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Why WERE Those Death Camps Built in Poland, Then?


jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #1
The krauts didn't consult a magic 8 ball, or throw darts at a map. They built those camps here for a reason, as they did everything for a reason. Could that reason be, that the country that had performed the Kielce Pogroms, and the less than welcoming bonfires of Jedwabne, just MIGHT be a nice area to set up a system of Jew-killing apparatus? Who would complain? Poles hoped to appease Germany, and the didn't so much as BLINK when it came to offering up Jews as a token sacrifice. I love Poland, I love her people. But don't deny the anti-semitism in this country that made it so feasible to build death camps here. And don't deny that your complicity to give up part of your population weakened the rest of you for the coming onslaught. You committed TWO crimes. one against your fellow Poles, the ones who WERE Jewish, and the ones who WEREN'T. Don't dismiss Polish complicity. Suck it up, admit your past wrongdoings, admit there's still PLENTY of Poles that use the word "Jew" as an insult, and then we can all meet on a level field, and discuss things rationally. Before then, we can't.
1jola 14 | 1,883    
  5 Jun 2012  #2
You seem dumb and uneducated, but that is not a crime, so relax and perhaps read a book or two on WWII.

The Einsatzgruppen initiated crime in Jedwabne in 1941 sure gets a lot of milage, The UB provocation in Kielce was after the war. That gets a lot of milage too.

The Germans, not Krauts as you call them, built the extermination camps where there was the largest concentration of Jews in Europe. They were very practical. That should make sense even to you.

Here is a question for you. Why do you think practically all the Jews in Europe decided to live in Poland?
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
  5 Jun 2012  #3
It was a logistical problem. the Final Solution was to over come the difficulty of killing so many people.

The Germans choose a place with good railway connections with the rest of Europe and sparse local population - that could be reduced further - so there were few witness.

Poland was also a good choice, because after the Jews, the catholic Poles and other Slavs were going to the gas chambers. Poland's population was going to be reduced by 90%.

Stalin use a similar idea, but different execution. He worked people to death so even in death they were useful. 50% death through starvation/exhaustion/exposure per year has the advantage of not looking like deliberate genocide and simply bad luck.
Wroclaw Boy    
5 Jun 2012  #4
Lots of Jews in Poland = Kill them in Poland
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,180    
  5 Jun 2012  #5
All those, who surprised that Poles get irritated over "Polish death camps" and such should come and see this this post.

In fact, we should save it and add to all official complains in such cases, as an example of... you know what...
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
5 Jun 2012  #6
Lots of Jews in Poland = Kill them in Poland

and

Lots of catholic Poles in Poland = Kill them in Poland

Reading the wiki article explains it in detail.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp

For instance, a 40km area around the camps were emptied of the local population, presumable so they couldn't be witnesses (smoke/smell).

This ignores the camps that were in Germany. The German locals didn't appreciate have stinking concentration camp.
OP jasondmzk    
  5 Jun 2012  #7
You seem dumb and uneducated, but that is not a crime, so relax and perhaps read a book or two on WWII.

My grandfather was just as dumb and uneducated when he saved the world in war I've ready plenty of books about. Several I got from one several public libraries in a town of 150,000. How many public libraries does Poland have? You know, there's more libraries in America NAMED the "Poland Public Library" than there are ACTUAL public libraries in your nascent democracy?

Yes... maybe hmm... maybe because the largest concentration of Jews in the world was in Poland... ?

Right, and the Romanians too, they musta been caught on holiday in beautiful Katowice.

About as much as I love you.

You think I can't despise what a country has done, and still hold loyalty and fondness in my heart for her? I'm American. A country we stole from one group of people, then built on the backs of another. And yet, yup. still love the ol' U.S. o' A.

Right, and the Romanians too, they musta been caught on holiday in beautiful Katowice.

Get down, suck my dick, give me all your money and then let's discuss.

Grow one and earn some, and you got yourself a deal. Forgive my breath for not being held.

Dude... we've seen on these forums the whole crowds of freaks but you are really outstanding one.

I'm an outstanding crowd, how wonderful! Do I get a trophy?

You made the IDEAL location for those myriad camps, based on ONE reason, NOT several. Geography didn't play a flea's nut in the reasoning. It was that Poland was the country most likely to turn a blind eye to what went on in those camps. That's it. Drop curtain. Show's over.
rybnik 18 | 1,466    
  5 Jun 2012  #8
Don't dismiss Polish complicity.

I'm assuming that you're young and that the above is what you were taught by your elders. If so, I am not at all encouraged that a resolution to the problem between Poles and its Jews exists. India and Pakistan comes to mind. It's really very sad.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,180    
5 Jun 2012  #9
so there were few witness.

I don't think Gerrries cared about that... In fact, "the world" might not know much about the camps but it was not any secret that they were killing Jews... "the world" cared about it as much as about Tutsi being killed not so long ago... that including American Jews, who now scream the loudest... The reasons why holocaust became so well known and important were 1. to justify punishment Gerries received 2. due to growing influence of Jews around the world and self promotion of their victimhood...

Romanians

You are even more messed up than I thought...
OP jasondmzk    
  5 Jun 2012  #10
I'm assuming that you're young and that the above is what you were taught by your elders.

Not so very young. And my elders never mentioned Poland. I didn't wanna believe that Poland had facilitated the terrorizing and execution of her people and mine. I'd still love to think they had no choice. It would be wonderful to point at a despotic, dead regime, and lay all blame at the foot of its dark burial ground. But such is not to be. And no, I do NOT conflate the acts of SOME Polish then with ALL Polish, now. But let's not dismiss thoughts that prove burdensome to bear. Let's trust our eyes and ears, and trust our backs to carry painful news, without stooping, or without asking strangers to carry out load.

It is NOT like Israel and Palestine. Those two are relevant to each other. Their relationship is often hostile and bitter. The flames still exist in that complicated dance they step. Poland has forsaken the Jewish people, and yet still pretend to be pertinent to them I assure you they are not. Poland is place Jewish children visit with their classmates, and laugh at the Soviet-Era hotels they stay in, and laugh uneasily at the camps their great-grandfather's slaved and died in. It is a morbid tourist stop, not one thing more.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,180    
5 Jun 2012  #11
Poland is place Jewish children visit with their classmates, and laugh at the Soviet-Era hotels they stay in, and laugh uneasily at the camps their great-grandfather's slaved and died in. It is a morbid tourist stop, not one thing more.

Maybe... so ?
rybnik 18 | 1,466    
5 Jun 2012  #12
Poland has forsaken the Jewish people, and yet still pretend to be pertinent to them I assure you they are not.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The Polish Jews I've spoken to do not share your sense of finality.

It is NOT like Israel and Palestine

I said India and Pakistan. Surely you see the analogy.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 649    
5 Jun 2012  #13
Lots of Jews in Poland = Kill them in Poland

Indeed.

I can imagine asking this question in a local ghetto (it's forbidden to ask such questions in UK schools, apparently) and getting a "maybe it's cuz dere wuz loads of Jews in Poland

innit?" response.

You would think that this was obvious even to the stupidest of Twitter-obsessed school-leavers.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
5 Jun 2012  #14
Don't dismiss Polish complicity. Suck it up, admit your past wrongdoings, admit there's still PLENTY of Poles that use the word "Jew" as an insult, and then we can all meet on a level field, and discuss things rationally. Before then, we can't.

The above attitude is a perfect example of what makes some people use the word "Jew" as an insult. I will not try to show you the error of your ways because honestly, I don't see the point. Your mind has been poisoned already. I hope you find enduring joy in nursing your biased viewpoint. :-/
sielakos - | 27    
5 Jun 2012  #15
Why, that was rather nasty. Were I Jon, I'd probably report you.

So you are saying that being called Gay Jew is a bad thing?
Or is it just being called Jew or Gay?

Monia didn't say anything bad about him just that he is gay jew, which i presume isn't something bad.
OP jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #16
The above attitude is a perfect example of what makes some people use the word "Jew"

The fact that I argued my point as an individual is a perfect example of what?? No, dear, the fact that you find it an acceptable example is in ITSELF proof of the a anti-semitism that has NO problems rearing its head at any perceived avatar that comes its way. I am not here to repair broken bridges. I'm not even interested in you accepting culpability or admitting the first thing about mistakes made. I'm simply pointing my finger at a country with a hood over her head, and saying, "You can remove it now, we already know who you are." You were anti-semitic, and you DID sacrifice Jews. And for what? You country got mauled and abused over and over again. Passed between two nations like a cheap slut. So your evil betrayal was for what? What did it gain you? A lifetime and more of obfuscating your guilt, which you still refuse to acknowledge. And are the Jews gone? Oh, yes, except for 8000 contrarians, whom are probably just there to **** you off. Did losing the talented, money-making Jews HELP your country become stronger, to fight the real enemies at your door? No. And again, that's on YOU.
rybnik 18 | 1,466    
5 Jun 2012  #17
And my elders never mentioned Poland

With respect, I find this very hard to believe. Unless your people belong to the Sephardim, not having heard about Poland, not even a word from within an Ashkenazi family? This is not plausible. I'm sure you were told something (maybe even some good things).
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,180    
  5 Jun 2012  #18
The above attitude is a perfect example of what makes some people use the word "Jew" as an insult.

True.

No, dear, the fact that you find it an acceptable example is in ITSELF proof of the a anti-semitism that has NO problems rearing its head at any perceived avatar that comes its way.

Aren't we all anit-semites :))) ?

You were anti-semitic, and you DID sacrifice Jews.

Oy vey !
OP jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #19
With respect, I find this very hard to believe. Unless your people belong to the Sephardim, not having heard about Poland, not even a word from within an Ashkenazi family? This is not plausible. I'm sure you were told something (maybe even some good things).

America Jews never forget their enemies, even once forgiven. Those with leverage must never supplied the fulcrum with which to exert it. That being said, Poland HAS no leverage. Hasn't HAD any, in quite some while. It's easy to dismiss us as bitter, and melodramatic. Clinging to old pains for current gain. These stones have been hurled at us, well, ever since it was popular to actually hurl real stones at us. Poland abandoned not just Jews. Poland about Polish Jews. Ergo, Poland abandoned HERSELF. We hold Poland with shame and pity in our hearts, not with anger.
sielakos - | 27    
  5 Jun 2012  #20
jasondmzk you are just person sick of hate.

But guess what there are almost no Jews in Poland, so there is no such thing like anti-semitism. There is no such thing as racism etc. And that is good. No target no bad thing waiting to happened.

For that matter there is a lot of bad thing i western countries, so go worry about them and **** off from Poland. We don't have any problems with any of those.

And about WWII you have to be very stupid to thing that a lot of poles would help Nazi or for that matter any Germans. Yea there were some, but guess what? It doesn't take many ppl to kill 100.

edit: And btw. that was long time ago, so nobody but Jews really care much about that ****. Yeah world don't care about Jews. You just want that **** to be important, but it isn't. Most of ppl that did bad thing to Jews are dead. So get over it.
OP jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #21
jasondmzk you are just person sick of hate.

I'm sick of practicality being an abstract concept, and the beleaguered reader instead deciding to name it "hate". I don't hate Poland. I've said it once, twice, maybe thirty times, now. I've no illusion that this will be the last, either.

And about WWII you have to be very stupid to thing that a lot of poles would help Nazi or for that matter any Germans

Any stupider than the Polish Home Army thinking the Reds "had their backs" during the Battle of Warsaw? No. When you have the Devil over for tea, you really oughtn't act surprised when he decides to stay for dinner.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
5 Jun 2012  #22
So your evil betrayal was for what? No. And again, that's on YOU.

More of the same attitude.

Some questions for you, then.
Why did most able-bodied young Jews trained in the use of arms choose to leave Poland for the Palestine just before the war? Why did they betray their elders, their poor, their children? (I have read about this in the memoirs of Marek Edelman himself).

Why did Jews choose to live in Poland in such huge numbers up to WW2? Nobody kept them there, you know.
What do you know about ŻEGOTA?

That's just for starters. I think you should really try to educate yourself before you start slinging mud at the memory of those who perished for a COMMON cause - saving lives. Not Jewish lives or gentile lives. HUMAN lives.
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
5 Jun 2012  #23
We hold Poland with shame and pity in our hearts, not with anger.

You are aware that the Poles brought the death camps to the attention of the American's and British in, what '43??.

The USA, the UK and American Jewery made a deliberate decision to do nothing. A few years ago the New York Times made a front page apology for hiding the Holocaust from America.

Blaming Poland, which was occupied and being systematical exterminated, for abandoning anyone is ridiculous.
OP jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #24
Why did most able-bodied young Jews trained in the use of arms choose to leave Poland for the Palestine just before the war?

Because it doesn't take a genius to know when the jig is up. By the 20's Poland had already put the squeeze on Jews, forcing them from their homes. Hitler didn't outlaw his first bagel until after '33. Your second question belies the first, but were I to guess, it's because the Jews in Poland were more loyal to their country than their country was to THEM.

What do you know about ŻEGOTA?

Of course there's groups, clandestine and threatened, that see the brutality around them, and feel compelled to do something about it. Those people are called heroes, and Poland had them too. Just not in any large enough numbers, or in government positions to ultimately halt the atrocities for all but a minor few.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,649    
5 Jun 2012  #25
admit there's still PLENTY of Poles that use the word "Jew" as an insult,

to be honest Jason I wouldn't take that seriously, it happens here in UK too, the word YID being thrown about meaning 'tight fisted' or 'Tottenham Hotspur supporter', it has become mostly devoid of any further meaning.

Of course it is probably outlawed now like other 'racist' words are, but that doesn't make any difference to the hatred that exists everywhere against one or group or another, it just drives it underground.

Also your OP is the equivalent of me going up to a 25 year old German and saying.."YOU bombed my granny's chipshop'.... I remember once in Munster being told that I (I!!!) had bombed the city. I was like, really, did I?

Additionally I would like to point out that millions of non Jews also died in those camps.
rybnik 18 | 1,466    
5 Jun 2012  #26
Poland about Polish Jews. Ergo, Poland abandoned HERSELF. We hold Poland with shame and pity in our hearts, not with anger.

you sound angry not full of pity. I'm starting to pity you. I'm afraid you've been sold a bill of goods and are now realizing, to your dismay, that some of it might be untrue.
gdyniaguy 1 | 282    
5 Jun 2012  #27
Monia.....

I object to being branded a 'gay jew'... i am a Methodist Protestant and have a Polish girlfriend and live, work and pay a large amount of taxes in Poland so the goverment can squander it on educating people like you. Nothing Gay or Jewish their... and ps... who is Harry? Somebody else who spoke the truth that you can't understand.

As for what is positive about Poland i think the HOMOPHOBES and ANTI SEMITES like yourself are the reason why the BBC are having a field day

As for the rest of your rubbish...the Jews will never forget what happened in Poland as the Poles don't forget their past. Only you think the Jewish past less important then yours.

Living surrounded for a lifetime by grey concrete blocks and old communist school books must have seriuosly f'd up your mind Monia. If you need any help understanding anything let me know!
OP jasondmzk    
5 Jun 2012  #28
The USA, the UK and American Jewery made a deliberate decision to do nothing. A few years ago the New York Times made a front page apology for hiding the Holocaust from America.

If the Times hid it, then how could we have made a decision to ignore it?! This is mularkey at it's... mularkiest. My grandfather was AT Dachau, as an American Soldier, the day it was liberated. And he, his C.O. and everyone else in the platoon was FLOORED by what they found there. Maybe some in the C.I.A knew, maybe some of the brass. But we did not. Sure, Poland was in dire straights. It was desperate. The boat was sinking. And what did they throw out of the payload, along with the luggage and the dead weight? Their Jewish Population. Who did they blame when the Nazi's left? The Jewish Population. When the Reds started giving you heavy hints on how to perfect your borscht, who did you blame? I think you get the idea. You blamed them then, and you blame one now, namely me. For not GOING WITH THE FLOW. You accuse me of hate and not truly being loyal to Poland. HRMMM... why does THAT sound familiar? Oh. Yeah.
strzyga 2 | 993    
5 Jun 2012  #29
in government positions to ultimately halt the atrocities for all but a minor few.

What government are you talking about? The General Government?
The area was not a puppet state; its rulers had no goal of collaborating with Poles throughout the war, regardless of their political orientation. The Nazi authorities made a determined effort to avoid even mentioning the name "Poland" in government correspondence. The only exception to this were the German-backed banknotes and coins (called 'zloty' and 'grosz') printed in 1940 in which the word was used for propaganda purposes. The government and administration of the General Government was composed entirely of Germans, with the intent that the area was eventually to become an ethnic German province.[4] According to Heim ins Reich initiative the only locals remaining were to be those of German descent.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Government

You really have no idea, do you?
Ironside 47 | 9,338    
5 Jun 2012  #30
Why, that was rather nasty.

Are you surprised ? What kind of nonsensitive ignorant or/and malicious creature would wrote something like the OP wrote?
Are you surprised in the slightest that a long line of your breed (a breed like you,) make people snapping at everything that moves?
Your pocking an open wound and if you get slapped you act surprised - if you are really surprised it means that you are simpleton !

Ignorant at that about Poland's and Poles fate during and after WWII. I say ignorant because nobody who would learn even a bit about the subject would come up with such ungraceful and the baroque point of view.

To make you comprehend what your "view" means for Poles - Jews deserved their fate during WWII because of their role in supporting Anglo-Saxon grip over the glob.

Pleasant read? Come and write some more haughty excuses for you being a tool !

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