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Life after death?


OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #31
But who will torture you for eternity if you guess wrong

Better I ask you who do you think will torture you for eternity if you guess wrong.
If I guess wrong I am still covered as I have nothing to lose, if you guess wrong I think t says something about gnashing teeth for eternity.

Again it's your choice.
mafketis 24 | 9,351
23 Jun 2020 #32
If I guess wrong I am still covered as I have nothing to lose

There are other versions of hell.... so even if you're right about there being some kind of deity you still could be wrong and in for a rough time...

And does faith even count if a person is motivated primarily by fear? Love and fear are mutually exclusive emotions...
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #33
There are other versions of hell....

My version is called the Lake of Fire.

you still could be wrong and in for a rough time...

Not if you are strong in your faith like I am.
It's only people like you that are clueless to what faith is and how it works that could be in for a rough time.

And does faith even count if a person is motivated primarily by fear?

People with faith are not motivated by fear as the are sucure in their faith.
AntV 2 | 167
23 Jun 2020 #34
It won`t be a person any longer.

What is a person? Is a person, in the Christian view, at least, not a body and soul? The Catholic Church teaches it is. It goes further by saying that the soul and body are an intrinsic natural unit. The soul takes the form of the body (not in the sense of taking on the contours of the body, but that it gives the matter of the body life). The Catechism notes that "in Sacred Scripture the term soul often refers...to the entire human person."

So, the soul is a distinct and unique person. It is a person, i.e. the soul, that eternally gazes at the Beatific Vision or wallows in the abyss of nothingness.

our personality located right now? In the brain. Are we going to keep it after death? No.

Are you basically saying that the intellect and will (which comprise our personality) equals the brain?

What do you think the soul is?

I support the idea of...eternal soul (existed long bevor it started...in this body and will keep...existing after...this body)

But, does the soul have a beginning? If so, from where did it come from?

I'm not sold on the religious, human explanations like heaven or hell...

What would you say are the religious explanations? I think that would make for interesting conversation, BB :)

I'm not sold on the concept of an allmighty god either

Yeah, but you're a thinker, so there's always hope. :) :) Again, the making of interesting conversation: what do you find to be the stumbling blocks to buying the concept of an almighty God?

Nothing is being said about whether you'd actually like the god or heaven.

But, at least from a Catholic perspective (and most mainline Protestant ones), that's not how God or heaven is viewed. It's not so much a matter of personal tastes or preferences, but a view that comes from an understanding that God, in His basic essence, is existence. He's not the Spaghetti Monster in the Sky, but existence itself. We are because He is. In scripture he reveals Himself as I Am. This essence encapsulates other qualities such as perfect love, perfect knowing, perfect order, etc. So, it's not about taste, but about actualization of our purpose, which is to be in perfect loving communion with the Creator.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
23 Jun 2020 #35
what do you find to be the stumbling blocks to buying the concept of an almighty God?

As I said, it's the human interpretation that is just not enough for me....

The concept of an almighty, controlling, rewarding, punishing god belongs to people with barely any understanding of their world around them at all. Religion was made by and for these people...and it was enough for thousands of years. But with our continously rising knowledge of the universe and our place innit people just grow out if it, I guess.

For example....people who survived NDE's often speak of an "all-embracing" being if you so want...but it's neither christian nor muslim nor jewish nor hindu or anything like we imagined for so long...and it demands neither these written and learned rules nor metes out such feared punishments belonging to these religions. After having an NDE you could more or less throw away the holy books (and many do)...but not the idea of such a being or the existence of an undying soul...they have just experienced it after all...

Tons of such cases make for a very interesting lecture...and they often differ wildly to that what is still preached in our churches...call that my "stumbling blocs" if you so want!

So, in my opinion we should take on the idea of another dimension(s?)...of the possibility of the existence without our body...of other beings more powerful than us....more with an scientific, technological mind than with age old beliefs and dogmas only.

After all if mankind at some time in the future travels the stars and should meet a young civilization in a pre-technological stadium...would their worship of us, their awe and fear, make us to almighty gods?
pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jun 2020 #36
Are you basically saying that the intellect and will (which comprise our personality) equals the brain?

Yes, personality located in the brain isn`t the same as soul to me. Why? Because the Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God-it is not produced by the parents. We know from real life experience that a child may inherit certain personality traits from his/her parents. Also, we know that one`s personality and way of thinking may change throughout life, willfully or in result of external factors. We know that one day one`s personality may disintegrate due to mental disorders. etc etc.

Isn`t it obvious that the Man`s soul is a seperate entity than personality? It is certain spiritual factor which animates the body and doesn`t undergo any changes or influence coz it is God`s own creation.
Lenka 3 | 2,553
23 Jun 2020 #37
Lenka, your dog, your family and your friends are all mortal to the world.
The world will soon be gone and then what ?

So my love to them doesn't count because that god made them mortal? ( not to mention that their souls are supposed to be imortal too)

how to make Him your best friend.

Yes, how and not if you want to. The older I am the more I know I don't like the being described in the Bible.

He is a very loving God

I wonder how anyone can describe the Christian God as loving with a straight face.

that's not how God or heaven is viewed.

But maybe it should. It's hard to like the 'guy's after reading the Bible. To the point that non existence seems like a good option.
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #38
So my love to them doesn't count

Sure it does but it is a temporary love while the love for God is for eternity.
How long is eternity Lenka ?

I know I don't like the being described in the Bible.

That shows you just how powerful Satan is.

I wonder how anyone can describe the Christian God as loving

Their faith allows them to see the light that you are blind to.
Like the song 'Amazing Grace' says, "I once was blind but now I see... twas grace that saved wretch like me, I once was lost but now I'm found.. was blind but now I see."

Google the lyrics of that song as it explains it all Lenka.
Maybe that will help you break the hold that Satan has on you.
Lenka 3 | 2,553
23 Jun 2020 #39
it is a temporary love

I don't think that a parent's love for a kid is temporary.

That shows you just how powerful Satan is.

He changed the stories in the Bible? He flooded the earth and he banished human race from heaven for the mistakes of two people?

Their faith allows them to see the light that you are blind to.

Anything can be excused by faith, even biggest atrocities. Even the once committed are allowed for by god.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of there being no after life.
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #40
I don't think that a parent's love for a kid is temporary.

One last time Lenka, anything of the world in the world will turn to dust so it is temporary.
How long is eternity Lenka ?

He changed the stories in the Bible?

The stories can't be changed, only the interpretation of them can be changed.

He flooded the earth and he banished human race from heaven for the mistakes of two people?

He did ? Two people ? You seem confused here.
The Bible explained that the reason why God sent the flood was because both men and the earth itself were corrupted (Gen. 6:5-7, 11-13).
There was so much evil and perversion that the only way to save the world was to pull out evil from its root and to keep alive the only good thing that was still left.

With the flood God saved the world.
Satan is in control of the world Lenka and his main tool is lies, (which you are caught up in), perversion, drugs, and money.
So when you continue to harp on worldly goods and desires of life and I keep harping on faith, grace and spiritual life it really becomes a moot point.

This is why you refuse to answer my question of how long eternity is.
Life is like a wisp of steam off your hot coffee in terms of eternity.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of there being no after life.

Except you are not in charge and it is not your call of what after life (spiritual life) will be like.
Sounds like you may be a little nervous about after life.
Lenka 3 | 2,553
23 Jun 2020 #41
anything of the world in the world will turn to dust so it is temporary.

So you want to say that love for god is different? If that is the case it shouldn't be called love. If it's the same why should one last and not the other?

He did ? Two people ? You seem confused here.

I meant two different occurrences. Both though speak of nothing I would recognise as love

Except you are not in charge and it is not your call of what after life (spiritual life) will be like.

Neither are you. But I'm not the one claiming to have all the answers. I accept there might be heaven I just said that it doesn't seem like something I would like. And no, I'm not worried. I believe I will just stop being

One option in Catolicism I like is the idea of purgatory. I know not all Christian religions have that concept.

Nice idea in Pratchett books is that everybody gets an afterlife they believe in. That would be cool.
mafketis 24 | 9,351
23 Jun 2020 #42
Not if you are strong in your faith like I am.

What faith would that be?
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #43
That would be the same faith that 2.4 Billion Christians have.
Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." (Eternal Salvation)

"Whatever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23) and God hates sin.
When we don't believe God, we treat Him like He is a liar.
Remember that He is everywhere and sees all things.
And maffy since you have no desire to become a Christian, why do you keep challenging faith ?
Seems you are more than comfortable living in your Godless world being your own boss which would make you your own little self appointed god.
mafketis 24 | 9,351
23 Jun 2020 #44
same faith that 2.4 Billion Christians

You're a Christian???? Get out of here!
Lazarus 1 | 114
23 Jun 2020 #45
In the real world he's an elder at his church. And he drives all the way to Florida to volunteer at a Christian shelter for abused children. Best not all when the kids got abused.
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #46
You're a Christian????

See just how clueless you are when it comes to Christianity.
I know you and Lenka expect all Christians to be sinless but we are not, in fact.....no man on earth is sinless including you.

How many times do I have to keep telling you that or were you just trying to be a comedic again.

In the real world he's an elder at his church.

Now who are you talking about J.D............., J.R.W or J.R. ? lol

Best not all when the kids got abused.

You are the one who is always posting about your sexual fantasies in detail here, not I.

If you don't want to pull your cock or stroke your pussy, then dont.

There's certainly not a PhD thesis in why you are so obsessed with big black c*ck,

You should not be let anywhere near children just like your other cohorts here.
Any grown man with such nasty bar talk on a public forum needs to get the taste slapped out of his mouth.
You do know that you are mentally ill don't you Doug.
Lenka 3 | 2,553
23 Jun 2020 #47
I know you and Lenka expect all Christians to be sinless but we are not, in fact.....no man on earth is sinless including you.

Oh no, I don't. I know enough of them to know that they are as nasty as any other group. You are just another example to prove it
Crow 146 | 9,097
23 Jun 2020 #48
When Slavic person dies soul joins with the force of the spiritual Slavdom. All our ancestors are there.
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
23 Jun 2020 #49
they are as nasty as any other group. You are just another example to prove it

And since we all have seen YOUR nasty side.....jump in the boat and grab an oar as we are ALL in the same boat together now aren't we.

In other words, judge not or you will be judged in the same way. ;-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
23 Jun 2020 #50
All our ancestors are there.

....if they aren't busy right now with another journey in another body in this dimension again.

spiritual Slavdom.

....According to Parnia, near death experiences' interpretations are influenced by religious, social, cultural backgrounds. However, the core elements appear to transcend borders and can be considered universal. In fact, some of these core elements have even been reported by children <3 years old (this occurred over many months, whilst playing and communicated using children's language). In other words, at an age where they should not have been influenced by culture or tradition.[33]

Also, according to Greyson,[11] the central features of NDEs are universal and have not been influenced by time. These have been observed throughout history and in different cultures.....


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience#Cross-cultural_aspects
Crow 146 | 9,097
23 Jun 2020 #51
All in all, the afterlife is what we want for us. So, I want to be with my ancestors and I will be with them. I will prove worthy.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
23 Jun 2020 #52
All in all, the afterlife is what we want for us.

Agreed!
OP johnny reb 28 | 5,248
24 Jun 2020 #53
All I can say personally is that when I gave my life to the Lord I felt a huge weight off my shoulders.
Since then I have became a completely different person with a holy calm that I never experienced before.
The hard part is that it is not easy giving up those pet sins.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
24 Jun 2020 #54
The hard part could also be to decide which are REALLY sins and which are not, which don't concern that "being" at all, which is all human interpretation only.

I mean...murder, okay....I don't think that makes anybody happy....but for example sex or good food? Have fun, I'm just saying...
Vlad1234 16 | 753
24 Jun 2020 #55
Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God-it is not produced by the parents.

Where did you take it from? Could you provide any citations? I cannot remember any religion says something certain about it.
pawian 176 | 14,299
24 Jun 2020 #56
Have you ever been interested in it or got interested reading this thread? :):)

Here you are: my original words were taken directly from this publication

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Point 366

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p6.htm
Vlad1234 16 | 753
24 Jun 2020 #57
How soul is physically connected to a body? If both are of completely different nature and soul is completely immaterial what forces it to stay inside of body?
pawian 176 | 14,299
24 Jun 2020 #58
How soul is physically connected to a body?

It circulates within the body freely, permeates every cell, tissue, organ.

what forces it to stay inside of body?

Certain imperative ordained onto them by God at the moment of conception.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
25 Jun 2020 #59
what forces it to stay inside of body?

Soul = energy = can't be "made" nor "ended".

The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another.

One could think of the human body as a container...or a converted form of our soul/energy. That would mean our soul is really in every part of us...our tiniest cell atoms! Not only in our brain...
Crow 146 | 9,097
28 Jun 2020 #60
Soul = energy = can't be "made" nor "ended".

I concur.

mean our soul is really in every part of us...our tiniest cell atoms! Not only in our brain...

But the brain is essential. That is that converter of energy. Other parts of the body just receiving soul as a kind of radiation. The brain is a converter, I am sure of it. Medicine find a way to prolong the life of the brain and eternal life is possible or nigh ``eternal``. Just transplant brain in cybernetic body and that`s it.


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