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New York Post : "Polish" Death Camps and more


scorpio 20 | 188  
20 Jul 2009 /  #1
A New York Post article penned by ISABEL VINCENT and MELISSA KLEIN, dated July 19, 2009, entitled "300 NAZIS STILL GO FREE IN AMERICA", commits historical revisionism and slander via biased reporting full of errors.

Here are three segments which need to be corrected:

"Mykola Wasylyk of upstate Ellenville, who ran a Catskills bungalow colony renting cabins to Jewish visitors. He served as a perimeter guard at the Trawniki labor camp in Poland."

Trawniki labor camp did not exist in Poland because Poland as an independent nation did not exist on the map of Europe after being occupied by the Germans and Russians. Trawniki was a German built labor camp located in German occupied Poland.

"Demjanjuk was stripped of his US citizenship in 1981, when he was believed to be "Ivan the Terrible," a guard at Poland's Treblinka death camp."

Again, it was not "Poland's" death camp. Treblinka was a German death camp set up in German occupied Poland. Independent Poland did not exist any longer.

"US prosecutors began a new case in 1999, accusing Demjanjuk of working as a guard at a different Polish camp."

These were not "Polish" camps. They were German ones.

Why are such errors [or purposely orchestrated provocations by the media] being made time and time again. An even a bigger shame is that some of the authors of such articles are of Jewish background, and such mistakes, if they are indeed mistakes, should not be made. Even if the authors submit their articles to be printed for hard copy or online publication, where are the Editors who are responsbile to overlook statements for historical accuracy?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
20 Jul 2009 /  #2
Why are such errors [or purposely orchestrated provocations by the media] being made time and time again.

Money?, the more countries that can be blamed the more money can be claimed?.
Or just bad reporting?.
Cardno85 31 | 976  
20 Jul 2009 /  #3
Or just bad reporting?.

I think this is most likely. Badly worded reports picked up on by eagle eyed Poles. Let's be honest...how many people are going to think that it was Poland that was in charge of these camps and not the Nazis?
Harry  
20 Jul 2009 /  #4
Interesting that Poland has no interesting in trying former camp guards for crimes which were committed in Poland and mainly against Poles.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
20 Jul 2009 /  #5
ple are going to think that it was Poland

Have you ever been to America? Let me be blunt here, not offensive just absolutely honest, an average American is abso-fuking-lutely stupid, he's primitive. undeducated, indoctrinated, he's a simpleton.

If you want proof just read some of our American posters, the mind boggles, if these people read about "Polish concentration camps" thats what they are for them, some of them dont even know on what continent Poland is or whether its an island or an alien empire.
Harry  
20 Jul 2009 /  #6
Have you ever been to America?

Have you ever been to Poland? Let me be blunt here, not offensive just absolutely honest, an average Pole is abso-fuking-lutely stupid, he's primitive. undeducated, indoctrinated, he's a simpleton.

If you want proof just read some of our Polish posters, the mind boggles, they think that because a New York tabloid doesn't correctly insert the word 'German-occupied', the whole world thinks that the Nazi death camps were Polish run!
OP scorpio 20 | 188  
20 Jul 2009 /  #7
There is no excuse for poor journalism and misrepresentation of historical and geographic facts. It is true, that there are certain individuals in all countries that do not possess an adequate knowledge of history or geography, and they have the tendency to believe what they read. The abused "Polish Death Camp" and "located in Poland" phrases have been a highly publicized issue for a very long time. So why is the media still using those terms? I believe at this point it appears to be more of a provocation rather than poor reporting containing innocent errors.
Lotnik767 3 | 145  
20 Jul 2009 /  #8
People and I hope they will one day start teaching people in schools around the world that there is no such thing and never were Polish death caps. There are GERMAN DEATH CAMPS in Poland but they are not Polish made! During WW2 when Nazi Germany occupied Poland, and they build those camps there to execute Poles, Europeans and Jews! So these camps are called German death camps in Poland! Media and Journalists are idiots and they lie about every thing!!
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #9
that there is no such thing and never were Polish death caps

I beg to differ:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Labour_Camp_Jaworzno

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Labour_Camp_Potulice

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zgoda_labour_camp

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81ambinowice

Different name, same purpose - killing people.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
20 Jul 2009 /  #10
In that particular article, the author should have used the term: nazi camp. If the Nazis run the camp put the name Nazi on it so people will not be confused. Leave geographical names off.
Harry  
20 Jul 2009 /  #11
Different name, same purpose - killing people.

You are completely wrong: the purpose of those camps was not killing people. Admittedly, the guards at best didn't give a sh!t whether the people locked up in the camps lived or died and more than one of the camp commanders was later charged with crimes against humanity, but those camps were most certainly not designed or run for killing.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #12
the purpose of those camps was not killing people

Maybe not officially, but the camp commanders certainly had a different idea on how to run those camps. In my eyes it doesn't matter if the government of Poland (or the Soviets) openly endorsed in killing these civilians or not. Important is that Polish officials knew about the mass killings and didn't do anything against it. So, on paper they were not called death camps, but practically they were.
Lotnik767 3 | 145  
20 Jul 2009 /  #13
After Germany it was Russian death camp Communist death camp!!
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
20 Jul 2009 /  #14
So these camps are called German death camps in Poland!

They do in England, kids go on field trips to Poland to see the camps, maybe you should insert "they should teach people in America"
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #15
"they should teach people in America"

Or maybe teach some people in Poland...

Quote:
"Its candidates include Ryszard Bender, a historian of the Catholic University of Lublin who said in 2000 on the Catholic broadcaster Radio Maryja that Auschwitz was "not a death camp but a labor camp. Jews, Gypsies and others were killed by hard labor, not always that hard, and not always killed."
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Jul 2009 /  #16
"Polish" Death Camps

They were jewish.They contained facilities for jewish people.
pawian 161 | 9,971  
20 Jul 2009 /  #17
the author should have used the term: nazi camp. If the Nazis run the camp put the name Nazi on it so people will not be confused.

The problem is that Nazis could be of different nationality. Yes, they were mostly Germans, but also Austrian (a lot of them) and from Western countries. Also Eastern nations, especially Lithuania or Latvia had their Nazi SS units, great helpers in the Holocaust.

Using the term Nazis in the article, together with the name of Poland interposed here and there, one can get an impression that some Polish Nazis participated in the Holocaust which is not true.

I believe at this point it appears to be more of a provocation rather than poor reporting containing innocent errors.

Very possible.

Different name, same purpose - killing people.

Poles don`t deny that after the war in which 6 millions Poles, including 3 million Polish Jews, died at German and Soviet hands, very often in a horrible way (massacres during Warsaw Rising, 50.000 civilians killed during 2 days), there were innocent Germans who perished in concentration camps run by Poles.

But juxtaposing these two things, Polish concentration camps for Germans in which a few thousand died, with 6 million Polish victims of the brawl that Germans started, is a bit unfair, don`t you think? It proves your lack of knowledge what Germans really organised in occupied Poland.

I think that only a few thousand German victims is a symbol of Polish forgiveness and refusal to take bigger revenge. Germans should be grateful for that.
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Jul 2009 /  #18
Jews have made extensive use of Holocaust although it included Slavs,communists,gypsies,gays and lots more.Nobody wants to talk about the latter.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #19
...is a bit unfair, don`t you think?

I didn't compare the Holocaust to Poland's dirty little secrets, I just disagreed with Lotnik767 who said that there "never were Polish death camps". Big difference!

I think that only a few thousand German victims is a symbol of Polish forgiveness and refusal to take bigger revenge.

"Only a few thousand victims" ... quite a sick way of looking at it, don't you think? How can you call someone an animal and at the same time behave like one yourself?
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Jul 2009 /  #20
only a few thousand German victims

Just try to compare to the millions of german victims by russian actions for whom of course the Germans keep silence.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #21
...for whom of course the Germans keep silence.

That's incorrect.
pawian 161 | 9,971  
20 Jul 2009 /  #22
I just disagreed with Lotnik767 who said that there "never were Polish death camps". Big difference!

Your disagreement proves your ignorance. There weren`t death camps for Germans run by Poles.

"Only a few thousand victims" ... quite a sick way of looking at it, don't you think?

What is sick in saying that only a few thousand German victims, in view of what Germans did in Poland during 5 years of murderous occupation, means Poles were full of forgiveness?????

How can you call someone an animal and at the same time behave like one yourself?

Germans taught Poles how to be brutal. E.g., do you know that most of these camps had been formerly run by Germans during the war?

That is why I say: only several thousand killed innocent Germans is a wonderful result and shows that Poles forgot revenge.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #23
There weren`t death camps for Germans run by Poles.

You're right: actually they were death camps for both Poles and Germans, run by Poles under the supervision of Soviets.

What is sick in saying that only a few thousand German victims

I was refering to the phrase "only a few thousand victims". Look at the word "only" and think about it.

Germans taught Poles how to be brutal.

Not an excuse, my friend. That's like saying "you did it first, so it's okay if we do it, too". It's not okay, no matter what.
pawian 161 | 9,971  
20 Jul 2009 /  #24
You're right: actually they were death camps for both Poles and Germans, run by Poles under the supervision of Soviets.

Don`t be silly. Facts are facts. There weren`t Polish gas chambers for Germans. Do you understand the term death camp at all?

Extermination camp (German: Vernichtungslager) and death camp (Todeslager) are usually interchangeable and specifically refer to camps whose primary function was genocide.
In a generic sense, a death camp was a concentration camp that was established for the purpose of killing prisoners delivered there. They were not intended as sites for punishing criminal actions; rather, they were intended to facilitate genocide. Historically, the most infamous death camps were the extermination camps built by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland during World War II


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

I was refering to "only a few thousand victims". Look at the word "only" and think about it.

No. You look at the numbers: firstly, 6 million Polish citizens were killed by Germans and their Soviet helpers. Warsaw alone lost 800.000 people, including 400.000 Jews.

Next, about 10 thousand inmates perished in internment or concentration camps after the war.
Yes, many of those who perished were innocent German civilians, as well as Poles from Silesia.
But some were volskdeutsche or SS members, the worst German scum that had destroyed Poland.

Not an excuse, my friend. That's like saying "you did it first, so it's okay if we do it, too". It's not okay, no matter what.

Your ignorance and lack of imagination surface again. If you lived under German occupation for 5 years and survived, you would sing a different song. :):):)
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
20 Jul 2009 /  #25
There weren`t Polish gas chambers.

I never said there were. If you don't like the expression "death camp", then use "labour camp with the intention to kill". What's the difference, really?

You look at the numbers

Pawian, nobody denies the fact that millions of innocent people were brutally killed during the Holocaust. I just find it a little disturbing that you seem to imply that "a few thousand" lifes are less worth than a million.

If you lived under German occupation for 5 years...

Did you personally suffer or even your parents? Or why do you think that you are less ignorant and have more imagination than me? ;-)
pawian 161 | 9,971  
21 Jul 2009 /  #26
If you don't like the expression "death camp", then use "labour camp with the intention to kill". What's the difference, really?

The difference is that if those people kept in camps were intended for death as you suggest, there wouldn`t be 10.000 victims of hunger, diseases and maltreatment, but many more.

Have you read about concentration camps for Germans in the links you provided? I am afraid you haven`t.

If you had, you would learn about Potulice camp
A total of 30,211 people were imprisoned in the camp during this period. At least 2,915 of the inmates died (other sources mention 4,500 or 5,000 victims), mostly in result of epidemic conditions prevailing in the camp. The dead were buried in a mass graves.

How much percent is it? From 10% to nearly 20%. Does this death toll suggest a death camp?

Why don`t you check German-operated camps for Jews and their death toll which amounted to 100%?

Or why do you think that you are less ignorant and have more imagination than me? ;-)

Isn`t it obvious in the light of your "arguments" and my explanations??? :):):):)

Pawian, nobody denies the fact that millions of innocent people were brutally killed during the Holocaust.

You see, it is an example of your ignorance. Apart from Holocaust which destroyed the Jewish population of Poland, 3 million people, there were also about 2 million ethnic Poles murdered in direct extermination by Germans, Soviets and others.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
21 Jul 2009 /  #27
Isn`t it obvious in the light of your "arguments" and my explanations???

Now, that's what I call some healthy ignorance... <vbg>

Apart from Holocaust which destroyed...

Killing innocent Poles in camps = NOT okay
Killing innocent Germans in camps = okay

That's what you're saying?
pawian 161 | 9,971  
21 Jul 2009 /  #28
Now, that's what I call some healthy ignorance... <vbg>

Call it whatever you want, I couldn`t care less. :):):):)

But the best thing you can do is to learn sth about death camps and give up your silly argumentation concerning "Polish death camps."

Killing innocent Poles in camps = NOT okay

Killing is never OK, I respect all victims, German too.

But I can`t agree to your silly comparison of afterwar camps to camps that Germans had organised in Poland during the war. In this way you suggest that Poles equaled Germans, and it is not only false, but also unfair.
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
21 Jul 2009 /  #29
I couldn`t care less

Sure... :-)

give up your silly argumentation concerning "Polish death camps."

Maybe some Polish people need to learn that their past wasn't as glorious as their politicians want them to believe?

Killing is never OK, I respect all victims

Thank you! Finally we agree.

...you suggest that Poles equaled Germans

That's where you still fail to understand me.

Sorry by the way for the constant editing. You still seem to write while I'm already answering.
pawian 161 | 9,971  
21 Jul 2009 /  #30
Maybe some Polish people need to learn that their past wasn't as glorious as their politicians want them to believe.

If you think that Poles don`t know about the camps, you are wrong. These matters are discussed and books have been published. I have one book by Helga Hirsch:"Die Rache der Opfer" - Revenge of Victims, published in Poland in 1998.



de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helga_Hirsch

That's where you still fail to understand me.

So, what do you mean at all? Do you still claim that Poles ran death camps for Germans after the war? If yes, I do fail to understand you.

Sorry by the way for the constant editing. You still seem to write while I'm already answering.

That`s normal in a hot discussion. :):):)

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