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Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces


Eagle20 16 | 119  
14 Jun 2009 /  #1
Anyone feel moved to add their name to the following the petition.

petitions.number10.gov.uk/polishforces/

(British citizen or resident)

Polish Armed Forces in the West fought in Allied operations against the Nazis in the Middle East, Mediterranean, African and European theatres: the North African campaign, the Italian Campaign (especially at Monte Cassino), the Western European Campaign (from Dieppe and D-Day, through Normandy, to Market Garden and beyond). The Polish contribution to the Battle of Britain has long been highlighted. Despite all of this, only representatives of the Polish Air Force were invited to attend the London Victory Parade in 1946. Invitations were not extended to the Polish Army or Navy as the British were wary of upsetting Stalin or the Soviet-installed puppet regime in Poland. As the 65th Anniversary of the end of the war approaches, we request the British Government to formally acknowledge those few remaining members of the Polish Armed Forces denied their place in the Victory parade, and to recognise the valuable contribution made by Free Polish Armed Forces to the Allied effort.
Harry  
15 Jun 2009 /  #2
Invitations were not extended to the Polish Army or Navy as the British were wary of upsetting Stalin or the Soviet-installed puppet regime in Poland.

That very simply is not true. Invitations were extended to all branches of the Polish Armed Forces: they didn't bother to turn up (unlike the free Polish forces, who refused to turn up because they thought that not enough of them had been invited).
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
15 Jun 2009 /  #3
This is all simply untrue and/or exaggerated. Please review the correct state of affairs posted by myself and others on my thread "What did Poland get out of the wars etc etc".

If you insist on asserting to the contrary, please produce a copy of the 'invitation' or a transcript of the verbal invitation to support your claim...

I won't hold my breath though, because as always you will ignore my requests when I put you to the test...

Are you going to mention that operation you are so fond of wherein you say the Polish fleet ran but in reality they put themselves at the disposal of the RN...

Have you placed flowers at the graves of the people I asked you to yet...

Rise to the challenge Harry.
Harry  
15 Jun 2009 /  #4
Invitations were not extended to the Polish Army or Navy as the British were wary of upsetting Stalin or the Soviet-installed puppet regime in Poland.

Another reason why this is a lie: invitations were not extended to any non-empire/commonwealth army or navy. The parade was for Britain and the empire. No representatives of the American army were invited. No representatives of the Russian navy were invited. Because it was a parade for Britain and the empire.

If you insist on asserting to the contrary, please produce a copy of the 'invitation' or a transcript of the verbal invitation to support your claim...

Repeat your lie as often as you want: it'll still be just a lie. Here are a few quote which show your lie is a lie:

"After the British Government decided to switch its recognition from the Polish Government-in-exile in London to the Polish Provisional Government in Warsaw, it no longer felt obliged to invite the armed forces of the exiled Government to the victory parade that was to be held in London in 1946. Instead it asked Warsaw to send its men to attend. .... The delegation from Warsaw never arrived. Warsaw's military attaché in London, Colonel Kuropieska, was never told why his superiors had decided not to attend."

Dr Mark Ostrowski To Return To Poland Or Not To Return" - The Dilemma Facing The Polish Armed Forces At The End Of The Second World War

"Though by then, every Englishman was a S.O.B. in our eyes, some still looked for bright sides. Those [free Poles] invited refused the invitation and stated without hesitation: contingents representing each service or none at all. And so, none it was.

A bit of time lapsed, before the reasons came out to surface. Since Great Britain already recognized new Polish government in Poland, and thousands of Polish servicemen, legally Polish citizens, were still in England, it would be diplomatically correct, to invite a contingent of each service from Poland, and together, in fraternal unisons with the "local" soldiers, take part in Victory Parade in London.

At the time, we couldn't get over the fact, that the British Government, dealing with Stalin for several years, were so naive as to think that the so called "Polish government totally subservient to USSR, would sent it's contingents, to join their compatriots in England. We hated the communists, especially the Polish ones, and would rather vegetate abroad, than to return home and be dominated by them. Later on, we heard some rumors, that apparently, the Polish authorities were ready to sent a contingent of men, but at last moment, received a "message" from Moscow: " What's going to happen, if your soldiers get captivate by fascists in England and never return?" That did it. " Rudolf Falkowski - The Victory Parade

Of course you will argue with those sources and say that they are wrong. So have a look at this The Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations of 8th June 1946 in London, England.

Official Programme Part 2 of 2 lists the Allied airforces which were to take part. Note the name "Poland" on the list. Also see Official Programme, Part 1 of 2 which lists the bands which were to march. Note the name "Poland" on the list.

Are you going to mention that operation you are so fond of wherein you say the Polish fleet ran but in reality they put themselves at the disposal of the RN...

Would that be the same Royal Navy who were sailing towards the Germans as the Polish navy ran for safety?

Have you placed flowers at the graves of the people I asked you to yet...

You have never even bothered to visit the grave of a single Pole who died fighting for Poland, so forgive me for saying that I won't take lectures from you.
OP Eagle20 16 | 119  
17 Jun 2009 /  #5
For anyone who might have missed it the first time,

(British citizen or resident)

petitions.number10.gov.uk/polishforces/

Please, pay attention to Rule 6.
Thank you.

LAGirl 9 | 496  
17 Jun 2009 /  #6
Polish Military should get some credit I am tired of only hearing about British and Americans fighting wars when there are other brave people.
Ironside 48 | 9,902  
17 Jun 2009 /  #7
Its problem of Americans and British .....or not....I don't care!
Harry  
18 Jun 2009 /  #8
LAgirl: you'll no doubt be pleased to hear that at the London parade Poles were treated better than Americans. No Polish soldiers or sailors were invited and neither were any American soldiers or sailors but representatives of both Polish airforces were invited and only representatives of one American airforce were invited.

Of course the Americans bothered to turn up and now speak fondly of the parade. None of the Poles bothered to show and even to this day they lie about the parade.
sjam 2 | 541  
18 Jun 2009 /  #9
For anyone that is interested the Polish Forces War Memorial being constructed at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire, England is on schedule to be unveiled by Duke of Kent on 16th September 2009.

PolishForcesMemorial.com
There are already around 2,500 invited guests from Polish veteran groups, the MoD etc and there will be a fly-over by Lancaster bomber and Spitfire from the Battle of Britain. We are also producing a book about the Polish contribution to allied victory in WII-sales of which will help with ongoing site memorial maintenance.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542  
18 Jun 2009 /  #10
Eagle20: Invitations were not extended to the Polish Army or Navy as the British were wary of upsetting Stalin or the Soviet-installed puppet regime in Poland.

Then WHY THE HELL WERE NORWEGIANS THERE?! I saw it on film bastard! Liar!
Harry  
18 Jun 2009 /  #11
Very simply: the Norwegian airforce was there, because they were an allied airforce. Look at the programme. No Norwegian army units were invited and no Norwegian sailors were invited.
sjam 2 | 541  
19 Jun 2009 /  #12
From previous link: angelfire.com/ok2/polisharmy/chapter1.html

To Return To Poland Or Not To Return

"...As the mood of anger and indignity rose - many saw the invitation of Warsaw's people as the ultimate insult to the Poles in the West - and the British press took up the issue, so the British Government relented and invited a delegation from the Polish Air Force to take part. The airmen who, no doubt would have wanted to march, declined the invitation as the British had not invited the Polish Army or the Navy."

The reason Britain did not originally invite the Polish Forces of the West was because the Warsaw government did not want its forces taking part in any parade with the "Hitlerite anti-communist reactionary" Polish forces under Anders whom it was still fighting against in Poland. Britain had already formally derecognised the Polish-government-in-exile based in London in favour of the communist Polish government based in Warsaw.
Harry  
19 Jun 2009 /  #13
The reason Britain did not originally invite the Polish Forces of the West

That's an interesting interpretation. Do you have any sources which support it?
sjam 2 | 541  
19 Jun 2009 /  #14
Somewhere amongst the copies of FO and CO documents that Dr Mark Ostrowski footnoted in his thesis. He kindly gave me a list of all the footnote references that he ommitted from his website; I then obtained copies of all the source documents from the National archives in Kew.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
19 Jun 2009 /  #15
That's an interesting interpretation.

Now, you would interpret that as Poles don't want Poles to participate in a parade because Poles were fighting against Poles.
Harry  
19 Jun 2009 /  #16
You of course would have been invited to take part in the parade because you were in the United States Airforce. Such a proud Polish patriot!

Somewhere amongst the copies of FO and CO documents that Dr Mark Ostrowski footnoted in his thesis

Norman Davies disagrees with you. Although in the article in which he does so, he says that the London parade was in 1945....
sjam 2 | 541  
19 Jun 2009 /  #17
Norman Davies disagrees with you.

So be it. I would not dare argue against Norman Davies :-))

Now, you would interpret that as Poles don't want Poles to participate in a parade because Poles were fighting against Poles.

I would go further in that those Poles who did not want Poles to particpate were not considered Poles at all by those Poles that were not asked; these Poles considered those Poles as traitors just as those Poles considered the other Poles Hitlerite anti-communist recationaries who were instigating a traitorous campaign against the Poles that didn't want to take part in the parade if these Poles were invited because .... :-)
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542  
19 Jun 2009 /  #18
Just make it easy, the commies didn't want the Fascist& Social Democrats simple
Don't tell me there were no fascists, heard of Falanga? My father knew a member of thoose folx
sjam 2 | 541  
19 Jun 2009 /  #19
Just make it easy, the commies didn't want the Fascist& Social Democrats simple

Actually the commie Poles did want all those non-commie Poles to return to Poland after the war; problem was most didn't want to return having previoulsy enjoyed Soviet hospitality in Siberia ;-)
1jola 14 | 1,879  
19 Jun 2009 /  #20
these Poles considered those Poles as traitors just as those Poles considered the other Poles Hitlerite anti-communist recationaries

Yes, I knew you two reasoned like that. No surprise here.

You of course would have been invited to take part in the parade because you were in the United States Airforce. Such a proud Polish patriot!

I'm glad you're coming around. Now, why did it take so long?
Babinich 1 | 455  
4 Jul 2009 /  #21
That's an interesting interpretation. Do you have any sources which support it?

Clement Attlee and Labour's desire to build better ties with the Soviets invited Communist Poland to take part in the parade. At the same time, in an action to appease Stalin, Labour barred Poles fighting under British command.

Ernest Bevin was all too eager to stick the Poles into the maelstrom by stating that it was the Poles' "duty" to "return to their home country without further delay".

The RAF protested, who backed their Polish brothers, protested. In the end Labour relented and belatedly (with great unhappiness) invited the fliers.

The Polish pilots, in solidarity to their brothers in the army and navy, refused.

Winston Churchill: "They will be in our hearts on that day."

Air Marshall Phillip Joubert de Ferte: "Are we too feeble to stand up to those who attempt to bully us?"

Harold Macmillan to General Anders: "With all the legitimate joy and pride in every British heart will be mingled much sorrow and even shame."

Bevin's personal notes via the Public Records Office
Anders - Army in Exile p. 300
Lynne Olsen & Stanley Cloud - A Question Of Honor p. 398
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
4 Jul 2009 /  #22
Some quotes:

From Rudolf Falkowski, a 303 Squadron pilot:

we had a chance to find and see the other side of the civilized British society. And only those who lived in the British colonies were not taken aback by hue and cry: "Polacks go home! We don't want you here!"

polishsquadronsremembered.com/Victory_parade.html

From Financial Times (2005):

For the Poles and their military standards will be present for the first time in a British victory parade. Even though Poland made one of the largest contributions to the Allied war effort and there were thousands of Polish troops stationed in the UK at the time, the country was excluded from the original London celebration in 1946

From "A Question of Honor":

Yet, despite its accomplishments in the war, none Of 303's Pilots took part in the fly-past. None marched in the parade. For they were all Polish -- and Poles who had fought under British command were deliberately and specifically barred from the celebration by the British government, for fear of offending Joseph Stalin. A week earlier, ten members of Parliament had written a letter of protest against the exclusion.

From PBS (American public broadcasting):

1946
June 8

In London's Allied victory parade, organized by the Labor Government of Clement Atlee, no Polish soldiers are invited to participate so as not to upset the Communist government in Poland.

sledz 23 | 2,250  
4 Jul 2009 /  #23
From PBS (American public broadcasting):

1946?? Talk about living in the past?
Get with the times old man WWII ended along time ago, maybe not for you but for most normal ppl, its all behind us...execpt you?

Go Ahead and hate America all you want, but please dont ever ask us ever again for a favor..never,,ever again!
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
4 Jul 2009 /  #24
1946?? Talk about living in the past?

Yes, history deals with the past.
Gotcha there huh?

Go Ahead and hate America all you want

WTF are you talking about? A quote from PBS in regards to British shame?

but please dont ever ask us ever again for a favor..never,,ever again!

I never did. Not once. America asked me for favors and since they paid well I agreed to help.
sledz 23 | 2,250  
4 Jul 2009 /  #25
Gotcha there huh?

wooo dickhead.got me..lol
not really ,what history book did they give you ?

America asked me for favors

I dont remember your name on the veterans war statue, nor any Canook

Just be lucky we provide your protection, without us you are nothing, what do you have??
really?? answer it??

If it were for the US, youre country is a dead fish

You country depends way too much on us, its time we seperate:)
Harry  
4 Jul 2009 /  #26
How many f*cking times must we go over this? For the three hundredth time: Poles, both official and western command, were invited to take part in the London victory parade. That neither group took part was an entirely Polish decision.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
4 Jul 2009 /  #27
As many f*ucking times as it takes to get it through your thick polonophobic skull that the very limited invitation was extended only after public protests, and the invitation was extended only to a very, very small representatives of air units of a country that the UK just recently betrayed.
Harry  
4 Jul 2009 /  #28
Sorry, I didn't realize that Poland was actually a Commonwealth/Empire nation and this should have had units of its army and navy invited. No units from the US army were invited. And the Yanks still complain about that. Oh, hang on, no they don't.

And z_dupek, you seem to forget that the official government of Poland was also invited to send representatives and they also didn't bother to attend.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
4 Jul 2009 /  #29
No units from the US army were invited. And the Yanks still complain about that.

Yeah because you guys were so busy being Stalin's lapdog. You and Hitler and Stalin.
Harry  
4 Jul 2009 /  #30
^ You may wish to read a history book. Pay particular attention to which leader refused to force Stalin to allow Soviet bases to be used to supply Warsaw.

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