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Typical flat offer prices in Poland


Smokeyone 17 | 62  
2 Feb 2009 /  #1
I have a nice one bedroom holiday flat in a town a couple of hours from Poznan or one hour from Leszno - central location, railway station, bus station & shops.

A really good friend of mine is interested in buying it from me, my flat is not really for sale - I had planned on keeping it for years as a long term investment.

He has offered me almost 50 per cent more than I purchased it for two years ago but the catch is he wishes to pay monthly instalments over five years. I do not mind so much the monthly instalments but is it a fare offer !!

What does the forum think......
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
2 Feb 2009 /  #2
monthly instalments

Would this be contractually and notarised?
What happens when he defaults on a payment?

have you concidered to let your flat out?
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
2 Feb 2009 /  #3
keep it and if you really want to sell it wait until PL enters the euro zone.
OP Smokeyone 17 | 62  
3 Feb 2009 /  #4
Either it let's to friends now and again or I stay there. Excluding contracts etc etc
and I do realise the pitfalls - if it was your flat would you hang on to it for - let's say five years and hope you get a good price or take a 50 per cent profit now spread over 60 months. Putting it another way - in five years do you think the flat would be worth a lot more than it is now....

Thanks for any thoughts

PS A very rough valuation is about 25 per cent more than I paid for it two years ago
unless someone tells me otherwise
ozdan 8 | 67  
3 Feb 2009 /  #5
I think you have to ask yourself why someone is offering you more than what it is valued at? that in itself sounds strange, especially in the current economic environment.
OP Smokeyone 17 | 62  
4 Feb 2009 /  #6
That's because it's in a ideal location for their work and his flat is further from their work and it's rental agreement (I do not know the Polish terms for this) is coming up for renewal.
nierozumiem 9 | 118  
4 Feb 2009 /  #7
Take the money and run. In the current economic situation and with no visibility of what the future holds I would sell, and sell quickly. And he is offering 25% above fair market value? Sell!

Of course you will need to have this done through a good solicitor and notary to ensure that if he "defaults" you will take back the property. And you want to charge interest on the loan at least to keep up with inflation. The only drawback I see is that he is a friend, and a loan between friends and family often becomes a "gift" or an end to a relationship. It would be much better if you didn't know the guy.

Putting it another way - in five years do you think the flat would be worth a lot more than it is now....

Obviously every situation is unique, but you are asking whether you should gamble on a potential future opportunity with many unpredictable variables, or cash-in at a known ROI.

Something I don't understand is why you are not renting the property out, you say that it is a long-term investment, yet the property has no yield? Sell!
bolek 6 | 330  
4 Feb 2009 /  #8
nierozumiem

You are another of these so called experts, not so long ago this was your response to a question of a possible real estate crash in Poland.

You may want to stick to selling real estate, stop talking crap and giving wrong information.

crash? Really. I’ll eat my shorts if we see that. A crash would be the result of a gross over-supply of housing units (ex. Ireland, Arizona, Spanish coasts), or a significant number of owners in negative equity that were unable to meet their mortgage payments (US Subprime – Detroit, Ohio, etc). The first instance clearly does not apply to Poland and the second instance is extremely unlikely as Polish lending standards are tight, very few owners are in negative equity positions, and strong wage growth should compensate for rate increases in PLN / EUR / CHF during this period.
Wroclaw Boy  
4 Feb 2009 /  #9
crash? Really. I’ll eat my shorts if we see that.

Thats funny, its true to say that nobody saw this one coming.
OP Smokeyone 17 | 62  
4 Feb 2009 /  #10
Although I understand unemplyment is rising in Poland I do not think it has half the troubles that the UK has and my guess would be that in a few years property prices will start rising again - however I have guessed wrong before and that was why I was seeking further advice.

Excluding all the pitfalls of selling to a friend (do not lend money to friends or family - very true) the opion seems to be biased in favour of holding onto the flat.

Am I correct in thinking that property prices are sliding down in Poland at the moment!
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
4 Feb 2009 /  #11
in five years do you think the flat would be worth a lot more than it is now....

I think so. When Spain entered the e-zone prices rose. In Poland it will be the same. Remember that owning a flat is a good investment . You can always rent your apartment. Its a good business too. If you dont desperately need money dont get rid of this. Not right now at least.
OP Smokeyone 17 | 62  
4 Feb 2009 /  #12
Would an estate agent be as good a way as any to find out the cuurent rental value.
I have noticed postcards in shop windows for flats to rent but none seem to mention money. My mate is currently paying - wait for it - 350zl a month - I assume that is ridiculously low by anyones standards even for Poland so I am guessing when he has his rental adjustment it will jump considerably....
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
4 Feb 2009 /  #13
350zl a month

for one room or for whole flat? in Krakow prices for one room are from 500 to 1400 and sometimes even more. depends on location, size and number of people living in it. still, Leszno is not Krakow, Wroclaw or Warszawa.
nierozumiem 9 | 118  
4 Feb 2009 /  #14
You are another of these so called experts.

I've never considered or advertised myself as an expert on anything. I've learned a bit about the property market in Poland over the past few years and I have shared my personal insight and opinions with this forum. I'm flattered that you think that highly of me, but you should only take my advice as one opinion among the many required to form your own balanced personal opinion of the market.

I think it is unfortunate that many foreign investors who have purchased off-plan property in Poland over the past 18- 24 months are going to lose / have lost a considerable amount of money. My opinion is that many of these investors only sought (and continue to seek) the advice of market cheerleaders and did not reach a balanced view on market prospects.

For example, there are a number of postings on this forum from anxious investors who purchased property at Katowice Oak Terraces through a company called Property Secrets. Just 18 months ago, PS was telling investors that their initial investments of 5500zl/m2 would appreciate 40% before completion, and then a further 30% within the first year. That is 10,000zl/m2 for a black finish apartment. In Katowice! I don't understand how any investor seeking a serious balanced opinion could possibly buy into this concept. But they did, in scores.

You may want to stick to selling real estate, stop talking crap and giving wrong information.

I don't see why you have to be so rude about it. I believe my responses are informative, not "crap", and provide correct information. For the record I have never sold, nor sought to sell real estate. If someone is offered 25% over market value on any investment, house, boat or whatever then my advice is take the money. Is that not the whole basis of an investment?

I am still prepared to eat my shorts when there is a real estate crash in Poland. I am not of the opinion that there has been a real estate crash in Poland. There is certainly a pretty good slump brought on by tightening credit conditions, but the bulk of the housing market is in a relatively healthy state.

Of course there is a tremendous gross over-supply of high-end off-plan "investment" apartments, but this is a very tiny percentage of the total housing units in Poland. It is an unfortunate situation for developers and foreign investors. However the signs of a crash; the number of Poles in negative equity or foreclosure, are just not there.
Wroclaw Boy  
4 Feb 2009 /  #15
I am still prepared to eat my shorts when there is a real estate crash in Poland.

I like your posts Nierozumium and I agree with you on most accounts, i myself have stated here that prices will remain flat for years.

However you may wish to begin marinating those shorts.
bolek 6 | 330  
5 Feb 2009 /  #16
I'm flattered that you think that highly of me,

True, I respect your point of view. There is no doubt in my mind that property prices in Poland will still fall, however some properties will hold in value.

Its now a time to hold onto properties. As I mentioned in a previous post if you take into account the fall and rise of the US dollar, real estate prices have gone done by approx 33 odd percent.

However you may wish to begin marinating those shorts.

I could suggest a good marinade.
ash1972 3 | 88  
5 Feb 2009 /  #17
Of course there is a tremendous gross over-supply of high-end off-plan “investment” apartments

I wouldn't tar all high end developments with the same brush. Personally I think *well located* high end city centre developments in Warsaw and Krakow will do well long term.

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