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Posts by mafketis  

Joined: 31 Mar 2008 / Male ♂
Warnings: 2 - AO
Last Post: 28 Mar 2023
Threads: Total: 35 / In This Archive: 1
Posts: Total: 11,710 / In This Archive: 501
From: tez nie
Speaks Polish?: tak
Interests: tez nie

Displayed posts: 502 / page 1 of 17
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30 Dec 2009
Law / New ID 'card' in Poland [19]

Why have the id card anyway?

Non-EU citizens need them to have longer stays legalized or risk probable deportation (or not being allowed back in when travelling abroad).
30 Dec 2009
Law / New ID 'card' in Poland [19]

Huh? My permanent residence card is a plastic laminated thing about the size of a credit card. It looks different from the previous 2 year cards, but it was the same size.
28 Dec 2009
Life / Polish Christmas Movies [9]

TVP has done a series of theater films (a Polish genre with no particular equivalent in the UK or US) on various holidays. For Christmas they had one called Wigilijna opowieść, with Andrzej Chyra. It's not the Dickens story of the same name but rather about marital problems and eventual reconciliation in a working class family. Couldn't find any of it on youtube though.
26 Dec 2009
Language / Gdybym...łbyś [16]

So in this case how can we make the difference between those two sentences?

There's no need to make such a difference in Polish. Languages make differences in different places and there's no need for them to match up.
2 Dec 2009
Life / What Do Poles think of Finns? [50]

Finlandia is one of the best vodkas in the world (if not the best, I wouldn't vote against it).

Traditionally, Scandinavia is Sweden, Norway and Denmark (minus Greenland and the Faroe Islands),

Add Finnland, Iceland and the Danish territories and you have Norden (also called the Nordic countries).
1 Dec 2009
Travel / Platform information traveling from Krakow to Rzeszow [28]

hmmmmm i think im terrified now

Don't be. Those are things I always do in countries where you don't have to show tickets before getting on and I don't speak the language (or don't speak it well).

Arrive early, go to the platform listed on the departure board, but realize there's a small chance it will be somewhere else and be ready to change platforms in a hurry.
30 Nov 2009
Travel / Platform information traveling from Krakow to Rzeszow [28]

The platform can be changed! You must always check on the board in the railway station before departure.

Not only that, but sometimes the platform is changed at the last minute without being changed on the departureboard. And if it's a domestic train, then the announcement will only be in Polish.

1. Look for signs that the train does indeed go to Rzeszów on the train itself.

2. Ask a few different passengers. A quick 'do Rzeszowa?' or even 'Rzeszów?' (in pseudo French spelling JAI-chouf) is enough (they'll nod and/or say 'tak' if it is. Don't ask kids or teenagers who might think it's funny to misdirect you. Don't ask conductors as they're not always 100% reliable. Do ask other passengers, preferably older and more stable looking.
20 Nov 2009
Food / Tatar - a raw meat dish [28]

.The best way to eat it is to chase it down with a nice cold beer!!!!!!!!

I prefer vodka, especially czysta żołądkowa....
20 Nov 2009
USA, Canada / "Zaklęci w czasie" [7]

olish title translation "trapped in time" is incorrect as it does not mention the wife

First, what ziemowit said about movie titles. Second, zaklęci _is_ plural, so the wife is kind of included....
18 Nov 2009
Language / Two questions for people who learn polish [57]

For a native English speaker who knows some German (or vice versa) the mainland Scandinavian German languages (Swedish, Norwegian and Danish) are ridiculously easy, at least in written form.

True the pronunciation is very weird (for different reasons in Danish than the other two) which makes speaking and listening hard in the beginning, and learning to write idiomatically would be tough, but learning to read one (or all) of them is a piece o' cake.
14 Nov 2009
Food / Bad food experiences in Poland [30]

the main food i avoid like the plague is Flaki. thats disgusting.

It's a great at preventing hangovers, though. I always used to keep some on hand for when I drank too much. Plop em in a pan, heat 'em up, eat 'em up and you're good to go.
13 Nov 2009
Food / Rogale świętomarcińskie (Martinmas crescents) [7]

11th Nov. is also St Martin's Day (Martinmas), celebrated with great fanfare in Poznań (parade, dancing in the streets, fests, etc.). Only on that day are special crescents baked containing white poppysee filling. Anybody on PF from Poznań who can provide a recipe or any comments or elaboration?

Fanfare? Dancing in the streets? Poznan? What are you on and how can I get the prescription?

I live in Poznan and it's overall a great place, but Poznanians are the least likely Poles imaginable to go around dancing in the streets (remember the joke about it being one of the three quietest cities in Poland?)

And the rogale świętomarcińskie are available year round now, though they're most popular for the Martin's day (like pączki are available year round but especially popular for Fat Thursday).

I personally think they'd be better without the peanuts which ruin the texture of the croissant (and can't be tasted anyway) for me.

Interesting possible factoid: According to a Polish ethnographic paper I read some years ago, the whole St Martin's Day holiday was a conscious political decision. The holiday was seen as too connected with Piłsudski who was disliked in Poznan for what was perceived as a lack of support before and during the Weilkopolska uprising.
9 Nov 2009
Life / Are there Bank Cheques and checkbooks in Poland? Do people use cheques? [8]

Cheques began to be used in a very limited way in the mid 90's (and even seem to recall seeing them being used in stores a time or two) but it didn't last.

For all intents and purposes, Poland went directly from cash only to cash or card (bank or credit).
9 Nov 2009
Life / What are people in Poland REALLY saying about 'swine flu'? [41]

I don't think anyone is panicking. Polish people are not generally the panicking kind. I remember no one in Poland was worried about Y2K (rightly enough).

The media have been doing their best to make everyone afraid, but I don't think it's working so far.

I have to say that for once, and to my absolute amazement, I agree with Kopacz. There's no real reason for Poland to spend a lot of money it can't afford for supposed vaccine(s) that is/are undertested, and of dubious value in actually preventing anything. This flu has a much, much lower mortality rate than regular seasonal flu (and seems most dangerous for those with pre-existing conditions).
7 Nov 2009
Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]

From a 'genetic' point of view, as used by linguists, Czech.

From a practical point of view, as in easiest to understand, Slovak.

That's just in terms of the literary languages (since Slovak separated from written Czech after Polish and Czech separated). In terms of speech, then Slovak, period.

Belarussian belongs to the eastern Slavic group which separated from the western group before the individual eastern and western varieties separated. Belarussian is easy to understand if you know some Russian, but in formal terms it's further away than Slovak or Czech.
6 Nov 2009
Genealogy / What nationality is Slavic? [23]

Mare Gaea,

I agree, but there's also a significant (and tiresome) minority in Poland (and Polish communities abroad) that spends a lot of time saying, for example, that "X is a Jew!" (meaning a person who's entirely Polish in language and upbringing, and maybe even a practicing Catholic) has some Jewish ancestory.
6 Nov 2009
Genealogy / What nationality is Slavic? [23]

"He's Jewish Polish but his wife is Slavic."

I've never heard this before, but I would assume that the pattern goes.

"He's Jewish Polish but his wife is Slavic." (means, she's Polish)

"He's Jewish Polish but his wife is Czech."

"He's Jewish Russian but his wife is Slavic." (she's Russian)*

"He's Jewish Polish but his wife is Polish."

*conceivably Ukrainian or Belarussian (which with Russian make up the three Soviet slavic groups) but not Polish or Slovak or Croatian

That is, Slavic hear is a shorthand way of referring back to the previously mentioned Slavic group.

On the other hand, I find that absent any open religious differences, the distinction between Jews and Slavs (and endless pointless arguments about who is and isn't Jewish) to be about as entertaining as scraping my teeth against the sidewalk....
6 Nov 2009
Language / Numbers in the Polish Language [39]

delphiadomine, you should be ashamed!


if it looks like this :

It's work approximately nothing. AFter the currency conversion it was the equivalent of one new zloty, which is (by today's exchange rate) about 35 cents.

That is, if a bank would convert it, which I'm pretty sure they won't.

Think of it as a curio that looks like money.
5 Nov 2009
Language / Inventiveness in Polish word formation [9]

Well the ending(s) -(iz)ować are used pretty freely in creating new verbs.

A friend of mine once used (created?) a verb igorizować, from igor, frankenstein's assistant, to describe the manner of a common acquaintance.

Some quick googling also shows 'tuskować' presumably about the current PM (there's no root like that in my big dictionary)

But generally Polish word creativity runs in different directions than English for obvious structural reasons.
3 Nov 2009
Language / "Polski" or "Polskiego" - Grammar help [19]

Ta sekcja forum jest w języku polskim. (instrumental case)

uh, that's locative - miejscownik (instrumental - narzędnik would be językiem polskim).
3 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

looks like it's correct - so n in stonka (biedronka, koronka, błonka so also łonka (there is a word słonka (a kind of bird))) is not velar in Polish

Yes it is (according to the people that study that kind of thing).
3 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

standard Polish n sound in stonka had nothing to do with the sound the English would produce pronouncing the word (don't know the linguistic terms for that - would be grateful if you could provide these)

I think the term you're looking for is 'velar', in Polish miękkopodniebiennyółgłoska
3 Nov 2009
Language / "Mieć doła" - moron speech? [6]

I'd suggest you look up:

Treating inanimate nouns as if they were animate has a long tradition in Polish. Note that popular internet sites are in fact often treated as animate, so that the accusative of google and youtube are (often, not always) google'a [gugla] and youtube'a [jutuba].

There's nothing illiterate or moronic about it. It's a normal feature of the language (it occurs sporadically in some other Slavic languages but not nearly as often as in Polish).
3 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

My meaning was that łąka is pronounced the same as if it were written łonka....

As for the rest. I'm just summarizing a whole bunch of articles by phoneticians and philologists who've devoted years of their lives to these questions. Backed up by phonetics lab research.

Also, most people are not good judges of what they do and don't say unless they've had linguistic training (and sometimes even then). Linguistic research is full of people who think they say X when they really say Y.

the nasal sounds in both łąka and stonka are different in careful enough speech

"Careful enough" usually means 'spelling pronunciation' which means the speaker is working backwards from the written form. This kind of artificial speech is of only secondary importance to linguists. I was describing what educated native speakers do in everyday speech (at home, at school, at work). Many Poles think they always distinguish the sounds in łąka and stonka but the research indicates they don't (and can't).
3 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

In standard Polish (as described by Polish philologists I've known (and whose articles I've translated)):

The difference between ą and on, om and ę and en, em (before a stop or affricate) has been lost in modern Polish. So łąka is łonka and the standard pronunciation of będzie is bendzie (or beńdzie if you prefer).

Further, the difference betwen ą and on and ę and en before a fricative is also lost, so that the standard pronuncation of sens is sęs.

In other words, ą is pronounced nasally before a fricative (as in mąż or związek) and as o plus nasal consonant before a stop or affricate (rąk = ronk, stąd = stont)

The patterning is exactly the same for ę, en and em (często, vs wnęka = wnenka etc) except that the sequence -ętn- is usually pronounced -etn- as in pietnaście, umietności etc)

Before l and ł, ą and ę are pronounced o and e respectively. Nasalizing those vowels would sound bizarre.

Word finally both nasal vowels have a similar range of variants, but the distribution varies. In order from most to least ... elaborate.

nb. in the following ~ = vowel nasalization

1. [ou~] and [eu~]. In other words, o and e followed by a short nasalized u (or ł) sound. The initial part isn't nasalized, only the u. This is common for ą but not so much for ę (except for się when it's emphasized) and often enough dziękuję.

2. [ow] and [eu]. As above but the second part isn't nasalized. Often people think variant 1 is being used when it's actually variant two. This is why most modern speakers can't distinguish between zginął and zginą, pronouncing both as zginoł (even educated speakers who think they can distinguish them mostly .... cannot. The patterning is the same as for 1.

3. [o~] and [e~]. In other words, o and e which are nasalized to some degree. Usually the start more oral and the nasalization only happens toward the end of the word. This is common for ą and not unheard of for ę. As I wrote previously, the best style is considered to pronounce some instances of ę with nasalization and others without. The determination of which to pronounce in which way should depend on homophonic and other factors (like place in the sentence).

4. [o] and [e]. That is, like plain o and e. For ą this is considered substandard, for ę it should be in alternation with 3. or 1. and 2. (this is for native speakers only, absolutely no one really cares what a non-native speaker uses as long as they're understandable ....)

5. [om] and [em]. Like plain om and em. This is considered substandard for both, it's generally more common for ą than ę (but Wałęsa is known for the latter as in his famous quote "Nie chcem ale muszem."

Final points.

1. You can sometimes hear self-conscious pronunciations like [beu~deu~] instead of the preferred [bende or bende~]. This should be regarded as hypercorrection and should not be mimicked by anyone (except perhaps for humorous purposes).

2. It is okay to distinguish ę and en in spelling pronunciations. Poles mostly don't spell words outloud like English speakers do. To clarify the writing of an unusual or ambiguous last name, they may use a spelling pronunciation where each letter has it's canonical value.
2 Nov 2009
Language / Jennifer - will people be able to pronounce it properly? [11]

They'll generally pronounce it JEN-ee-fair.

Poles don't change j to y. On the other hand, the final -er sound doesn't exist in Polish and tends to be replaced by something that sounds like 'air' but with a Spanish style r at the end.
2 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

isn't the first syllable stress in Góral speech not influenced by Czech and Slovak?

No, you're getting too hung up on state borders. What happens is that as you move south from Wrocław, Częstochowa, Kraków the penultimate stress in words eventually turns into initial stress.

On the other hand if you're moving north from Liberec, Olomon and Presov, then the initial accent eventually turns into penultimate accent. In other words, there are two accent areas in western Slavic, a penultimate one that's north of an initial one and the border is porous. It roughly corresponds to national borders, but not entirely so that you find some initial stress in Polish areas near the initial stress zone and (somewhat less commonly) penultimate stress in northern areas if the initial stress zone. There's really no point in talking about one 'influencing' the other.

In rough, simplified terms, look at the block below (where P = penultimate and I = initial)


You'll find you can't draw a border (in a straight line) that includes all the P's on one side and all the I's on the other. That's the way to think about fact that the stress borders (and standardized national linguistic borders) don't exactly coincide.
1 Nov 2009
Language / Pronouncing final -ą as -oł (Czech infleunce?) [14]

Back in the 80's I read an article (based on acoustic laboratory research) that most Poles can't tell the difference between final -ą and -oł. That is, educated speakers asked whether a recording has -ą or -oł had about a 50% success rate (random chance).

I don't think it's Czech influence as I can't imagine how Czech would influence Polish in this case.

Finally, some go further and just pronounce it -o (considered substandard) and others go in the other direction and pronounce it -om (also considered substandard).