Generał Nil

The film about Gen. August Fieldorf, one of our greatest heros murdered by the communists, is about to be shown in Poland.

No one who was responsible for this crime has been brought to justice. Why not?

Some of the criminals are alive and well living among us in Poland and Israel. Were they not different than the Nazi henchmen? Why are we not talking about the crimes perpetrated on the Polish patriots? Where is justice?

This program was recently shown on Polish TV(at 10:50 p.m.??!!) and tried to answer this question.

If you don't understand Polish, you are at a disadvantage, but bear with us, and you may learn something.

tvp.pl/publicystyka/tematyka-spoleczna/warto-rozmawiac/wideo/potomkowie-polskich-bohaterow-01042009

Watch and please comment.

Some background: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_August_Fieldorf

Maybe you could start a private legal petition against the Polish government as this is where any responsibilty rests to prosecute these state crimes?

What are the Statute of Limitations laws in Poland?

I think it has been posted elsewhere (by Harry?) that Israel has 25 year Statute of Limitations law but I may be misquoting here.

Presumably Poland has an extradition treaty with Israel for those perpetrators who may living there? But for those in Poland presumably arrest warrants have never been issued? Maybe Poles prefer not to look into this to deeply as they might not like to know how many Poles could be implicated in the entire sad process—from arrest, torture to state murder.

I know that under international law there is no statute of limitations for war crimes but I guess this may not cover the state murder of Fieldorf. Unless at this time Poland was considered to be in a 'civil' war; which many academics believe it was. Is a crime such as this under 'civil' war a war crime? I would argue it was, and Feildorf was a 'prisoner of war' therefore no statute of limitations should apply.

Interestingly in 2008 the Israelli Knesset approved a law stating that there will be no statute of limitations on crimes relating to the assassination of a prime minister; I think specifically one of their PMs.


or maybe the majority of Poles simply couldn't give a damn about this issue?

Israel's extradition law would preclude any prosectutions of alledged perpetrators in Feildorf's state murder.

It isn't a matter of statute of limitations. Leaving Israel aside, Nil's daughter has been trying to get these people prosecuted for 20 years. IPN has filed charges and the courts have been rejecting them ruling that the Stalinist prosecutors and judges were acting according to the then existing laws. This argument is weak because Nil, Home Army's(AK) top general, was sentenced and executed by hanging under a 1944 law against Nazi criminals??!! The decision to arrest and murder him, and hundreds of others, was made in Moscow and was illegal. It is agreed now that the PRL government can not be called Polish as the country was not soverign but under Soviet rule.

As a side note, but an important one, that is why it insults us Poles when people like Harry and you sometimes, who do not understand or refuse to understand this concept carry on about Poland did this or that when the country was invaded and a puppet government installed by force. Polish People's Republic was not Polish - the decisions were made in Moscow.

Coming back to Nil. Why in today's Poland the courts refuse to prosecute these criminal's? The court's have not been reformed. There hasn't been a clean break from the previous system. There hasn't been a non-left government in power for long enough to make changes. As you may be aware there are continuous efforts to close down IPN or drastically limit it. It is shameful. The communists have not left; they just changed their ties from red ones to blue ones. The courts are protecting their friends.


As if our opinion carries a lot of weight with the Justice Department.

Here are the names of the perps:

• Prokurator Helena Wolińska-Brus vel Fajga Mindlak-Danielak
• Prokurator Benjamin Wajsblech.
• Prokurator Witold Gatner
• Prokurator Paulina Kern
• Sędzia Maria Gurowska vel Górowska, a właściwie Maria Sand
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Emil Merz,
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Gustaw Auscaler
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Igor Andrejew
• Wicedyrektor Departamentu III Generalnej Prokuratury Alicja Graff
• Obrońca z urzędu Jerzy Mering

Nil's daughter said that several Polish judges refused to participate and by coinsidence all of the above but one are Jewish and one Homo Soviticus.

Hang on a minute? Do Poles not freely elect their own government these days?
Do Poles not know who was a former communist 'lackey' or not when they fill out the ballot papers? Don't the Polish government appoint the senior judges at the Justice Department and the head of IPN and similar organisations? If not why not—seems Poland needs to get its political and governmental system in order first; no wonder no one has been prosecuted; Polish Jews or otherwise!


Where did all the Poles go? Did they all go and live in USA?


I can see the logic of the legal argument, if state torture and murder was within the laws of communist Poland. But again if this was such a big issue for the majority of Poles, why don't Poles vote in a government that will turf the court officials out of office and change the laws re culpability for state crimes in communist Poland?

What ongoing political campaigns are there to change the situation?

And then the decisions were carried out by Poles. But we must not blame those Poles (except the ones who are Jews, obviously, those things are not Poles)! The Poles were only following orders!

Yawn. Here comes the good old Nuremberg defense yet again. When is 1Jola going to learn that "I was only following orders" is not acceptable as a defense?


1Jola did. He abandoned Poland in her hour of need. But that won't stop him banging on and on and on and on and on about Polish patriots.

Give me their names or you lie ?


Movie with her speach you are right :

youtube.com/watch?v=5t__JmSZmYM

Here are some examples:
• Prokurator Helena Wolińska-Brus vel Fajga Mindlak-Danielak
• Prokurator Benjamin Wajsblech.
• Prokurator Witold Gatner
• Prokurator Paulina Kern
• Sędzia Maria Gurowska vel Górowska, a właściwie Maria Sand
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Emil Merz,
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Gustaw Auscaler
• Sędzia Sądu Najwyższego Igor Andrejew
• Wicedyrektor Departamentu III Generalnej Prokuratury Alicja Graff
• Obrońca z urzędu Jerzy Mering

And to that list we can add the names of the commanders of the Polish post-WWII concentration camp commanders, etc etc.

Well, the communists did a good job on the nation. They elected communist Kwaśniewski for two terms (1995-2005) and the communist SLD as majority in Parliament. You know, the real Poles are few and the ones who fought for independent Poland consider what has happened after 1989 as high treason.


They are the same people. Like I said before, there was a chance in 1993 to replace all that scum during the six-month Olszewski (PM)government. They would have been all removed, but Wałęsa, Tusk, Kwaśniewski, Pawlak, Niesiołowski, Mazowiecki basically removed the PM in a midnight vote in the Parliament. They were affraid of Lustration.

Then in 2006 there was a chance for PiS to do something but they lacked majority in the Parliament. Their reign was ineffective. Now we are back with the same crews and business as usual on the glorious way to new socialism, EU style.


The IPN can bring charges; the courts decide. You see the result. Not one conviction for communist crimes. PO and SLD would love to shut down this organization. They have a lot of members with dirty secrets in their files.


I will have to keep repeating that there was never a real break. The communists only shared the power but remained in control of all the important sectors.


No, many were dumped a few hundred meters from where I sit now in an unmarked hole - like Pilecki, Fieldorf and many others. One of those Stalinist judges signed 178 death sentences.


Maybe you can, but the concensus among scholars, historians, and legal authorities call that period a Soviet occupation with a puppet regime. BTW, the Soviet army only left Poland in 1997.


It is only an issue for patriots; the rest preffers to amuse themselves with "Dance with the Stars."


Patrotism is out; cosmopolitan multi-cultural socialism is in. Where have you been?

Of course not.

Harry,

After 14 years in Poland you do understand Polish, don't you?

Watch the program in the original post and then comment.


Like Solmon Morel?

This thread is about Nil so try not to spam it with your nonsense.

And Czesław Gęborski. Funny how you always forget that guy. Accused of worse crimes than Morel but Poland decided to stop his trial because he was feeling a bit ill.


So why is it an issue for you? You are clearly not a Polish patriot: a patriot would never choose to abandon his country in search of a more comfortable life in the USA. You abandoned Poland, so don't play the patriot now.

Get off my thread you idiot.

^ Stop using the Nuremberg defense to defend anything and everything wrong done by Poles (apart from the Jews of course).

So are you suggesting that Poles were too dumb to vote for anyone other that the good old communist lackies then? There were no opposition parties to choose from? None at all? How sad there were so few Polish patriots who were democrats to offer themselves for election. Oh well there's always next time I guess, or will Poland always be under the communist yoke?


Maybe not you, maybe just your parents (as you were a kid when took you to USA to escape the regime) but he has got a point really you must be disappointed they were not to have been involved with the patriotic democracy movement in Poland? I guess Poland will win out one day, with your help of course, now your back in Poland — go for it I say :-)))

Don't worry I'll boot me off your thread ;-)))

In the TV program I linked to there is a scene where they ask what has the Justice Dept. been doing then. You see an elderly AK soldier(Szare Szeregi) in uniform who fought in the Warsaw Uprising in his flat full of militaria. Great stuff collected over the years. His flat was raided by CBA and his collection of firearms given to him by his veteran friends confistated although they all had the barrels drilled through and were clearly inoperative. He says he does not feel that he lives in Poland he had fought for. Sad indeed.

Sjam,

You have contact with Polish veterans in the UK, I believe. Instead of anonymously telling me that my parents weren't patriots, why don't you tell the veterans to their face who moved to the UK that they are not patriots and report to us on the outcome of that conversation. Best of luck.

This is a good point, and is one that I have spoken with veterans about previously even my own father when he was alive.

So I can report back:

The Polish Forces that were either stationed in the UK or were in western Europe and Italy during WWII swore a military oath of allegiance to the the Polish-government-in-Exile, which you might not know, was based in London after the fall of France.

After Yalta conference, the USA and Britain de-recognised the legitimate government of Poland based in London in favour of the communist Lublin puppet regime in Poland. However the Polish-government-in-exile quite rightly refused to accept this position as they were of course still the legal government of sovereign Poland and remained in London despite the recognition of the Lublin committee by the British.

The British decided that the Poles must be demobilised however General Anders was quite clear that Polish Forces were still under military oath to the Polish-government-in-exile despite whatever the British thought or did. General Anders firmly believed, as did his forces, that in the period after WII a war would break out between the USA and the USSR so his forces were best placed outside of Poland for this eventuality.

Anders plan to deploy all the Polish Forces from Italy, the UK and Europe in Germany in 1946 was naturally thwarted by the British and Americans. But Anders and his men remained loyal, bound by their oath, to their government. (BTW. Anders also tried to set up a military alliance with Franco in Spain as he believed Spain would become the western front of this impending war with USSR. Franco let Anders set-up an anti-communist propaganda broadcasting station in Spain, and discussed a Catholic alliance against the USSR and the stationing of Polish troops in Spain).

So there was no question over the patriotism of the Polish Forces in UK after the war, they remained loyal to their government though this was based in London. Many of these veterans were active in keeping the hope of a free Poland akive in the minds of the "west'. Without their support and efforts nobody (not even in Poland) would have known anything during the communist regime about Poland's contribution to the Allied victory over the Nazis.

Your parents were merely some of the 750,000 Polish economic migrants that left communist Poland during 1960s to 80's for the USA were they not? You said they applied to leave Poland behind and communist Poland agreed to let them go. Why aren't you questioning them about their lack of the patriotism that you seem to prize so highly now?

They are dead and your personal remarks are getting tired, but do ask those Poles in the UK if they would consider Poles who never joined the communists and emigrated from Poland somehow unpatriotic. On the other hand, I spend time on Her Majesty's soil ready to defend her subjects like you, have you?

There is something else however. From your post it is clear that you understand that the People's Poland was an ilegitimate Soviet puppet regime. Next time Harry acts up, do get all indignant and explain it to him.

You forgot to add that if so many Poles hadn't collaborated so willingly with the regime, it wouldn't have been able to survive the best part of half a century.

Out of interest, were you 18 before or after 1989? And did you return to Poland before or after that date?

No argument there. They were traitors and treason is punishable.


Out of interest you should watch the program in the OP.

So you will agree that Poland had a communist regime because of the actions of Poles?


From that bit of issue dodging it is clear that you were 18 before 1989 and you returned to Poland after 1989. How does that square with you being a good patriot? Why did you stay away from your motherland once she had become a free country? Although we could equally easily ask why you didn't return to your motherland before she became free so that you could fight for her freedom.

Harry, you just don't get it Poland isn't free! It still remains firmly in the grip of the communists that Poles appear to be unable to dislodge no matter who they voted for since 1989. The elections have been rigged to keep the 'commies' in power.

These wily old communists are such political chameleons that Poles like 1jola can't distinguish them from true democrats so they just keep getting voted back in to power.

Maybe they should be rounded up; forced to wear a big red star on their clothes and be herded into special 'social' camps where they can be kept an eye on?? Then Poland would at last be free!


This seems to have lost something in translation to me?

Her Majesty's soil is Britain.

Her subjects are UK citizens like you.

People who defend this soil and its citizens are soldiers.

Were you or are you just a keyboard warrior? It is not necessary to ask Harry that since he doesn't claim any nationality.


You and Sjam work for the same outfit? What is it?

So you are a British soldier now? Well full respect! I am totally behind our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan; unlike a number of our fellow citizens.

Have I ever served as a soldier? Almost but no.

When I was a teenager, my when I was a teenager, father wanted me to follow his footsteps (like father's do) and join the British Army. So he applied on my behalf to Officer Cadet School, which at the time was based in Dover, but as he was Polish (and despite being a serving soldier in British Forces himself) I was excluded from selection because I wasn't 100% British origin! Rules were rules and the officer class was very British only. My father was told by his regimental commander that no matter what he achieved in service he would never rise rank to be a commisioned officer as he was Polish!

No, I wasn't a British soldier, but I spent two years in East Anglia as a US soldier. Patriotism takes many forms but one must choose sides.

You mean you joined the army of a foreign power instead of the Polish army? Wouldn't that be rather close to treason?

Personally I served as a Captain in the Kuwaiti army but that was an accident.

The only thing you served is Happy Meals in McDonalds, you stateless troll.

Boll*x...


again,boll*x.Look at a long list of post war senior officers in all 3 services and you will see as well as dozens of Poles names from every corner of the globe....maybe its just a no whingers rule you fell victim to...


I live here but Im no krauts subject....us true brits tend to leave that sort of thing to you europeans,you seem more used to it....

1Jola, we've already discussed that I can not be stateless, given that I hold multiple passports and qualify for several more. I'm very interested to learn how you can consider yourself to be a Polish patriot when you joined the army of a foreign power. Wouldn't a true patriot have fought for Poland and not for the land he fled to? And wouldn't a true patriot who considered his country occupied by a foreign power have fought for the freedom of his country or at least have returned to the homeland he had abandoned as soon as his country became free again?

Do feel free to simply insult me again if you wish to show that you have no answers to these questions.

Well that is just your opinion. Mine is direct experience of which you can have no knowledge.

I still remember when Sjam called openly for murder of Polish babies, disregard his posts he's anti-Polish.