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Day of exchange of contracts with property sellers in Poland


mcm1 2 | 81
2 Jul 2013 #1
A bit of advice required please.

We have at last come to the final proceedings and have agreed a date to exchange contracts etc.early August.

The sellers are now saying that they require a minimum of two weeks to move out of the property AFTER the final exchange.
In the copy of the contract the agent is asking us to agree too it is also noted the same.

Is this just another Polish quirk as in quite usual, the agent thinks so.

In my mind we would exchange contracts, pay any dues i.e. taxes etc. owed (as we have done in other countries) and the house is ours from that point.

I wanted to have the locks changed right after the exchange, not that we don't trust the sellers but why on earth would we let someone continue to live in OUR new house at our expence.

To give a more complete view, we have bought the house complete with all the furniture, electronics etc. not what we initially wanted but the sellers say they are moving to Germany and don't want to take anything with them just their clothes so a deal was struck.

Ant advice or comments gratefully recieved.
johnb121 4 | 184
2 Jul 2013 #2
Sounds to me like they're stringing you along. We'd told our vendors to move what they wanted out of the house before we went to the lawyers, so money changed hands, keys went the other way, and we had the house and all they left in it. Vacant possession, in other words. Next time we saw the vendor was when they popped in for a coffee and to see how we were doing.

And why would they need two weeks to more their clothes out? Suggest that if they need somewhere to live for ("a minimum of") two weeks they find a hotel or some accomodating relatives. Otherwise, how can you be sure they'll EVER move out?
DominicB - | 2,678
2 Jul 2013 #3
Indeed. I would not authorize any transfer of funds unless you are in FULL possession of the property, and the sellers have completely moved out for good. There is something fishy going on here. If you can't arrange things exactly to your liking, then follow your instict and pull out completely. Otherwise, you're likely to get ripped off.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jul 2013 #4
The sellers are now saying that they require a minimum of two weeks to move out of the property AFTER the final exchange.

Hmm usually it's put in the contract more or less the way that "the buyer becomes the owner after he transfers x of PLN to the bank account of the seller, which must happen within [for example 30 days from now] and after the money is transferred, the seller must leave the property no later than on... "

So I see nothing wrong here. You can (and should) put in the contract what stays in the house (i.e. furniture etc.) and that's it. I really wonder...

AFTER the final exchange.

what you call "the final exchange" and how you were doing it in other countries ? You came with a suitcase full of cash and previous owners were waiting there for you with all their belongings put into some van ?
OP mcm1 2 | 81
2 Jul 2013 #5
Thanks for your replies so far.
Grzegorz to answer your points;
when the final transfer is done in the notaries office i.e. money exchanged and any taxes due are payed is when we would like to take poccession of the property, not several weeks later, does this seem unreasonable to you?

We have purchased appartments in 2 other European places as well as houses twice in England. On each occasion the transfer of funds was completed either electronically or with a bankers draft in either the notaire or solicitors office, this is when we have exchanged keys etc. It is quite usual in the UK for the sellers to have a removals van booked and loaded with their goods, as soon as the contracts etc are signed and exchanged the property is now ours. In Spain they had emptied their belongings beforehand, in France they took what they wanted and left us the rubbish to dispose off!

Before anyone thinks we are some kind of property moguls nothing could be further from the truth. We have both worked hard and chose to buy property where we liked to visit, they are for our own personal use.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
2 Jul 2013 #6
The sellers are now saying that they require a minimum of two weeks to move out of the property AFTER the final exchange.

It's not abnormal in Poland - what normally happens is that they use the time to find a temporary property to move to. If you're not comfortable with it, simply tell them that you want a reduction in the selling price by x% to compensate for their usage of the property during that time. Or offer to rent it back to them for two weeks, or simply tell them that you'll delay the purchase by another two weeks.

Otherwise, how can you be sure they'll EVER move out?

Quite easily - the purchase agreement is binding. If they don't go after two weeks, then you can throw the book at them. It should also be possible to note in the purchase agreement an address that they agree to be 'evicted' to if they remain after those two weeks.

Hmm usually it's put in the contract more or less the way that "the buyer becomes the owner after he transfers x of PLN to the bank account of the seller, which must happen within [for example 30 days from now] and after the money is transferred, the seller must leave the property no later than on... "

Doesn't seem a problem for me - I can understand why sellers might not be happy to move out straight away if they're waiting for a bank transfer.

does this seem unreasonable to you?

It's not unreasonable, but you should make it clear that you don't agree to such a condition. It's a buyer's market right now in Poland, so you can easily negotiate this point away.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jul 2013 #7
does this seem unreasonable to you?

As these days majority of properties is being bought with money lent by the banks, it takes some days between a contract is signed and the money shows up on the sellers' account... and only after they get the money, they start packing up their stuff, so... I'm not selling a house every single day but here it would look like more or less as follows:

You sign a notarial contract on let's say 15th July, till July 30th they need to get the money, If they get the money, they have to move out, no later than on let's say 15th August, before that day they have to arrange the actual "final exchange" with you, when you check If everything is fine (if they left the furniture as was agreed etc.) and they give you the keys.. I think there's a misunderstanding what you call the final exchange, you think they want to stay there for 2 weeks after you take it over and move in, they want to have up to 2 weeks to leave the place after you pay them...

I think you would like to sort it all out in one day, sign the contract, give them cash, get the key ? It should be doable but they want to avoid it, what If you change your mind, they will be moving to Germany with unsold house in Poland. I don't know these people but overall I see nothing strange here.
OP mcm1 2 | 81
2 Jul 2013 #8
Thanks again, you all have the correct understanding of the situation.
I did email the agent and said if the sellers want to exchange at a later date to give them time to organise their life then it makes no odds to us.

The reply just now is whatever date we exchange and pay them the balance of money etc. they still want to stay in the property for at least 2 further weeks, this is what is concerning me and in my experience has never happened previously.

In my mind that could give them 2 weeks to empty OUR property, trash it or whatever and leaves us with the problems to resolve. It also means I have to make an extra trip to make sure the house is as it should be when they do leave.

We are not intending to live in this house full time untill we retire, maybe I should have made that clearer to you earlier, everyone else involved is aware of it.
Wroclaw Boy
2 Jul 2013 #9
The sellers are now saying that they require a minimum of two weeks to move out of the property AFTER the final exchange.

Once they move out then you pay them - that should put a rocket up their backsides. Its not uncommon for these details to be thrashed out prior to the final notary appointment.
poland_
2 Jul 2013 #10
You can (and should) put in the contract what stays in the house (i.e. furniture etc.) and that's it. I really wonder..

That is what I was going to mention, there should be a appendix to the contract with a list of the goods you have bought, it would be normal in Poland to pay 90% and hold back 10% until you have inspected/inventory and they have vacated. What happens if they decide to throw a going away party and wreck the place.
OP mcm1 2 | 81
2 Jul 2013 #11
O.K. I have a plan to put forward to the vendors so lets see if you good people would be happy with it first.

We both share the same bank and branch in Poland, we know this as when we transfered the deposit it was handled by the bank cashier in front of all partys involved.The vendors were there just in case we had any problems.

How about I suggest we do exactly the same with the final payment.
We all meet at the house and check all is as it should be, drive into town and do all the paperwork in the notaries office then walk 200m to the bank and transfer the money, they hand us the keys and everyone should be happy.

OR is it possible to get a bankers draft from the bank, this is as good as cash anywhere?
poland_
3 Jul 2013 #12
Set up a escrow account with the bank.


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