century history?
scrappleton - | 830  
2 Sep 2009 /  #19
Probably, don't wander too far from the camp fire.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590  
2 Sep 2009 /  #20
Did you learn any lessons from 20th Century history?

Two-front wars are baaaaaad idea? Everytime???
Not to kill the natives but rather to employ them???
Moskau is just to far for EVERY supply line???

What do you mean?

.

SEANIE!!!

. BB, was it you?? ;)

I could have done that in Berlin too....

Maybe you should pick up a history book and read a little on Poland and its role during WWII, and how we were thanked for it all at the end, perhaps you would gain a better understanding of the price that was paid for.... well .. nothing

Tornado is around this forum for alot longer than you...believe me....he heard all about already several times....
scrappleton - | 830  
2 Sep 2009 /  #21
Two-front wars are baaaaaad idea? Everytime???
Not to kill the natives but rather to employ them???
Moskau is just to far for EVERY supply line???

What do you mean?

Touchy, touchy.. we just wanted advice for a good pils.
Wroclaw Boy  
2 Sep 2009 /  #22
McCoy:
maybe except of the lesson that we can only count on ourselfs and our only friend is a strong polish army
you cannot exactly depend on yourselves, where did it get you?? I'll tell you where, invaded in two weeks flat, lol.

How dare you post such a thing on such a day in such a thread? You cheeky bastad, let alone the fact that you totally missed McCoy's point and came back with slur worthy of Noimigration. WTF

I'll tell you where, invaded in two weeks flat, lol.

Its not invaded its occupied and now youre an expert on war too are you? How long do you think Great Britian could hold out if we were being attacked from both sides by arguably two of the greatest land fighting forces in the world and with no Channel?

You should probably stick to chatting with the birds of PF and leave the real chat for proper men.
Lir  
2 Sep 2009 /  #23
How dare you post such a thing on such a day in such a thread?

Well said WB.

An interesting link someone sent me, thought it may be worth putting onto this thread.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_culture_during_World_War_II
Babinich 1 | 455  
2 Sep 2009 /  #24
What do you mean?

You know exactly what I mean.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
2 Sep 2009 /  #25
good pils

Warsteiner, Veltins, DAB...

Prefer Weiszenbier though:

Franciskaner, Paulaner, etc, etc.

M-G (yum!)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590  
2 Sep 2009 /  #26
A reenactment and afterwards party with pils? How does that sound???
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
2 Sep 2009 /  #27
As long as we have fun, everything will be alright ;)

M-G (hungry)
scrappleton - | 830  
2 Sep 2009 /  #28
A reenactment and afterwards party with pils

Okay, just don't steal any Ukranian hogs to roast like last time.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590  
2 Sep 2009 /  #29
We did???
Man, we were even worse than I thought...
scrappleton - | 830  
2 Sep 2009 /  #30
We did??? Man, we were even worse than I thought

Yeah man.. When you invaded Ukraine. Stole food etc. Actually senior officers didn't want to treat Ukraine that way but Koch? and Hitler thought it was a good idea.

It was in this documentary I just bought: War-Century-Hitler-Fought-Stalin

Best documentary I've ever seen.. watched it several times. The best is when they interview these old German / Russian soldiers. British filmakers kind of try and shame them and these old guys dont apologize for a damn thing either. Despite all the atrocities, I couldn't help but respect the hell out of these old soldiers.

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