History /
Are Germans going to pay for WW2? [180]
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Why do you even bother to ask when you're not willing to listen? Krzysztof gave you a reasonable explanation and all you can do is come up with a pathetic excuse. What I would like to see is a compelling argument on your part dismissing this point of view. No one here is trying to convince you that allies betrayed Poland. This debate is not about; what could have been done after the war? This is not even a premise for this discussion. To understand it better some historical background of which you might not be aware is required.
So let's start with Polish government. The Polish Government in Exile, based first in Paris and then in London, was recognized by all the Allied governments. When Germany attacked the Soviet Union Joseph Stalin started to seek help from other countries opposing Hitler. Strongly encouraged by British Foreign Office Sikorski opened negotiations with the Soviet ambassador to London, to re-establish diplomatic relations between Poland and the Soviet Union. Later that year, Sikorski went to Moscow with a diplomatic mission. Sikorski was the architect of the agreement reached by both governments, that was finally signed on August 17, 1941. The Polish Government in Exile established diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union, despite Stalin's role in the earlier dismemberment of Poland. The Sikorski-Mayski Agreement was a treaty between Soviet Union and Poland signed in London in 1941. Joseph Stalin agreed to declare all previous pacts he had with Nazi Germany null and void, invalidate the September 1939 Soviet-German partition of Poland and release tens of thousands of Polish prisoners-of-war held in Soviet camps. Pursuant to an agreement between the Polish government-in-exile and Stalin, the Soviets granted "amnesty" to many Polish citizens. This demonstrates the willingness to use legitimate Polish government in Exile to negotiate with Stalin to achieve their objective and further strengthens the legitimacy of this government accepted by all sides USSR and Allies. Stalin then severed relations with the Polish Government in Exile when it was apparent that it would be the Soviet Union, not the western Allies, who would liberate Poland from the Germans, this makes it unmistakable what the objective of the USSR was and whether they were friend or foe.
Now let's look at the formation of Polish army in USSR; Hundreds of thousands of Polish soldiers who had been taken prisoner by the Soviets in eastern Poland in 1939, and many civilian Polish prisoners and deportees, were released. Both Gulag prisoners and deported exiles were officially freed, and allowed to join a new division of the Polish army, to be formed on Soviet soil. Following rumors of the formation of Polish army, the released Polish prisoners hitchhiked and rode trains around the Soviet Union, looking for the Polish army to join. Some joined General Anders army, they were evacuated to Iran and the Middle East, where they were desperately needed by the British, hard pressed by Rommel's Afrika Korps. These Polish units formed the basis for the Polish 2nd Corps, which together with other, earlier-created Polish units fought alongside the Allies. Some eventually joined the Kosciuszko division, a Polish division of the Red Army. Others had to wait for the war to end to be repatriated. Still others never left at all. To this day, some of their descendants still live in ethnic Polish communities in Kazakhstan and northern Russia. It also demonstrates the intentions of Soviet Government since the released prisoners were simply not told the true purpose of their release but to get a residence permit or find work instead.
The Cairo Conference 1943. The three main clauses of the conference are that "Japan be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of 1914", "all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China", and that "in due course Korea shall become free and independent".
Now let's move forward to the core of the matter.
Tehran Conference 1943 in Tehran, Iran well ahead of the final outcome of the war. The Big Three Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill. Major conclusions of that conference; Britain and the U.S. promised Stalin that they would send troops to Western Europe. It was agreed that they would arrive in the spring of 1944. At the insistence of Stalin, the borders of post-war Poland were determined along the Oder and Neisse rivers and the Curzon line. Even though Poland was an ally with a legitimate government in place it is conveniently missing from this conference even though it concerns the future of Poland and its final borders.
The Yalta Conference 1945 all three leaders were trying to establish an agenda for governing post-war Germany. Also, the Big Three agreed that all original governments would be restored to the invaded countries with the exception of the French government which was regarded as collaborationist, in Romania and Bulgaria the Soviets had already liquidated most of the government, the Polish government in exile was to be excluded and that all civilians would be repatriated. Democracies would be established and all countries would hold free elections and European order restored per this statement.
Stalin stated the Soviet case:
"For the Russian people, the question of Poland is not only a question of honor but also a question of security. Throughout history, Poland has been the corridor through which the enemy has passed into Russia. Twice in the last thirty years our enemies, the Germans, have passed through this corridor. It is in Russia's interest that Poland should be strong and powerful, in a position to shut the door of this corridor by her own force...It is necessary that Poland should be free, independent in power. Therefore, it is not only a question of honor but of life and death for the Soviet state".
The Russians would keep the territory they had already annexed in eastern Poland, and Poland was to be compensated for that by extending its Western borders at the expense of Germany. Stalin promised free elections in Poland despite the recently installed Communist puppet government.
Key points; the status of Poland was discussed. It was agreed to reorganize the communist Provisional Government of the Republic of Poland that had been set up by the Red Army. The Polish eastern border would follow the Curzon Line, and Poland would receive territorial compensation in the west from Germany.
The Potsdam Conference 1945 the final nail in the coffin, again The Big Three. The French were not invited to participate and although Poland made the fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort, after the Soviets, the British and the Americans, Polish leaders were not invited to participate in the conference even though earlier they had been promised entry.
The goal of the conference establishment of post war order.
Key points; Stalin proposed and it was accepted that Poland was to be excluded from division of German compensation to be later granted 15% of compensation given to Soviet Union which has never happened. A Provisional Government of National Unity recognized by all three powers should be created. Recognition of the Soviet controlled government by the Western Powers effectively meant end of recognition for the existing Polish government in Exile. Poles who were serving in the British Army should be free to return to Poland, with no security upon their return to the communist country guaranteed. The provisional western border should be the Oder-Neisse line, defined by the Oder and Neisse rivers. Parts of East Prussia and the former Free City of Danzig should be under Polish administration. However the final delimitation of the western frontier of Poland should await the peace settlement which would take place at the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany in 1998.
Given all those facts it is obvious that the major players were trying to establish new geopolitical reality of the post war world beginning in 1943. I'm not suggesting that Poland was a major player and should have been a part of those meetings which determined the faith of the world, but it should have been included or at least consulted on the parts that was to be our future. In 1943, at the time when Allies political support for Poland was crucial we were dishonored by the so called allies and friends. I left out the speculations and motives behind the decisions it's irrelevant and simply stated the facts. You might call it a raw deal, bad luck, new political reality or whatever other name you wish but we call it betrayal, and it hurts even more when it's perpetrated by your so called friends.
Now if you like to discuss it at length with someone I suggest you find yourself a Pole and have this conversation over a paint of beer. I'm sure you will find him/her very opinionated and the conversation pleasant but you will not be able to change their opinion on this topic. The resentment is there that's true, but to simply assert that you're hated more than others is false. In any case you're entitled to your opinion.
