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Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'?


Harry  
2 Feb 2009 /  #1
SOne of the Second World War's most enduring conspiracy theories has been laid to rest after Polish investigators probing the mysterious death of the country's wartime leader, General Wladyslaw Sikorski, concluded that there was no evidence of foul play when he died in a plane crash.

Forensic experts in the Polish city of Krakow said that all the evidence from a post mortem on the general's remains indicated that he had died from "trauma to internal organs caused by an accident".

Investigators also revealed that the general had a fractured eye socket, broken ribs, a shattered thigh bone, and that they had found a splinter of wood embedded in his skull.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/4387372/Polands-wartime-leader-General-Sikorski-not-victim-of-foul-play.html

Seems a bit strange to read that after reading

We may finally know the truth about how our General died, and how he was probably betrayed by our British and American 'allies.'

Everybody knows that British are what they are. They needed Poles they were nice they didn't need Sikorski they have killed him.

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/history/wladyslaw-sikorski-remains-exhumed-29640/

Stranger still is that none of the people who posted about how the foul British murdered this honourable Pole have the decency to come here and apologies for their slurs....
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
2 Feb 2009 /  #2
That proves nothing as It is unknown If the crash was an accident or not. Besides... ugly crea... If you had to apologize for the racist sh*t you spread here that would have to take you whole days.
sjam 2 | 541  
2 Feb 2009 /  #3
That proves nothing as It is unknown If the crash was an accident or not.

I agree. It only proves that Sikorski wasn't murdered prior to being in the plane not that the plane crash itself was not sabotaged.... I still firmly believe if anyone was responsible then it was ultra right-wing factions of Sikorski's own government that initiated sabotage the aircraft rather than British or Soviets... but that's just my theory to add to all the others.
OP Harry  
2 Feb 2009 /  #4
That proves nothing as It is unknown If the crash was an accident or not.

Guess it must be hard for you to understand the bit which says "trauma to internal organs caused by an accident".
But at least we won't have to listen to anymore of your drivel about how Sikorski was shot/poisoned/stabbed/strangled by the British. Nor about how it wasn't actually his body that was given to the Poles.

Besides... ugly crea... If you had to apologize for the racist sh*t you spread here that would have to take you whole days.

Do explain how it is racist to point out that not all Poles are wonderfully nice people.

Or rather don't. Just post your usual bitter race-baiting anti-semitic lies. Those are much more entertaining.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,257  
2 Feb 2009 /  #5
I agree. It only proves that Sikorski wasn't murdered prior to being in the plane not that the plane crash itself was not sabotage.

I don't think they did need sabotage to make planes crash....lot's of planes crashed and people died...famous ones too....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_in_aviation-related_incidents
Bzibzioh  
2 Feb 2009 /  #6
Do explain how it is racist to point out that not all Poles are wonderfully nice people.

You are pointing MUCH more than that.
OP Harry  
2 Feb 2009 /  #7
Do feel free to give an example.

I don't think they did need sabotage to make planes crash....lot's of planes crashed and people died...famous ones too....

Yes but those don't count. The only reason that Sikorski's plane could have crashed is clearly because the British sabotaged it (because he was so sure to die in the crash there was no need to kill him first and just put his body in the plane). Just as the only reason Poland was over-run in 1939 was that the British didn't help enough, and the only reason Poland was occupied by the Soviets was because the British didn't help enough and the only etc etc ad nauseam.
sjam 2 | 541  
2 Feb 2009 /  #8
Maybe Sikorski was just an unlucky guy as there were two previous times involving him and aircraft.
Once when an explosive device was found on board a plane he was travelling on almost a year before the Katyn graves were discovered —the latter event which is always held out as a reason for silencing Sikorski by the British or the Soviets. The other was I believe control failure so Sikorski's aircraft was forced back to base, again much earlier.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
2 Feb 2009 /  #9
anti-semitic

LOL ! I guess any thread without this magic word would be a wasted thread.
Husaria - | 15  
2 Feb 2009 /  #10
I don't understand why Harry bothers with his"British did help Poland" attitude. Considering the whole nation firmly believes in the western betrayal idea i think it might hold some merit. But than again Harry thinks Poles are idiot farmers that curse everyone else for their problems be they Jews,Brits,French,Germans or Russians.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
2 Feb 2009 /  #11
Harry i must ask you, what is your purpose here ? You're obviously a troll, you post here most of the time in an anti-polish fashion, its bloody clear that you do not like us or our country so why post here ?

Just please dont go "i have nothing against you" because so many of your posts reek of arrogant bullshit that attempts to be insulting without vulgarity so why are you here ? I'm by no means kicking you out and even if i had the power to i wouldnt but i'm curious why post on a forum belonging to the people you dislike or maybe even hate ?
pgtx incognito  
2 Feb 2009 /  #12
That proves nothing as It is unknown

right...
give something more... would you....

You're obviously a troll, you post here most of the time in an anti-polish fashion, its bloody clear that you do not like us or our country so why post here ?

nothing new...

i'm curious why post on a forum belonging to the people you dislike or maybe even hate ?

who cares???
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
2 Feb 2009 /  #13
who cares???

I do, the guy goes out of his way to smear all things polish in shit, i'm curious as to why ? Maybe a Pole got his job ? A polish girl denied him ?
pgtx incognito  
2 Feb 2009 /  #14
A polish girl denied him ?

never...

but

as long as we won't have any "hard" evidence what has happened to him... everybody just shut up....
OP Harry  
3 Feb 2009 /  #15
I don't understand why Harry bothers with his"British did help Poland" attitude.

Probably because Britain did help Poland. Britain didn't just stab her ally in the back and steal half her country (as Poland had done to her ally in the war she had most recently fought).

Considering the whole nation firmly believes in the western betrayal idea i think it might hold some merit.

One might venture to observe that in 1943 the whole German nation firmly believed that Jews were untermenschen and so you think that the idea might hold some merit, but I wouldn't care to venture that observation myself.

You're obviously a troll, you post here most of the time in an anti-polish fashion, its bloody clear that you do not like us or our country so why post here ?

I actually do like Poland. That's why I choose to live in Poland. I also rather like Poles (although the Plastic Pole version that tend to clog this place up are another matter).

i'm curious why post on a forum belonging to the people you dislike or maybe even hate ?

Somebody should post the truth now and again, even if the society doesn't want to face up to that particular truth.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
3 Feb 2009 /  #16
Probably because Britain did help Poland. Britain didn't just stab her ally in the back and steal half her country (as Poland had done to her ally in the war she had most recently fought).

How did Britain help Poland ?

One might venture to observe that in 1943 the whole German nation firmly believed that Jews were untermenschen and so you think that the idea might hold some merit, but I wouldn't care to venture that observation myself.

However while there is no basis to the theory that Jews are subhuman there's lots of facts supporting the claim that allies bent Poland over and fucked her raw.

Somebody should post the truth now and again, even if the society doesn't want to face up to that particular truth.

Its reasonable to suspect that Sikorski was murdered, he was a very uncomfortable person for many, its not reasonable however to say Brits did it, it could be anyone, Russians, Americans, Brits, lots of people saw his death as good business.

The only thing that was proven was that he wasnt killed outside the plane crash, the crash itself might well have been engineered, by whom ? We may find out if UK ever discloses the documents regarding the case.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
3 Feb 2009 /  #17
if UK ever discloses the documents regarding the case.

Yeah? what happened there?.

I have heard this story many times about Sikorski being assassinated in the helicopter in Gibraltar.
Then these documents were meant to be released by Britain after fifty years but they weren't, why not?.

That basically sums up my conversations on this topic.
I have never looked into it until right now.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
3 Feb 2009 /  #18
UK has a pretty large stash of documents regarding Sikorsky, its possible that there's something about his death there, they implied they'd release them early but then changed their mind, off the top of my head its still 70 or 80 years before they disclose them, why ? No idea.
plk123 8 | 4,150  
3 Feb 2009 /  #19
I do, the guy goes out of his way to smear all things polish in shit, i'm curious as to why ? Maybe a Pole got his job ? A polish girl denied him ?

because it may be good for you to see that poland isn't all that? just a though.

Probably because Britain did help Poland. Britain didn't just stab her ally in the back and steal half her country (as Poland had done to her ally in the war she had most recently fought).

what? who? sorry but no go on the english help. when england finally decided that it ought to then the americans didn't help.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
4 Feb 2009 /  #20
because it may be good for you to see that poland isn't all that? just a though.

I 'know' its not all that i live here.

when england finally decided that it ought to then the americans didn't help.

England or western allies in general never helped Poland during WW 2 unless we're talking about equiping polish units which was really just helping themselves, apart from that Poland never received any help whatsoever.
Bzibzioh  
4 Feb 2009 /  #21
Probably because Britain did help Poland.

Harry, we all know by now that you are very attached to that thought and it means a lot to you. If it gives you comfort keep believing. But in this point you become as ridicules as Crow with his pan Slavic nonsense.
sjam 2 | 541  
4 Feb 2009 /  #22
England or western allies in general never helped Poland during WW 2 unless we're talking about equiping polish units which was really just helping themselves, apart from that Poland never received any help whatsoever.

In but one example...you obviously do not know of Britain's S.O.E help for Poland in training of cichociemni special force paratroops of the Polish underground army?

Britain also gave safe haven for the Polish-government-in-exile which it did not have to. Remembering also that Hitler did not want a war with Britain at all....Hitler admired the British..a small nation which had built and administered a vast empire which is what the Nazis wanted for tehmselves in Eastern Europe and Europea Russia. The fact is the Nazis made numerous advances for a peace with Britain which it declined in order to support its ally Poland (and other nations of Europe) in the defeat of Nazi Germany. One cannot argue that this was not so.

So not "really just helping themselves" at all. In fact one could argue that the Polish-government-in-exile did not help Poland as it was divided by factional in-fighting of political self-interest which ultimately led to its own abandonment by the western allies.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
4 Feb 2009 /  #23
In but one example...you obviously do not know of Britain's S.O.E help for Poland in training of cichociemni special force paratroops of the Polish underground army

Wait you mean a training camp with a few shacks is helping Poland ?

Britain also gave safe haven for the Polish-government-in-exile which it did not have to.

Given that the polish goverment became the goverment in exile because France and England refused to attack Germany as they were obliged thats not really help, more of a result of earlier negligence.

Remembering also that Hitler did not want a war with Britain at all....Hitler admired the British..a small nation which had built and administered a vast empire which is what the Nazis wanted for tehmselves in Eastern Europe and Europea Russia.

And then came Churchill who understood Hitler much better than you and knew that whatever Hitler wanted or not was a momentary sentiment, regimes that thrive on war do not stop, ever.

England was next and everyone with a brain to them knew it, thats why they didnt surrender.

The fact is the Nazis made numerous advances for a peace with Britain which it declined in order to support its ally Poland

Again rubbish, England turned Hitlers peace offer down because they understood that once Russia is destroyed there will be nothing stoping Hitler from hanging a swastika from Buckingham Palace, Hitler claimed he didnt want war with Britain but lets face it Nazi regime needed war to roll and guess who's the natural enemy once Russia is gone ?

UK didnt fight for others, it fought for itself.

In fact one could argue that the Polish-government-in-exile did not help Poland as it was divided by factional in-fighting of political self-interest which ultimately led to its own abandonment by the western allies.

Divided between whom ? 90% of ethnic Poles supported the exiled goverment and the home army, you might be referring to the peoples battalions which were a tiny fringe organization and grew only when the Soviets arrived, there was no division in Poland untill it was enforced by the Russians and received an approving nod from Britain.

Both Britain and France turned out to be absolutely useless allies, first failing to provide any military help whatsoever and then selling Poland out at every possible turn, they did help a few odd groups of soldiers but by and large there was no political or military help for Poland.

They first watched Poland fall and then sold it out, repeatedly.
sjam 2 | 541  
4 Feb 2009 /  #24
Wait you mean a training camp with a few shacks is helping Poland ?

Maybe if you like I can give you former cichociemni gen. Stefan 'starba' Bałuk's Warsaw correspondence address as I know him quite well and also Mr. Zibigniew Zielińnski former secretary of state for veteran affairs in Polish governement... I am sure either of the honourable gentlemen will be only to happy to help with your education especially regarding Britain's help to Poland WWII ;-)

England turned Hitlers peace offer down because they understood that once Russia is destroyed there will be nothing stoping Hitler from hanging a swastika from Buckingham Palace, Hitler claimed he didnt want war with Britain but lets face it Nazi regime needed war to roll and guess who's the natural enemy once Russia is gone ?

Fantasy not fact....and you accuse me of offering opinion not fact..........now who is a troll?

Divided between whom ? 90% of ethnic Poles supported the exiled goverment

I guess as English maybe your second language you have not understood my troll-like english...my text clearly alludes to the well documented divisions within the Polish-government-in-exile and it is a fact that there were many.... for example Sikorski was vehemently opposed by Sosnkowski and others in far-right over any dealings with USSR... as a consequence they were all too busy in-fighting to form an effective voice within the western allies... ultimately to the detriment of Poland.

The fact that the legal Polish government was in London and not in Poland led directly to the imposition of the Stalin backed regime of Polish communists in Poland.

I can recommend "General Anders and the soldiers of the second Polish Corps by Harvey Sarner" or 'Poland in the Second World War by Józef Garlińksi as being well researched works from primary sources which conatins much information about the political disunity in the Polish-government-in-exile which you might find educational reading ;-)

Back to my cave....troll' lol' lol......
OP Harry  
4 Feb 2009 /  #25
Given that the polish goverment became the goverment in exile because France and England refused to attack Germany as they were obliged thats not really help, more of a result of earlier negligence.

Do stop with the lies. The UK did not refuse to attack Germany and it was under no obligation to do so anyway. Read the treaty in question and you might not sound like a complete moron.

England was next and everyone with a brain to them knew it, thats why they didnt surrender.

England was most certainly not next. The Nazi focus was on the East and building a vast empire there, not on fighting with fellow Aryan nations.

Again rubbish, England turned Hitlers peace offer down because they understood that once Russia is destroyed there will be nothing stoping Hitler from hanging a swastika from Buckingham Palace, Hitler claimed he didnt want war with Britain but lets face it Nazi regime needed war to roll and guess who's the natural enemy once Russia is gone ?

Despite your masterly summation, the Nazi regime did not need war “to roll”. Read a little about what the Nazis actually wanted and you might learn something.

Both Britain and France turned out to be absolutely useless allies, first failing to provide any military help whatsoever and then selling Poland out at every possible turn, they did help a few odd groups of soldiers but by and large there was no political or military help for Poland.

As is traditional at these times, I will ask the question that no Pole has ever answered, despite many being asked it: what would you like the UK to have done in September/October 1939 that it did not do?
djf 18 | 166  
4 Feb 2009 /  #26
Sokrates

Bitch slapped!!! :-P

Well done sjam!
Prince 15 | 590  
4 Feb 2009 /  #27
polandinexile.com/vp2.htm

Winston Churchill added: "Her Majesty's government will never forget the debt they owe to the Polish troops who have served them so valiantly and for all those who have fought under our command"

Yet only six years later the Poles, who were so instrumental to the allied war effort (including The Battle of Britain; Monte Casino; Falaise Gap, Normandy; Warsaw Uprising), were forgotten. Those brave Polish servicemen, unlike every other nation fighting under Allied Command, were not invited to participate in the Victory Parade due to pressure from Stalin on the British Labour Government.An act the historian Sir John Keegan described as "one of the most shameful acts of the Cold War"

Three years ago the son of a Polish Veteran, Michael Moszynski, heard about this for the first time. Moved by the injustice of it all, he determined to put things right and wrote to the Prime Minister. As a private citizen he managed to secure an apology from Tony Blair regarding the British Government's failure to invite the Polish armed forces to the 1946 Victory Parade (covered in the FT on 5th September 2003: "UK finally makes amends for Poland's 60 years of hurt").

Very good book

amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/0375411976
OP Harry  
4 Feb 2009 /  #28
Yet only six years later the Poles, who were so instrumental to the allied war effort (including The Battle of Britain; Monte Casino; Falaise Gap, Normandy; Warsaw Uprising), were forgotten.

Not these same tired old lies again! For the three thousandth time: Polish servicemen were invited to the London Parade. They chose not to turn up. Not matter how many times Poles repeat the lie that they were not invited, it will never become the truth.

And as for the 'apology', it reads as follows: "The Polish units serving in the British Armed Forces played a distinguished and gallant part in WWII and it is fitting that their contribution should be honoured and remembered. We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade."

When is Poland going to write a letter to Ukraine apologising for stealing half of Ukraine and oppressing the people there after Poland stabbed Ukraine in the back while the two nations were supposed to be fighting together against the Russians.
sjam 2 | 541  
4 Feb 2009 /  #29
polishforcesmemorial.com - New Polish Forces War Memorial in Britain- Sept.2009.
Prince 15 | 590  
4 Feb 2009 /  #30
Harry you are troll using diffenrent nick names on this forum ... but just read this book.

amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/0375411976

It is good that some Brrits and Americans write honest history books about Poland... British have tendency to believe only for "their" authors so fortuantly there are some.

When is Poland going to write a letter to Ukraine apologising for stealing half of Ukraine and oppressing the people there after Poland stabbed Ukraine in the back while the two nations were supposed to be fighting together against the Russians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lwów_Eaglets

Lwów Eaglets (Polish: Orlęta Lwowskie) is a term of affection applied to the Polish child soldiers who defended the city of Lwów during the Polish-Ukrainian War (1918-1919).

Originally the term was applied exclusively to young volunteers (such as Antoni Petrykiewicz), who had participated in the defense of Lwów during the city's siege by the Ukrainian army from November 1 to November 22, 1918. With time, however, the term's application was broadened, and it is now used for all the young soldiers who fought in the area of Eastern Galicia in defense of Poland in the Polish-Ukrainian War


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