Real Estate / What is a "jard" [10]

Be aware that many Poles mistranslate "Ar" as "Acre". For example, someone may tell you that they bought 10 acres of land to build a house on, when in fact they mean 10 Are, or .25 acres.

Real Estate / How much to build a house in poland [7]

About 2500 - 3000 zl/m2 for a typical "normal" Polish new build of 90 - 120m2 of habitable space. That's everything from the foundation to the paint on the walls and tiles in the bath. Larger houses will have better economies of scale and you may get down to about 2000zl/m2.

Real Estate / House ownership as a EU citizen [4]

Sobieski, I'm quite certan that you cannot have meldunek in two places at once, that would defeat the purpose of it. You should be able to transfer the Meldunek from one gmina to another, but as GASK pointed out, you don't have an address on the new house.

Regarding your share of your wife's flat - there are no restrictions on EU citizens purchasing flat's in Poland this is why you did not need to provide any documentation.

As of May 1 2009 you will be free to purchase a 2nd home without restriction, the same as with a flat. If all other avenues fail, perhaps you can delay purchase for 6 months, or just place the property in your wife's name for the time being and she can gift you the 50% share in May.

Life / Are Russian fireplaces or kachelofens in use in Poland? [4]

The piec kaflowy masonary heater is still in wide use throughout Poland (much like the German kachelofan), not just in rural areas, but in towns and cities. Most are still functional and the only means of heating houses and apartments. Many people keep them for their decorative value after installling central heating.

In cities people retro-fit them with electric elements, and use cheap night tariff electricity to heat them. I have one in my house in a small city and in my apartment in Krakow. They are fitted for electricty, but I don't use them.

You can buy antique piec kaflowys on Allegro, some go for over 100,000PLN.

My dream is to install a large 2 story Finnish style masonary heater in my house to replace my central heating. Just have to find someone alive who knows how to build one.

Real Estate / Estimate farmland value (9 miles from Krakow)? [4]

There are so many variables involved with agricultural land that you really need to have someone take a look at the plot. For example, soil quality, grade, dimensions, road access, drainage, etc...

If the land is zoned purely for agriculture and has no opportunity of ever changing zoning status to something that could be built on, then it could be fairly low value, perhaps even down to a few zloty / m2.

What changes the game completely is the opportunity, or potential opportunity, to change the zoning status to "budowlana", allowing you to develop the property. There is a great deal of speculation involved in that area, and your question becomes how long is a piece of string?. You could then be looking at 100's of zl/m2.

You need to be aware that there are a lot of investors looking to take advantage of the Babkas in the village by purchasing cheap agro plots and having them converted to developable land. There are "expeditors" who know the "system" and specialize in having land converted for a fee.

Take a look at these guys, maybe they can help: plotspy.pl/the-investment.htm

Real Estate / Current state of the property market in Krakow [135]

Ash1972 – Using the numbers you provided and something called compounding you arrive at a 90% increase since the beginning of 2004. This qualifies as DOUBLING in my book.

Baseline Beginning of 2004 = 100%
92.5 close of 2004 (-7.5%)
118.4 close of 2005 (+28%)
157.5 close of 2006 (+33%)
181.2 close of 2007 (+15%)
190.1 close of 2008 (+5%)

Life / Deadly Roads - "Are polish roads really THAT dangerous?" [139]

Days of Death on Poland's roads

On Friday and Saturday, 32 people died on Polish roads during the weekend when Poles visit cemeteries all over the country to celebrate All Souls and Saints Days.

Police reported 334 serious road accidents with 32 dead and 421 injured in 48 hours, on what is the annual carnage on Poland's accompanying one of the most widely observed Roman Catholic holidays, All Souls Day, otherwise known as the day of the Dead.

In a special action - codenamed Operation Light - carried out by Poland's law enforcement officers, just under 1000 drivers were caught in charge of a vehicle while drunk.

The death toll is expected to rise significantly as Poles return home from visiting graves of loved ones, Sunday.

UK, Ireland / British celebs that are bigger in Poland than in Britain [49]

Shakin' Stevens
Joe Cocker

Real Estate / Selling a property after 5 years - tax question on Polish property [2]

Property purchased prior to 2007 and held for a full 5 calendar years is not subject to any Polish capital gains tax. Property held for less than 5 full calendar years is subject to a 10% flat tax on the net proceeds of the sale. This is not a true CGT, it is 10% of the proceeds, regardless of profit.

There are ways to avoid the tax by re-investing the proceeds in Poland. Consult a lawyer before selling.

Property purchased from January 1, 2007 is subject to a 19% CGT on profit. This can be avoided if the property is used as your registered primary residence for 1 year (bought in 2007) or 2 years (bought Jan 1, 2008 forward)

UK Resident - I believe you are correct. If you are tax resident in the UK, you are taxed on your global income. Any taxes paid to Poland should offset the UK tax.

Real Estate / BUYING A HOUSE IN POLAND.. and having the seller strip it bare.. [12]

I bought an apartment in Krakow a few years ago that included a lot of the original details, like chandeliers, stained glass, lamps, old door fixtures/knobs. I was a bit wary of the seller and coming from the US I have heard stories of sellers stripping the house of everything, nailed down or not.

There was some tough negotiating on the selling price, and I made sure that the sale was to include all of those items. We agreed to a price and set a date with the notary. I arrived at the notary with a dozen photographs of the lamps, etc and asked that the photos & descriptions be placed in the pre-contract. The seller, his lawyer, the notary all had a good laugh at my expense. Then everyone stopped laughing when the seller confessed that he did indeed plan to strip the apartment of these items and “donate them to the church” (not sure which church in Krakow is in need of door handles). There was some arguing and more haggling and eventually the notary put the photos into the pre-contract, much to her own amazement.

When we met for the final contract the seller was desperately trying to get out of the pre-contract as prices in Krakow were rising so quickly. He kept stepping out of the room to take calls from potential buyers who would hopefully offer enough to offset the penalty he would face for breaking the pre-contract. In the end he signed the contract. The estate agent on the deal told me that he bumped into the seller a few months later and he tried to start a fist fight right there on the street.

I had the opposite problem buying a house. The previous owner was an elderly gentleman who had passed away leaving decades of “stuff”. His family did not have the means to clean the place out and at casual glance there were some nice looking pieces of furniture, that would offset the cost of removing the rubbish. I agreed to take the house, stuff and all. Some of the furniture turned out to be so rotten that is collapsed. And the wonderful looking antique bed was only 180cm long, which might have been practical 80 years ago.

Life / A trip to a Polish supermarket [136]


Great thread!

The local chain of supermarkets where I live has just recently instituted a new policy. They have removed all shopping baskets from the store (You should see the confused looks of customers as they walk in the door). You are now required to use a shopping trolley to enter. So now when I bring my 1 year old shopping with me I have to push his pram with one hand (taking a pram into any Polish establishment is a thread unto itself), and the trolley with the other. As always the trolley refuses to go in a straight line and I have to pull the pram in reverse as it fishtails all over the place.

And of course in the middle of every isle is a short squat babka in a beret and overcoat with shoulder pads, whose purpose in life is to act oblivious to the world around her and shift to whichever side of the isle I am attempting to pass her on. A bit like playing Frogger.

The first time I experienced the new no-baskets policy I was with my wife and we attempted to just go straight on in sans trolley. The security guy came running over in a panic. He was certainly intimidating, all 75 years of him, with his sweater tucked into his trousers and bright orange badge. So I was more than a bit embarrassed when he begged us to take a trolley, or he would "lose his job".

Real Estate / Anyone who knows how to find accommodation in Cracow? [7]

Is that a 1 bedroom in the centre of Krakow for 1300zl? Could be a bargain. Let me know how you get on. I may have a studio apartment in centre of Krakow available for rent in January.

Look at this sticky thread: polishforums.com/look_on_internet_polish_real-20_18451_0.html

And try this website: studentcenter.pl/index.php?lang=en

Real Estate / Anyone who knows how to find accommodation in Cracow? [7]


I have some renovation work to do, so not certain at this point. Likely to be in the region of 1200zl month + utilities.


In general electric heating will be your most expensive option, but if you are disciplined about using 2nd tariff electricity, with a storage heater for example, you can keep the cost fairly competitive with gas. I wrote someting on this a few weeks back:

polishforums.com/tips_on_renting_apartment_poland-45_27993_0.html

Life / Holiday's in Poland! Not allowed thanksgiving off. [30]

Give the man a break! He made a simple faux pas. How did his question about asking for a day off become a demand for a day off?

Yes, it would be completely normal in the USA to ask to take off from work on a day of particular cultural, religious, or ethnic importance to you. And it would be completely normal for your boss to evaluate the request, and if there was no just cause (for example a disruption to the company, or lack of staff coverage) to deny the request, give the day off.

Most progressive companies in the US offer employees 2 or 3 floating holidays allowing them to choose at the beginning of the year if they want to take off a holiday that is relevant to them, but not their coworkers. For example: Good Friday, Rosh Hashanah, Chinese New Year, MLK Day, St. Pat's, Yom Kippur, Eid, Cinco de Maya...


No, it would be completely reasonable to request the day off, or November 1st off.


Completly normal to request off Good Friday, or St. Pat's


Why does Poland have to be such a bitter pill to swallow? Some people actually enjoy it here.


You can see from the responses to your question that your boss is not the only angry person in this world. Enjoy your time in Poland, make the best of it, and understand that there is a lot that you will never understand.

Happy Thanksgiving

Real Estate / Selling a land in Poland. Taxes and capital gain question. [2]

If you are a US taxpayer (either a US Citizen, or US Green Card Holder) you will be taxed on your worldwide income. This will include tax on any capital gains from the sale of property in Poland. Any tax owed to the US would be offset by taxes paid to Poland.

I do not know if the 0% after 5 years of ownership applies to land, it may be the case. It does apply to houses and apartments, and in a situation like yours, there would be 0% Polish tax due starting in January 2009.

Real Estate / what is the price to rent or buy a bar or pub in "Rzeszow" [10]

A couple of examples below. There is a sticky thread in this section that will show you other websites to search. I agree with the other postings, this could be a tough business to run in Rzeszów. You may well be better off speaking to existing businesses in the city centre. Maybe some owners are looking to bail-out or would want to partner with someone who would inject some capital to upgrade to a sports pub. Look into how well "protection services" are thriving in the area, a sports pub could be a magnet for that sort of thing.

Pub for sale in Rzeszów, 140m2 basement, 490,000zl
dom.gratka.pl/tresc/7-978775-podkarpackie-rzeszow-ospiastow.html

To rent, 329m2, 141m2 basement , 7125zl/month + media:
dom.gratka.pl/tresc/11-1599696-podkarpackie-rzeszow-srodmiescie.html

Real Estate / People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II [102]

Direct quote from Property Secrets - "But there is still a very healthy margin to be made again at Phase Two of Oak Terraces as we estimate a 40% increase in capital growth before completion. And with a further 30% predicted the following year – Katowice is THE place to invest in Poland right now."


Well you bought at 5600/m2? Just throw that number into the PS winning formula, and you should be looking for about 10,000/m2 any day now.


Take a poke around Gratka or KRN for Dębowe Tarasy, you have some competition on your sale.

Have you tried pushing back on the developer? Maybe there are some concessions to be made. They could be quite nervous at this point, I doubt that they are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of keeping your 20% deposit. They will still be stuck with an apartment to offload in a market without buyers. PS were pushing a large number of properties at this site, there must be a more like you in the same situation. Band together.

Some would say count yourself lucky on this. You haven't reached the point where you've dumped further cash in on the fit-out and are saddled with a mortgage for the remaining 80%. The net yields on these properties are abysmal, and you won't see any capital appreciation for years to come.

Life / MRI scanning machine in Krakow ? [5]

My wife just recently had an MRI done in Tarnów, about 1 hr east of Kraków by train. She called up both Kraków and Tarnów and was told that they would not accept any more ZUS patients in 2008 as they are fully booked. They told her to call back in January as they would not taking any bookings for 2009, until they renewed their contracts with ZUS. So it could well be February / March before she could get an appointment in either site.

But, the Tarnów hospital takes private bookings at just a few days notice. It costs about 500 - 600zl. I was impressed with the overall service and the quality of the hospital. It looks like it has just undergone a complete renovation. Only downside was waiting about 3 hrs past her appointment as people with more urgent needs were brought in right off the ambulances, bumping those with booked appointments.

I would certainly recomend it. In her case, she had the results in just 1/2 hr, but some people had to wait several hours, so if you are coming from Kraków book a morning appointment, so that you don't have to come back a second time to pick up the results.

Regarding Nowy Sącz - a friend had an MRI booked for there just 4 days ago for a back issue. She travelled all the way there in a great deal of pain to arrive and be told that the machine was broken.

UK, Ireland / What is the cheapest way to move house contents from Dublin to Warsaw? [6]

Flano,

Not exact Dublin, but I moved all of the contents of a 2bed apartment in London to Krakow area on the cheap 2 years ago. This was door-to-door service for everything from the sofa to the kids clothes for about £400.

I found the company through a local Polish mechanic. He had a few Polish couriers that shipped cars and heavy goods back and forth between Poland and UK and often went back empty to Poland. We used these guys: bluefenix.co.uk

You may want to see if they have any contacts in Dublin. Otherwise, I suggest just trying a local Polish travel agency in Dublin, as they will typically have arrangements for shipping parcels back "home".

Life / bed sheets in Poland...are them shorter ? [19]

Polish people, or the ones that I know, do not sleep under sheets, under any circumstance. They only use one sheet to cover the mattress, and then sleep directly under the duvet/comforter, no matter the season or room temperature.

Another related custom that I find quite strange is that two people sharing a bed always have their own duvet.

So if you were to check into a Polish run hotel outside of a major city your are most likely to end up in a queen size bed, with no sheet, and 2 small duvets.

Life / bed sheets in Poland...are them shorter ? [19]


Hmmmm, well I kinda look at it as a form of Polish birth control, this large "mountain duvet" between you and your significant other is not exactly conducive to intimacy.


Bingo! Yes, that's how beds work everywhere I've been.


Yes they are, but only to cover the mattress, never between the occupant and the duvet.

And one more thing I love about Polish beds, is this idea of refering to any bed large enough for 2 people as a "marital bed"

Life / bed sheets in Poland...are them shorter ? [19]

0/ pillowcase
1/ mattress pad - thick cottoney pad to protect the mattress, placed under the fitted sheet
2/ fitted sheet - sheet for covering the mattress,(and mattress pad) typically has elastic corners so as to fit snugly with the mattress
3/ flat sheet - on top of the fitted sheet, does not have elastic corners. You sleep between the fitted sheet and the flat sheet.
4/ duvet - with or without duvet cover.

In this scenario the flat sheet is always tucked into the end of the bed so it needs to be quite bit longer than the length of the mattress. As long as the flat sheet is long enough, it will stay tucked in and your feet will never stick out of the bed. If it is too warm, you just sleep between the sheets. Maybe this is just a Hotel / North America arrangement?

• 
  bed with fitted sheet, flat sheet and duvet
  
• 
  bed with fitted sheet, flat sheet and duvet
  

Life / Taxpayers subsidise priest's Alfa Romeo in Bielsko Biała [29]


Scandalous!


Can I get an Aaaa-men?


Preaching to the choir sister!

This is trully an outrage! 30,000 Polish priests not paying income tax, effectively subsidized by all of the hardworking taxpayers of Poland.

Now take that number of 30,000 and multiply it by a few hundred. This is the number of farmers in Poland who pay zero income tax, as farming in Poland is completely free from any income tax.

Are you proportionally a few hundred times more angry with farmers than with priests? And what kind of woman would date a farmer? ;)

Real Estate / People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II [102]

Here is a link to an interesting read in this week's WBJ about developers renting out unsold apartments: wbj.pl/article-43673-room-to-rent.html?type=lim

I see from the PS forums that there is some sentiment for bailing out on Polish properties and forfeiting deposits. Maybe there is an opportunity to work a deal with the developer on OT II. (i.e. dump the deal, but retain some of your deposit)

Summary: "Banks have tightened their lending policies and the economic slowdown has cut into residential profits, sending Polish developers scrambling for new solutions. One option is built-to-rent apartments. A large number of Polish developers have suspended plans to launch new construction projects. Finding new ways to attract customers for already complete apartments has become an urgent necessity in order for developers to divest themselves of unsold units."

Real Estate / People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II [102]


...IMHO
+ Will have a wealth of 1 and 2 bed apartments in Katowice finished to a very high standard to choose from, including scores coming on the market from O.T.

+ Are not in a position to afford to rent these high end apartments.
+ If they are able to afford such apartments they would opt to live in a very nice house in the suburbs, not in the centre of Katowice. Katowice is not Wroclaw, or Gdansk, or Krakow, or Warsaw. It is Katowice.

I think that the standard of Wroclaw Boy's finish is a serious upgrade from the many apartments that I have seen in Poland, and well represents what the typical tenant is able to afford, and would find attractive. But Eleanorconner does have a good point, O.T. is at the highest end of the Katowice market, and the finish should reflect that. I just don't believe that all of these high-end tenants exist.


Agreed. So your options are:
1.) A high-end finish, which can compete with other properties on the market, but will never produce a reasonable net yield on the property. The cost of this fit-out you may never recover.

2.) A mid-range finish like Wroclaw Boy's, which prospective tenants will pass over.
3.) Leave the apartment in black finish w/o tenants for a few years and hope that the sales market recovers.

With option 3 you will have a much better chance of selling a shell apartment, you won't dump any more cash into a property that you may never find a tenant for, and you won't have to spend all of the time and energy and resource over the next 5 years worrying about tenants, laws, mgmt agents, estate agents, solicitors, translators, utilities etc in a country that you don't live in or even speak the language.

Do the hard math on this. What is an honest vacancy rate? What are the chances that your tenant stops paying rent? (Do you even know how to evict a Polish tenant?), What will your tenant mgmt fees be? Building mgmt fees? How much will you pay an estate agent to find a tenant?

So maybe you finish the apartment and do make a monthly net yeild of £125, will this make much of a dent on your interest payments?

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

Good Luck

Work / ESCS in Tarnow, Poland - applied for an ESL job [6]

A Polish friend of mine worked at ESCS a few years ago, not in their Tarnow branch, but one of the 6 or 7 locations that they used to have. (I suppose that it could be of some concern that they are down to only 2 branches now.)

She had mixed feelings about the job. Most of her coworkers were Canadian and American, and she enjoyed working with them. She did have issues with being paid on time, but I think she was eventually paid all that she was owed.

25-30 zloty/hr sounds a bit low to me, but it really important to know if that is gross or net? At best you will take home 2400zl/month (30zl x20hr x 4 weeks). If accomodation is paid for ( I thought that they only paid the first week's accomodation), and you live a pretty modest lifestyle then you should squeek by. If you are ending up with something like 20zl/hr net, then you will have some trouble.

I don't think Tarnow is all that bad, although many Poles seem to detest the place. It is a good size city with all the services that you will need to get by. It is a bit dreary, but that is life in a Polish city (with a few key exceptions). The express train to Krakow is only 60 minutes, and the surrounding area is very nice. It is pretty cheap to live in by Polish standards.

It sounds like it could be a good entry into Poland. Get some teaching experience, life in Poland experience, and enough money to get by, and look for something better in the fall. Good luck

Life / Experiences Installing a Wireless Home Network in Poland [12]

Thanks for the quick feedback guys, it's a big help. davidpeake, Which Linksys device did you go with? I have 2 triple brick walls to go through to cover all rooms.


I'm thinking of an all-in-one device, just to keep things simple, and if need be I will add a WAP to that. Thanks for the pointer on the settings.

Real Estate / Typical flat offer prices in Poland [17]

Take the money and run. In the current economic situation and with no visibility of what the future holds I would sell, and sell quickly. And he is offering 25% above fair market value? Sell!

Of course you will need to have this done through a good solicitor and notary to ensure that if he "defaults" you will take back the property. And you want to charge interest on the loan at least to keep up with inflation. The only drawback I see is that he is a friend, and a loan between friends and family often becomes a "gift" or an end to a relationship. It would be much better if you didn't know the guy.


Obviously every situation is unique, but you are asking whether you should gamble on a potential future opportunity with many unpredictable variables, or cash-in at a known ROI.

Something I don't understand is why you are not renting the property out, you say that it is a long-term investment, yet the property has no yield? Sell!

Real Estate / Typical flat offer prices in Poland [17]


I've never considered or advertised myself as an expert on anything. I've learned a bit about the property market in Poland over the past few years and I have shared my personal insight and opinions with this forum. I'm flattered that you think that highly of me, but you should only take my advice as one opinion among the many required to form your own balanced personal opinion of the market.

I think it is unfortunate that many foreign investors who have purchased off-plan property in Poland over the past 18- 24 months are going to lose / have lost a considerable amount of money. My opinion is that many of these investors only sought (and continue to seek) the advice of market cheerleaders and did not reach a balanced view on market prospects.

For example, there are a number of postings on this forum from anxious investors who purchased property at Katowice Oak Terraces through a company called Property Secrets. Just 18 months ago, PS was telling investors that their initial investments of 5500zl/m2 would appreciate 40% before completion, and then a further 30% within the first year. That is 10,000zl/m2 for a black finish apartment. In Katowice! I don't understand how any investor seeking a serious balanced opinion could possibly buy into this concept. But they did, in scores.


I don't see why you have to be so rude about it. I believe my responses are informative, not "crap", and provide correct information. For the record I have never sold, nor sought to sell real estate. If someone is offered 25% over market value on any investment, house, boat or whatever then my advice is take the money. Is that not the whole basis of an investment?

I am still prepared to eat my shorts when there is a real estate crash in Poland. I am not of the opinion that there has been a real estate crash in Poland. There is certainly a pretty good slump brought on by tightening credit conditions, but the bulk of the housing market is in a relatively healthy state.

Of course there is a tremendous gross over-supply of high-end off-plan "investment" apartments, but this is a very tiny percentage of the total housing units in Poland. It is an unfortunate situation for developers and foreign investors. However the signs of a crash; the number of Poles in negative equity or foreclosure, are just not there.